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A Few Modest Questions for CCP Sreegs

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Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#1 - 2012-10-08 03:53:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Darth Gustav
CCP Sreegs, has there been a substantial shift in the numbers of high-sec bots you're catching since the release of the mining barge buff?

Would you say, based on your response to the above, the threat of ganking was a deterrent to potential mining bot operators?

If you aren't seeing more bots in high-sec and the numbers have changed substantially since Fanfest, is it reasonable for players to ask for an update? I ask this because the new demographics for botting may explain how a less time-sensitive lower-risk form of AFK PVE is healthier for the game in high-sec than its equivalent elsewhere.

Thanks in advance for any responses you can provide.

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises
Otherworld Empire
#2 - 2012-10-08 07:05:58 UTC
We can hope to get answers to this soon, I'd also like to see some info on the work towards spambots. But so far silence Sad

/c

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Eternus8lux8lucis
Guardians of the Gate
RAZOR Alliance
#3 - 2012-10-08 07:11:54 UTC
Posting cuz Im curious if theyll give us an answer. Good questions.

Have you heard anything I've said?

You said it's all circling the drain, the whole universe. Right?

That's right.

Had to end sometime.
rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
#4 - 2012-10-08 07:13:51 UTC
Well there is a blogger who scans the website for botters. He hasn't posted any of them whining about gankers really. They did whine alot when sreegs launched his assault on them.

On his latest one, he said they complained about people reporting them, or other botters reporting them when they move into another botters territory.

Here is his site. The Nosy Gamer, go ask him if he has read them whining about gankers and how much a threat they are.

Signature removed for inappropriate language - CCP Eterne
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#5 - 2012-10-08 07:19:50 UTC
rodyas wrote:
Well there is a blogger who scans the website for botters. He hasn't posted any of them whining about gankers really. They did whine alot when sreegs launched his assault on them.

On his latest one, he said they complained about people reporting them, or other botters reporting them when they move into another botters territory.

Here is his site. The Nosy Gamer, go ask him if he has read them whining about gankers and how much a threat they are.

I posted an interrogatory comment. We'll see what comes of it.

Frankly I'm much more interested in what CCP Sreegs has to say on the matter.

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
Inquisitor Kitchner
The Executives
#6 - 2012-10-08 09:44:26 UTC
rodyas wrote:
Well there is a blogger who scans the website for botters. He hasn't posted any of them whining about gankers really. They did whine alot when sreegs launched his assault on them.

On his latest one, he said they complained about people reporting them, or other botters reporting them when they move into another botters territory.

Here is his site. The Nosy Gamer, go ask him if he has read them whining about gankers and how much a threat they are.



Botters don't complain about gankers because the bots are programmed to warp off as soon as anyone else enters the asteroid belts. Or they were anyway, potentially there could be a botting increase and they don't warp off if they feel totally safe from regular ganking. If I was botting and I lost a 200m ship once every 4 months or so when someone did it "for luls" it wouldn't bother me too much.


On the other hand maybe it's easier for CCP to detect botters if they aren't fleeing every time someone enters the system hence the change P

"If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared." - Niccolo Machiavelli
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#7 - 2012-10-08 12:29:13 UTC
Darth Gustav wrote:
Would you say, based on your response to the above, the threat of ganking was a deterrent to potential mining bot operators?


As a human who partakes in mining, I would expect that the threat of ganking has a greater impact on the population of human miners. Thus I would expect that the introduction of the new barges has increased the population of human miners.

The claim of "fighting bots" has only ever been a rationalisation on the part of the gankers. Just own up to the fact that you enjoy hunting the lowest form of prey in the game.

Day 0 Advice for New Players
Ptraci
3 R Corporation
#8 - 2012-10-08 12:35:19 UTC
It's not fanfest yet.
Vertisce Soritenshi
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2012-10-08 12:59:02 UTC
Mara Rinn wrote:
Darth Gustav wrote:
Would you say, based on your response to the above, the threat of ganking was a deterrent to potential mining bot operators?


As a human who partakes in mining, I would expect that the threat of ganking has a greater impact on the population of human miners. Thus I would expect that the introduction of the new barges has increased the population of human miners.

The claim of "fighting bots" has only ever been a rationalisation on the part of the gankers. Just own up to the fact that you enjoy hunting the lowest form of prey in the game.

