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Can not decide what Race (Solved)

Author
Aelle Vane
Doomheim
#1 - 2015-03-31 15:58:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Aelle Vane
on 7th of April i will begin my EVE Online Career and knowing myself, i will not see the light of day for the next few months.

But i keep changing my mind every 5 minutes on which Race(Ships) and Weapons i will work on first so i can do Both PVE and PVP with a Corp.

I Have Managed to narrow it down to Amarr and Caldari (Gallente are cool but i don't like Hybrids) (Rusty/Sun Panel race are just yuck lol)

I Need your advice and Opinions on ships/Weapons at this stage in the game so i can finally decide which road i will pick.

*******************
(I will be Gallente but i want to train into 1 of these)

Amarr:

I Love Lasers and the idea of Armor tanking but being limited to just 2 Damage Types can be a problem and i'm sure being in Gallente space can effect me later on when fighting stronger NPCs but i also read that Lasers are good in PVP and Armor is more welcome then Shields because At the moment Gallente are top dogs in PVP and they use Armor. (I Don't Like Drones)

Problem: The Thing that is putting me off going with Amarr is the Stealth Bomber... I Love the idea of the Stealth Bomber but the Amarr 1 is ugly as hell so i would prefer to go with the Caldari or Gallente but how much time would i lose training for another race's Stealth Bomber.


*********

Caldari:

I Like Missiles because of the Range, Damage and the fact that you have all 4 damage types but i have read many times that Missiles arnt used in PVP because of the travel time.

*********

- I Know i could train both but i want to work on 1 first so i can get straight into big ISK Making and PVP with a Corp soooo i really need some Opinions on.

Missiles & Lasers

Armor & Shields

Caldari & Amarr (Ships)

Caldari & Amarr in Gallente Space.

*********

Opinions on Ships at this stage in the Game.

- Raven and Navy Issue Raven

- Drake

- Oracle

- Absolution

-Abaddon

- Talos

-Kronos

(Sorry if this is alot to ask but i have been changing my mind several times a day and with only a week to go until i start my main character i would really like to make a final Decision
Azda Ja
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#2 - 2015-03-31 16:06:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Azda Ja
You are aware that your starting race and faction choices are purely aesthetic right? You can train into anything on any character. Pick whatever race you find mot interesting aesthetically, or roleplaying wise and train into whatever ships you like.

There are useful ships in every class, as well as every race, if you focus on combat, PVE or PVP, you're going to be cross training at some point.

EDIT: Since skills and what to train for are giving you a headache take a look at this blog post, and this recently bumped forum thread.

http://blog.beyondreality.se/Newbie-skill-plan-2

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5510948#post5510948

The plan I linked is great for a newbie unsire of what kind of ship they want to specialize in initially, it gives you a broad base to start with at an 'ok' level, deviate and specialize to taste. The thread goes deeper into EVE's skill system and dispels some common misconceptions.

Grrr.

Mike Azariah
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2015-03-31 16:12:11 UTC
What was said above is true, you may start out with one racial type but eventually you will train them all. There are pirate faction ships that demand dual race skills to be decently flown.

Specialization is for insects

m

Mike Azariah  ┬──┬ ¯|(ツ)

Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight
The Devil's Warrior Alliance
#4 - 2015-03-31 17:17:11 UTC
It's in your interest to cross train at this point.
train all the frigates, small/light weapon/drone systems, shield and armour skills to 3 (or at least the things you like the sound of)
have some fun and see what you like.
specializing takes time and I don't recommend it until you know you actually like the role.
L'ouris
Have Naught Subsidiaries
#5 - 2015-03-31 19:38:44 UTC
My advise is dependent on what your immediate goals are:

- Want to be solo effective in PVP very soon and don't mind having to start over to branch out (guns)? -----> Caldari Rocket Kestrel

- Want to be solo effective in PVP (soonish) and would rather have a steeper learning curve now and easy transition later? ---? amar executioner.


- PVE is very possible with any race, so don't let that color your opinion too much at this stage. That said, Caldari missile ships are mission easy buttons ( that can be very bad too if you bore easily ).
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2015-03-31 19:39:56 UTC
Aelle Vane wrote:

Amarr:

I Love Lasers and the idea of Armor tanking but being limited to just 2 Damage Types can be a problem and i'm sure being in Gallente space can effect me later on when fighting stronger NPCs but i also read that Lasers are good in PVP and Armor is more welcome then Shields because At the moment Gallente are top dogs in PVP and they use Armor. (I Don't Like Drones)

Problem: The Thing that is putting me off going with Amarr is the Stealth Bomber... I Love the idea of the Stealth Bomber but the Amarr 1 is ugly as hell so i would prefer to go with the Caldari or Gallente but how much time would i lose training for another race's Stealth Bomber.


