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Crime & Punishment

 
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So long, and thanks for all the isk

First post
Author
Lord Razpataz
Devils Rejects 666
The Devil's Warrior Alliance
#1 - 2016-04-28 10:15:02 UTC
First I want to say.. yes.. I got the bitter vet syndrome.

But as a feeble attempt I want to reach out to you guys in C&P.
Especially to the fellow Highsec mercs and their employers.

As the leader of Devils I've been around for 5-6 years operating as a highsec merc.
In this time I've seen the merc community in HS in a downward spiral, degenerating year after year.
More Mercs have started to mass dec, it now seem like its more or less local thugs hanging around on street corners harassing people passing by. (yes, bad reference, but I'll get back to this one)

CCP has always spoken highly of content creators who make emergent gameplay in Eve, and the Merc community is one of them.
It's a profession that in fact was promoted "Be a mercenary" by CCP in the past (just before the Crimewatch change I believe) but when released they brought us a broken bounty system and killrights. Then quickly changed the promo to "Be a bounty hunter".
I would actually love to see CCP giving the mercenary community abit more tools instead of taking them away.

Devils have always had a relatively low wardec count and offered a more focused service.
This has unfortunately burned out alot of guys over the years as old school hunting takes alot of effort. With the low wardec count my guys could not sit and wait in hubs for them to show up,
They actually had to add all wartargets to watchlist, run locates, scout and then move to the targets location to get a kill. Even if it ment flying to the other side of highsec.

Now with the recent "buddylist" change CCP have removed what I think is a crucial tool to actually be able to play this emergent gameplay
At the moment we are chasing ghosts... Running locates and sending alts to their location is not viable option anymore. (If you think it is.. I dont think you know how the current locator mechanics work.)
Most of the time my guys are now playing with people who are not even online.

Now back to my point and the bad reference.

As an Employer would you go for something like this:
"Yeah, I'll take your money and just hang in populated areas.. waiting for one of your targets to stumble into our turf"
Or would you like your Merc say something in the lines of this:
"Yeah, I'll take the contract, we will add them to watchlist and hunt when online, We will kill them when they least expect it"

I do have to say that I'm just focused on one of the services provided by merc community... but its a crucial one.
I'm suprised that so few of us (mercs) are actually bitching about this change, It speaks volumes in my opinion..
But then again... As an employer looking for hub/pipe denial or structure bashing you will still have plenty options to choose from.
Only thing is that its easy to avoid hubs and pipes.. and carebear in peace on the outskirts of empire even under multiple wardecs.
Is this what the Merc commity in highsec have boiled down to? Turf wars and picking low hanging fruit?

With the current state of eve I cant with good conscience take on a contract except for structure bashing and there is more obvious choices then hiring a small merc group for that.
I know this sound kinda like tears and rants from a bitter vet, maybe it is?
As of this moment Devils are closing down the merc business until we are sure we actually can provide the service asked of us.
We will still be around tho..

Good luck o/
Dilligafmofo
The Branded Few
#2 - 2016-04-28 10:19:20 UTC
I think you nailed it bud.

Hi sec merc work was fun, full of content, now it's just a matter of who can entertain their troops the longest in hubs.

I feel your pain.
Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight
The Devil's Warrior Alliance
#3 - 2016-04-28 10:24:00 UTC
agreed, we will not become hub humping degenerates .

Solonius Rex
F0RCED ENTRY
Solyaris Chtonium
#4 - 2016-04-28 10:31:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Solonius Rex
Yeah, buddy list ****** everyone up. Such a stupid system.

But honestly, i have no idea how to spice up the Merc system. Bounties are utterly useless, but its hard to impliment a bounty system when anyone can put a bounty on anyone.

Any ideas?

EDIT:

My idea is that there should be a bounty hunter license that needs to be paid, and when a bounty reaches a certain amount, any bounty hunter can hunt down and claim that amount.
Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight
The Devil's Warrior Alliance
#5 - 2016-04-28 10:35:50 UTC
Solonius Rex wrote:

Any ideas?


Locator agents not running on offline players would do it for me. id be happily back to work just with that
Solonius Rex
F0RCED ENTRY
Solyaris Chtonium
#6 - 2016-04-28 10:43:18 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Solonius Rex wrote:

Any ideas?


Locator agents not running on offline players would do it for me. id be happily back to work just with that


Or better yet, locator agents tell you if they are online or not, and if not, when they were last online.
Omar Alharazaad
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#7 - 2016-04-28 10:49:26 UTC
With potentially several hundred WT's you really do need the locator to actually return a fail result for an offline player... otherwise you're back to wasting a couple million per hour chasing ghosts.