I would tend to agree with this sentiment. Mostly because the threat of being ganked for a bot is vastly different then the same threat for a player. A bot who can mine 23.5/7 can easily lose a ship and make up the difference that day where the player who may only have a few hours of time to play each day and is much more less efficient than the bot will take longer to make up the money lost by being ganked.

Bounties for all! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2279821#post2279821
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#10 - 2012-10-08 16:55:37 UTC
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:
Mara Rinn wrote:
Darth Gustav wrote:
Would you say, based on your response to the above, the threat of ganking was a deterrent to potential mining bot operators?


As a human who partakes in mining, I would expect that the threat of ganking has a greater impact on the population of human miners. Thus I would expect that the introduction of the new barges has increased the population of human miners.

The claim of "fighting bots" has only ever been a rationalisation on the part of the gankers. Just own up to the fact that you enjoy hunting the lowest form of prey in the game.

I would tend to agree with this sentiment. Mostly because the threat of being ganked for a bot is vastly different then the same threat for a player. A bot who can mine 23.5/7 can easily lose a ship and make up the difference that day where the player who may only have a few hours of time to play each day and is much more less efficient than the bot will take longer to make up the money lost by being ganked.

It will be interesting to see what CCP Sreegs has to say about it.

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
ctx2007
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#11 - 2012-10-08 17:07:56 UTC
I only mine once in a while usually when i,m shipbuilding, but i,m guessing many full time miners are pretty sick to death of bot fleets raping the belts and RMT.

Something more needs to be done i,m sure.

You only realise you life has been a waste of time, when you wake up dead.
Rosewalker
Khumaak Flying Circus
#12 - 2012-10-08 18:03:40 UTC
Darth Gustav wrote:

Frankly I'm much more interested in what CCP Sreegs has to say on the matter.


You didn't hurt my feelings Big smile But I hope that you don't demand that CCP Sreegs write the blog. CCP Stillman just gave a presentation at Eve Vegas that I hope he turns into a dev blog. That said, botters really don't post about getting ganked. There was a thread on one forum, but it stopped getting updated once Team Security really cranked their operations up. They do freak out about Hulkageddon, though.

Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:

I would tend to agree with this sentiment. Mostly because the threat of being ganked for a bot is vastly different then the same threat for a player. A bot who can mine 23.5/7 can easily lose a ship and make up the difference that day where the player who may only have a few hours of time to play each day and is much more less efficient than the bot will take longer to make up the money lost by being ganked.


According to the botting forums I read, there is a name for bots who mine 23.5/7: banned. People who bot for more than 8 hours a day and post about getting banned are usually mocked, which cuts down on the tears. Last week I read one bot dev tell the users of his courier bot to not use it more than 6 hours a day and to not run it more than two hours in a single session.

The Nosy Gamer - CCP Random: "hehe, falls under the category: nice try, but no. ;)"
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#13 - 2012-10-08 19:06:58 UTC
Rosewalker wrote:
Darth Gustav wrote:

Frankly I'm much more interested in what CCP Sreegs has to say on the matter.


You didn't hurt my feelings Big smile But I hope that you don't demand that CCP Sreegs write the blog. CCP Stillman just gave a presentation at Eve Vegas that I hope he turns into a dev blog. That said, botters really don't post about getting ganked. There was a thread on one forum, but it stopped getting updated once Team Security really cranked their operations up. They do freak out about Hulkageddon, though.

Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:

I would tend to agree with this sentiment. Mostly because the threat of being ganked for a bot is vastly different then the same threat for a player. A bot who can mine 23.5/7 can easily lose a ship and make up the difference that day where the player who may only have a few hours of time to play each day and is much more less efficient than the bot will take longer to make up the money lost by being ganked.


According to the botting forums I read, there is a name for bots who mine 23.5/7: banned. People who bot for more than 8 hours a day and post about getting banned are usually mocked, which cuts down on the tears. Last week I read one bot dev tell the users of his courier bot to not use it more than 6 hours a day and to not run it more than two hours in a single session.

This is pretty insightful.

It's certainly interesting to note they weren't happy about Hulkageddon.

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
Scatim Helicon
State War Academy
Caldari State
#14 - 2012-10-08 19:35:13 UTC
Darth Gustav wrote:
It's certainly interesting to note they weren't happy about Hulkageddon.