Lasers in gallente space isn't all that bad. Thermal is most gallente affiliated rats' secondary weakness and EM generally the second strongest so you're at a small disadvantage but not huge.

Armour is preferred in larger fleets for a variety of reasons, ones I won't list them all but it's a well-known fact and has been practised over years.

As for stealth bombers, Frigate 5 is a short train and you just need that skill, plus the covert ops skill to fly a race's bomber.

Aelle Vane wrote:
Caldari:

I Like Missiles because of the Range, Damage and the fact that you have all 4 damage types but i have read many times that Missiles arnt used in PVP because of the travel time.


Missiles aren't used in large fleet battles and rarely above battlecruiser sized ships. This is due to a variety of reasons as well, however missiles are extremely potent in the small to medium hull sizes and 90% of fights in eve will be using those hulls.

Aelle Vane wrote:
- I Know i could train both but i want to work on 1 first so i can get straight into big ISK Making and PVP with a Corp soooo i really need some Opinions on.

Missiles & Lasers

Armor & Shields

Caldari & Amarr (Ships)

Caldari & Amarr in Gallente Space.

*********

Opinions on Ships at this stage in the Game.

- Raven and Navy Issue Raven

- Drake

- Oracle

- Absolution

-Abaddon

- Talos

-Kronos

(Sorry if this is alot to ask but i have been changing my mind several times a day and with only a week to go until i start my main character i would really like to make a final Decision



Missiles are great for pve, selectable damage types with the addition of not having to worry about tracking mechanics = truly new player friendly. Only downsides to it are basically making sure your application to small targets isn't too poor. This requires some ewar modules and specific rigs but it's really not that big a deal.

Lasers are great also, but obviously limited in the ways you're already aware of. They really do excel when you're hitting EM weak rats though.

Armour and shields both have their advantages and disadvantages. All have viable ships to be used with, most of the time it's obvious which one should be used, sometimes not.

Caldari ships are the "heavy shields" kind of style. You'll find that they're on the slower end but regularly have bonuses to shield resistance and in general have higher shield capacity than most other ships.

Amarr is the same but for armour, slow and heavy but very resilient.

Obviously exceptions are present, but this is the general trend.

Raven/navy issue: great pve boats, rarely seen in pvp due to large missiles being extremely slow and don't apply well to small targets.

Drake: fantastic starter ship, big hp means it leaves a lot of room for error.

Oracle, bit more specialised, medium hull with large weapons means a lot of DPS but very fragile tank. Can be used as snipers or just raw DPS if you feel you're safe.

Absolution, extremely strong laser platform versatile and powerful.

abaddon, limited uses these days especially now since battleships are less and less used.

talos, same thing as the oracle, however it's tracking bonus allows it to engage smaller targets comfortably

Kronos, rare to see one of these since other marauders are more useful



Aelle Vane
Doomheim
#7 - 2015-03-31 23:37:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Aelle Vane
Thanks for all the replies

I May still change my mind several times before the 7th but i think i am leaning more towards Lasers and Amarr ships.

As much as i like Missiles i don't want to focus on them at the start because i hope to join a UK Based Corp and enjoy the game with people rather then alone.

*********

I Have been using Hybrid's on Gallente ships and found it quite enjoyable so i do have some questions.

What is the maximum Range i can hope to get with Blasters. (All main Gallente ships)

Are Railguns good at this point?

Do Gallente have to use Drones to be effective?

*********

The Absolution makes me wonna play Amarr and use Lasers and i will most likely end up playing them because of what (Tsukino Stareine) Said so u may have solved my nightmare... I Hope lol.


Last Question: What is the best ship to use as Amarr with Scorch ammo that i have heard so much about?
Phig Neutron
Rubicon Cubism
#8 - 2015-03-31 23:45:49 UTC
Aelle Vane wrote:
Last Question: What is the best ship to use as Amarr with Scorch ammo that i have heard so much about?

Any pulse laser boat. The Armageddon, for example.
You might want to look into the T3 destroyer, Confessor. I don't know if it's usually pulse fit or beam fit, but it's quite overpowered now and not a hard train.
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#9 - 2015-03-31 23:57:25 UTC
At the risk of being flamed by critics that rightly suggest specializing is a good training path for rookies to consider....