Come hell or high water, this sick world will know I was here.

gnshadowninja
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#8 - 2016-04-28 11:01:29 UTC
This thread has 100% full support from me as I too have been in the high sec merc worj for 5-6 years now.
I used to love logging on and adding a bunch to then find them hiding away in their golem in the deep dark ends of space, this has been reduced to sending an alt through 100's of different systems hoping that i may bump into someone.

I think what didnt make it easier is that where they nerfed the watclist they didnt revamp the locates to suit.
Tyyler DURden
Mordechai and Sons Distribution Co.
#9 - 2016-04-28 11:02:54 UTC
Sorry to see you guys go, seems you're one of the last merc groups out there with some integrity.

Tyyler DURden says "use soap"

Adriel Malakai
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#10 - 2016-04-28 11:32:27 UTC
This thread is pretty spot on. The reason you haven't seen much bitching from us, is because we've been AWOL with little intention of coming back. At this point, we pretty much only log on for our jihads or the occasional roams. We keep eyes on the game, hoping for a miracle to revitalize it, but it seems that things just continue to degrade.
Chandelin
Kernite Kollectors
#11 - 2016-04-28 12:00:09 UTC
I understand your point regarding the watch list.

but with multiple wars changing each week just keeping up with adding them did my nut in, especially having your alt add them too.

There are a few ways I hunt them down when im at war. ( this isnt being cocky but just what I do)

1. Most corporations have a central point or if there from null and low sec a central point of entry into high sec.
most chars very rarely change there path even at war so that dude you saw in that blingy ship even at war will carry on the same way.

2. ZZkill and the other one when its working are a good source of previous places of where wt have been and possibly will be.

3. Main missions hubs IE the sister have always pulled chars in no matter if there at war or not. However the clever ones evac from there and go to a mission system in the middle of nowhere. catching them on the move if your tracking them prior to war helps.

I do understand that the offline online thing is a bit of a **** but at the end of the day mercs get paid to either do hub denial or hunt the feckers down and make them cry a lil. I dont mind flying alts around trying to find war targets as sometimes you might get more that you bargained for.

Typical point I decd a corp that was already at war flying a nightmare. However after setting them red my alt was flying around and found a mack pilot who was using a orca in a diff corp. So i dec the orca corp too. I kill the mack then go back there the next day and kill the orca then the nightmare.

I would rather be flying all around eve than sitting in a station banging out locators. i myself am in a small corp and in wars its easy for people to see me online, however not any more so it does benefit me alot

Its a shame to see you go though. Fly safe to all of your alliance in what ever you do next
Dom Arkaral
Bannheim
Belligerent Undesirables
#12 - 2016-04-28 12:11:53 UTC
Sad to see another solid group stop :/
CCP killed specialized hunters with the buddy list...
It was imo the best kind of merc jobs to do, instead of sitting on the pipe 24/7 like all the bigger mercs do. (No offense, but there's no challenge whatsoever in camping perimeter or niarja)

I hope to see you guys around, and hopefully CCP makes a compromise (20 man and less in corp - access to watchlist, more than that - no access)

That would bring back the playstyle that got me into merc work, and I'd gladly go back to it (like many imo)

Tear Gatherer. Quebecker. Has no Honer. Salt Harvester.

Broadcast 4 Reps -- YOU ARE NOT ALONE, EVER

Instigator of the First ISD Thunderdome

CCL Loyalist

Areen Sassel
Dirac Angestun Gesept
#13 - 2016-04-28 12:23:38 UTC
Solonius Rex wrote:
My idea is that there should be a bounty hunter license that needs to be paid, and when a bounty reaches a certain amount, any bounty hunter can hunt down and claim that amount.


This has the same issue as the pre-Retribution bounty system; claim it with an alt. (Unless you're keeping the percentage of kill value, in which case it's just as broken as the current system).
jack1974
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#14 - 2016-04-28 12:51:49 UTC  |  Edited by: jack1974
No worries friends, I plan on speaking to the 4(actually 5) CSMs we just got into office about high sec mechanics. Quite convenient right? I expect the path to be a long and hard one, especially with CCPs focus on citadels, but I do believe a mechanical change will happen.