Were they happy about the recent EHP increase?

Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.
Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#15 - 2012-10-08 19:49:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Lin-Young Borovskova
ctx2007 wrote:
I only mine once in a while usually when i,m shipbuilding, but i,m guessing many full time miners are pretty sick to death of bot fleets raping the belts and RMT.

Something more needs to be done i,m sure.



How can you be sure of something you can't detect with player in game tools in the beginning???

There are a couple frustrated idiots in high sec not having the easy brainless gank available any more now bump some guy afk because they can, this is hilarious and actually demonstrates a lot about the nerdiness of some dudes.

They state you shouldn't have better or as much profits as them with their army of high sec alts: they just gank your ship before buff
Now they're completely mad because they need to invest in ships to gank you, therefore you're a bot, you can't have kids, things to do rl or whatever because THEY decided if you do'nt respond to their nerdiness they simply bump you out of the belt.

There's not much to say about this but only that if you really wanted to go or see the greatest concentration of stupid you couldn't go at any better place or game then Eve online. Their number is really impressive and the single idea they actually can reproduce themselves just freaks me out.



Edit: @ Darth -good questions. Very interested in those incoming answers too.

brb
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#16 - 2012-10-08 20:01:15 UTC
Scatim Helicon wrote:
Darth Gustav wrote:
It's certainly interesting to note they weren't happy about Hulkageddon.

Were they happy about the recent EHP increase?

What about the cavernous ore bays? Roll

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
Lors Dornick
Kallisti Industries
#17 - 2012-10-08 20:01:47 UTC
Darth Gustav wrote:

Thanks in advance for any responses you can provide.


Now, would you like him to create a dev blog with generic ramble (and herd it through corporate filters) or would you like to to keep his mouth (keyboard) shut and get on with his work of actually hitting people where it hurts (for them)?

If anything, the security team needs a PR member with the job to create Dev Blogs and provide fake info ;)

Oh, have I just outed Sreegs? ;)

CCP Greyscale: As to starbases, we agree it's pretty terrible, but we don't want to delay the entire release just for this one factor.
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#18 - 2012-10-08 20:05:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Darth Gustav
Lors Dornick wrote:
Darth Gustav wrote:

Thanks in advance for any responses you can provide.


Now, would you like him to create a dev blog with generic ramble (and herd it through corporate filters) or would you like to to keep his mouth (keyboard) shut and get on with his work of actually hitting people where it hurts (for them)?

If anything, the security team needs a PR member with the job to create Dev Blogs and provide fake info ;)

Oh, have I just outed Sreegs? ;)

A casual answer on the forum will do. If there are more bots being caught mining now, that's that.

If there aren't any more, or in fact less, that's that too. I don't really intend to dispute facts.

Basically the only points I'd argue with Sreegs would be interpretive, such as if he says more bots are being caught now, but that doesn't have anything to do with the buff to mining barges and exhumers.

I would probably just happily accept the data, though, in spite of the interpretation which will obviously stand on its own merit, should it be forthcoming.

TL;DR: I sincerely believe Sreegs has nothing to lose by stating if there's a change in trends or not, and what he thinks about it.

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
Roll Sizzle Beef
Space Mutiny
#19 - 2012-10-08 20:13:58 UTC
I'm wondering is anything came of the Scarlet Letter discussion.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#20 - 2012-10-08 20:15:25 UTC
Mara Rinn wrote:
Darth Gustav wrote:
Would you say, based on your response to the above, the threat of ganking was a deterrent to potential mining bot operators?


As a human who partakes in mining, I would expect that the threat of ganking has a greater impact on the population of human miners. Thus I would expect that the introduction of the new barges has increased the population of human miners.

The claim of "fighting bots" has only ever been a rationalisation on the part of the gankers. Just own up to the fact that you enjoy hunting the lowest form of prey in the game.


The vast bulk of kills when BAT Country did the caldari ice interdiction were bots. Its very simple to pick them out just by the way they act. The easyest is the pod that thinks its still in a barge and keepson warping to and from the station. A shocking amount of them would reship and go back to mining while we were still active. I think the record was 7 barges from one guy in a single day.

The scale of mining bots is shocking right now but they are by far not the only large scale operations going on.
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