I want to point out that it isn't the only possible training path in EVE.

What training path you decide on is entirely up to you!



Example: I myself am a jack-of-all-trades, i.e. I'm a non-specialist. I happily accept that I'll lag behind specialists in the depth of their training, as the cost of allowing me to do a wider range of different things.

Without attribute implants, and with default attributes (i.e. really sub-optimal and slow, so it can be done faster than this):

* Time to train all races of T1 frigate / destroyer / cruiser / battlecruiser / battleship to level 3: 17d 20h 52s
* Time to train T1 small / medium / large / hybrid / laser / projectile turrets & support skills to level 3: 13d 11h 39m 30s
* Time to train T1 rockets / heavy assault / torpedoes / light / heavy / cruise missiles & support skills to level 3: 12d 23h 6m 40s

Of course you'll want other skills too, for fitting rigs, defenses, using drones, and such.

Still in 18 + 14 + 13 = 45 days or less, one could be using a large number of ships, including all Navy and Pirate ships.
Aelle Vane
Doomheim
#10 - 2015-04-01 00:28:26 UTC
Thanks again for replies.

Tau Cabalander - Lol Wow that is awesome that you know that.

My plan at the moment is to focus on Amarr ships so i can use them how they are meant to be used.

Once i feel like i have learnt everything for Amarr ships i will then work on my Stealth Bomber which i'm guessing will mean unlocking Ships for either Caldari or Gallente and increasing my Missile skills overall.
*******

Question:

Manticore or Nemesis? which is better at the moment.

********

If anyone has anymore Opinion's on ships and weapons i would love to hear them.

(Not that is matters but i am a wallet warrior and ISK will not be a problem for me so if you wish to post Ship builds that i can copy and paste into word or somit for later dates that would be great. :) )


L'ouris
Have Naught Subsidiaries
#11 - 2015-04-01 00:36:41 UTC
Re: bombers

My guess is that for 99% of all Eve players, stealth bomber is driven by racial frigate of choice rather than a specific bomber.

Im sure that some specialized groups will be able to go into the minutia differences, pros cons etc between each one, but most others simply need to know what type bomb the rest of the fleet is loading.

My pref is manticore for the ease of fitting. But it's damage is generally considered to be subpar as kinetic only.
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#12 - 2015-04-01 01:10:40 UTC
If you stick to small and medium and especially if you just stick to cruiser and lower you can train all 4 races in not too much time at all. Battleships and large weapons take a long time. I would stay general and try several different ships out. Once you figure out what you like then you can specialize. Level 3 is good enough for now.

Want to talk? Join Cara's channel in game: House Forelli

Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight
The Devil's Warrior Alliance
#13 - 2015-04-01 01:15:35 UTC
actually amarr have some glorious missile ships,
the Sacrilege and Legion (tec II and III) being notable ones.

again though, cross training is easy for you at this point,a couple of days at most, for me it would take weeks if not months to do so.
Lost Greybeard
Drunken Yordles
#14 - 2015-04-01 02:01:54 UTC
Living in Gallente space, it will be slightly easier/cheaper to find Amarr-compatible gear than Caldari, typically, though not by a broad margin. On the other hand, it's usually slightly easier/cheaper to find Caldari _ships_.

Beyond that, I'd pick based more on PvE tanking than anything else. If you prefer active control/management of your tank go Amarr, if you prefer tanking based more on building stuff, turning it on, and forgetting about it go Caldari. Both weapons systems work fine in Gallente missions and PvP; you'll run into issues with lasers when Angels missions drop, but Amarr have missile boats as well for backup.

The Stealth Bombers are almost literally identical apart from favored damage type, and that's generally selected based on target and/or what you already have skill-wise.

Basically the short version here is flip a coin, you can always eventually train both if you later decide you chose 'wrong'. The important thing early on is that you pick one and stick with it a bit, not _which_ one you pick.
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#15 - 2015-04-01 02:37:03 UTC
Aelle Vane wrote:
Tau Cabalander - Lol Wow that is awesome that you know that.