I'd also like to note; deccing my alt corp does not grant you any brownie points for the discussions I plan on having. As the great super overlord spinmaster heil leader of the north Mittani would say, Welcome to the Meta.
Valkin Mordirc
#15 - 2016-04-28 12:54:19 UTC
Sad to see another corp folding up. But I can hardly say I didn't see it happening. You hit it pretty spot on.
#DeleteTheWeak
Starrakatt
Celtic Anarchy
Dead Terrorists
#16 - 2016-04-28 12:55:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Starrakatt
Sorry to see your services go guys, I entirely agree with your point, having done this for a long while myself and still having an alt in a major Hisec merc group. I hate camping. Hunting specific contracted targets is pretty much dead, because of Buddylist.

As for not being more vocal: A lot of us have been when Buddylist was announced... And all we got was a deafening silence from CCP.

I think most got tired of shouting in the void.

I am disapointed.
Valkin Mordirc
#17 - 2016-04-28 13:13:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Valkin Mordirc
Starrakatt wrote:

As for not being more vocal: A lot of us have been when Buddylist was announced... And all we got was a deafening silence from CCP.

I think most got tired of shouting in the void.

I am disapointed.



I've pretty vocal about it very last couple years. Unfortunately it's just that. Yelling into a void.

We said that you're okay with watchlist changes, as long as locate agents are buffed to help, and it's deaf ears.

I've been saying that with every nerf to emergent gameplay, Highsec get staler and staler every patch.

I've been saying Wardec Mechanics need to change to allow for more diverse gameplay

Every time CCP ignores it and treks along with its pacification of Highsec and ignores the some of the people who brought them to the top.

In the current era, the guiding hand social club wouldn't have happened, Villains such as Kane and Monk, can no longer be there. These along with a numerous of other stories brought be to EVE. And the Removal of these things are taking me away from EVE.

I don't awox, I don't steal. I don't spy. But the possibility of it is incredibly intriguing and makes EVE a better place. However it's seems CCP would rather push profits and get more and more people in the name of
Quote:
"content "
. It feels like they no longer care.

Are wardeccers, Mercenaries and AWOXers a niche part of EVE? Yeah. But that doesn't mean we should be stomped out because B-Tac-R.

It's utterly and annoyingly, aggravating, frustrating, compoundly idiotic and has pretty much forced my entire group in an inactive state, or shoved off the null/low sec, because Highsec Content as dried up to the point it's becoming ash.
#DeleteTheWeak
Lady Ayeipsia
BlueWaffe
#18 - 2016-04-28 13:13:40 UTC
Random thought, would it be worth the effort to offer services to faction warfare corps? For example, pay us X and we'll guard gates while your faction runs the plexes? Or pay us X and we'll Dec and hunt faction corps in their hi sec system your militia can't easily reach?

Or... Start including a form of espionage with the contract. Pay X, we'll get a rookie in group Y, use him to add corp members to their watch list and Dec in a week or two?

Obviously not perfect, but something you could maybe offer?
Starrakatt
Celtic Anarchy
Dead Terrorists
#19 - 2016-04-28 13:28:21 UTC
Lady Ayeipsia wrote:
Random thought, would it be worth the effort to offer services to faction warfare corps? For example, pay us X and we'll guard gates while your faction runs the plexes?
Mercs specialised on hunting won't do that. Plex runners won't do it either because taht would mean handing their income to the mercs.

Quote:
Or pay us X and we'll Dec and hunt faction corps in their hi sec system your militia can't easily reach?
These kind of things already happens, but often means gate camping and catch on their way to lowsec.

Quote:
Or... Start including a form of espionage with the contract. Pay X, we'll get a rookie in group Y, use him to add corp members to their watch list and Dec in a week or two?
Espionage is already quite rampant in FW, and Watchlist is dead, remember?

Deccing FW corps/alliances and camping their Hisec staging systems (such as they are, often trade hubs) is already done by most mercs that don't sit exclusively on trade hubs/pipes. We do get some content, though FW is mostly about frigates, so that is limited. But doable. But it is still camping, mostly.
Rias Bane
Lightdrummer Industries
Commonwealth Vanguard
#20 - 2016-04-28 14:15:46 UTC
This is a sad reality, I've done the Merc thing for 3 years now and have found myself increasingly camping because hunting has become so inefficient, there's no way to be certain of target quantity or quality short of clairvoyance.

I have always dabbled in all aspects of being a merc because some clients want structures hit others want movement disrupted but the work that is truly worth the name mercenary is the hunting, and in many cases that is what a client wants and expects but the buddy list change has lead to this atrophying.

And to see that this change has brought about the end of a respected merc group (at least as it is) is genuinely saddening.

I shall continue to hunt but what it means now is I spend more time on google than in game...not really why I subscribe :/

A sad day...sad sad day.
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