EVEmon is my co-pilot. Blink
erg cz
ErgoDron
#16 - 2015-04-01 07:31:01 UTC
1. You will stare at your ship A LOT. So I decided the race by look of the ships and I liked most Gallente and Amarr. Caldari looks like Lego toys (partly fixed in last few patches); Minmatar like garbage, that is pulled together by adhesive tape.
2. If you aim to combat PVE you need to be able to put different kinds of damage. Drones is Gallente / Amarr way to do this , missiles is caldari / minamtar. But true drone race is gallente, true missile race are caldari. Mix of both gives you Rattlesnake - one of the very best PvE battleships.
3. Amarr weapons do not require additional ammo. That means instant adaption of range (crystalls swap in no time) and zero ammunition costs after you buy your first set of standard crystalls.

Those are best PvE battleships so far, IMHO:
Maradeurs (specialized for missions, but long time to train)
Machariel (close up brawler, very demanding for personal combat skill of the pilot; lots of adrenaline)
Rattlesnake (sniper fit with missiles and sentry drones can do up to 900 DPS at 100 km range even with not all V skills)
Dominix (cheap and versatile, very effective sniper platform)

Since expensive ships tends to be attacked even in high sec, I stay with Dominix. With its unique bonus to optimal range of sentry drones it can target and fire even from 150 km and it will still in optimal of Warden II sentry drones. You can put up to 3 tachyon beam lasers there so your drones do not need to switch to frigate ships so often. If frigate has to burn 150 km toward you even the limited damage and awefull tracking of unbonused large turrets can deal with them (they have papar thin tank any way)

Be aware, that there is no good amarr mission agents in gallente space, but quite a few caldari agents. If you ever decide to join PvP the only mechanism, that gives you at least illusion of match making is factional warfare. So it will gallente / minmatar or amarr / caldari space you will have to stay in.
Justin Zaine
#17 - 2015-04-01 12:11:59 UTC
If you think that the Amarr bomber is the worst looking, keep in mind that it's generally considered to be one of the two best bombers (Caldari and Gallente being the 3rd and 4th best but not necessarily in that order.)


Gallente: IMO they are the best "Covert" race. If you're interested in cloaky PVP then Gallente is the way to go, for the following reasons: Proteus, Nemesis, Sin. Gallente Recons (Lach and Arazu) are pretty mean and are great in the Hunter Killer role for blops fleets with the 40+km point.

They also have a fantastic frigate lineup with the Tristan, Incursus and the Comet among others.


Amarr: They're strong all-around. They armor tank like Gallente, use drones like Gallente and also have some good covert ships, but their T3 (Legion) sucks in that role. It is, however, great with HAM's.

IMO Amarr truly shine in the larger ship classes. Archon is king of Carriers, they have a beastly BS lineup with the Abaddon, Apoc and Armageddon, and the Avatar is the best Titan. Silly of me to even bring that up in a noob help thread but still, gotta mention it.

If you like the idea of cap warfare, the Pilgrim and Curse are great for solo hunting.

They also have great cruisers and a couple good frigates such as the Slicer and Executioner.


All in all, Gallente and Amarr skills complement each other well. Each race is in a strong position at the moment and the areas where you find one race lacking, the other does a good job of making up for it.

He will win who knows when to fight and when not to fight.

He will win who, prepared himself, waits to take the enemy unprepared.

Bastion Arzi
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#18 - 2015-04-01 12:58:22 UTC
just go caldari? cross train l8r
Aelle Vane
Doomheim
#19 - 2015-04-01 14:46:56 UTC
I Have ruled out Caldari.

Reason: While i love Missiles i feel that in Gallente space PVP Battles small or Big will be made up of Armored ships so i would be the odd 1 out using shields and because Missiles are not as welcome in PVP. (I Will still work on Stealth Bombers but after i have trained the skills needed to fly the ships i want)

*********

Saying that i have not 100% ruled out my problem lol... i still love the Amarr and lasers but i have also been playing with Gallente and Railguns so i do have some questions.

*********
Questions:

Gellente:

Do i need to use Drones to be most effective?

Railguns:

What are they like in PVP?

What is the kind of range i can hope to get?

Are they welcome in Small Gang PVP?

Blasters:

What kind of range can i hope to get?

Are they welcome in small Gang PVP?

How do you take on people that have insane range while you don't?


Caldari:

What are the 2 Damage types the Caldari rats are weak against? (Just incase the corp i join is based in Caldari)






Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight
The Devil's Warrior Alliance
#20 - 2015-04-01 15:24:52 UTC
Aelle Vane wrote:
PVP Battles small or Big will be made up of Armored ships so i would be the odd 1 out using shields and because Missiles are not as welcome in PVP.


none of that is true Blink
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