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Can capsuleers have children?

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Zyress
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#21 - 2012-03-13 19:45:36 UTC
Due to some unexpected grafix issues sometimes when I log on various parts of my anatomy or clothes are missing, and last night I had the misfortune to look up and see my avatar is hung like a Ken doll as his legs and butt were naked and the rest of him was missing except his hair. Based on that I was thinking not.
Morwen Lagann
Tyrathlion Interstellar
#22 - 2012-03-13 19:53:08 UTC
That's usually referred to as "lazy artist syndrome" or "keeping the T rating". P

Morwen Lagann

CEO, Tyrathlion Interstellar

Coordinator, Arataka Research Consortium

Owner, The Golden Masque
Zyress
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#23 - 2012-03-13 20:09:44 UTC
On a more practical note I think immortality would kind of isolate a person, eventually they would cut ties with people that they would outlive (psycholologically easier) or grow tired of,( there are very few people I could spend 24 hours with let alone an eternity). A Capsoleer's life is spent mostly alone. Given the nature of the Eve universe you always suspect treachery and violence from anyone you do meet. If a Capsuleer does crave companionship s/he probably goes to a pleasure hub and buys it (Preferable to the emotional baggage of a real relationship).
Terazul
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#24 - 2012-03-14 02:01:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Terazul
Greygal wrote:

I suspect there is an inherent conflict of interest between the capsuleer's career and parenthood. Children require a lot of time and effort to raise, much of which likely would be spent planet or stationside, after all. As a busy capsuleer fighting the various threats that exist in New Eden, I don't think I would be a very effective mother since I would not be able to spend very much time with my child or children.

Depends on your occupation, I suppose. And your goals, for that matter.

Me, as an enforcer for the Federation Navy, I only have to spend a smidgen of my time actually working (re: killing Serpentis goons by the thousands). Hell, realistically, I could retire whenever I want to (but that's boring, so of course that's not gonna happen anytime soon!).

It would actually be quite trivial to devote a large portion of my time to raising a child; my sorties last all of a few hours, which is actually quite a luxury when you consider normal working hours tend to take a third of the day. And of course, as a capsuleer, I am free to accept employment at my own leisure.

I can see how the situation would be very different for a pirate or someone working for an alliance in null security space. And of course, miners. Poor, poor miners. Yeah, if I were a miner, I would definitely not consider having a child.

But traders? They only need a terminal to access market orders from, so they can effectively work from home, giving them 100% access to their children. It's also a rather peaceful living, which I think makes it the very best occupation for someone who seriously wants to raise a family.

I don't know much about manufacturing or research, so I won't comment on those.

Greygal wrote:
Then there is the whole immortality thing... As a woman, I'm not entirely sure I would want to have children that, unless they followed my career choice, would likely visibly age and physically die while I still fly around looking like I'm in my early 30s. What mother - or father - wants to have children knowing that without doubt, they will outlive their own children?

I have actually pondered this before, and my solution is to take the long view of things - don't think of it as raising a child... think of it as raising a lineage. You will have the opportunity to mentor your grandchildren, and great grandchildren, and their children, and so forth. Yes, it can be emotionally painful to have a loved one, especially a child, die of old age before you, but you still have their children, and your family line can continue ever-onwards. Thinking in terms of just your children is the view of a mortal; for someone who has the luxury of time, a long view just makes sense.

In fact, I wouldn't be surprised to find out that there is a capsuleer out there who tries to maintain a genetic lineage that lasts over millennia. It's a very long-term goal, one suited to someone who can, essentially, live forever.

And hey, who wouldn't wanna have a badass immortal grandfather who can tell you first-hand accounts of major battles that occurred several centuries ago? One who can pilot a massive starship capable of laying waste to entire cities on a whim? It'd be kinda like being the child of a god, really. And hey... some ordinary folks do think of capsuleers as gods. Smile
Silas Vitalia
Doomheim
#25 - 2012-03-14 15:30:46 UTC
Greygal wrote:

I suspect there is an inherent conflict of interest between the capsuleer's career and parenthood. Children require a lot of time and effort to raise, much of which likely would be spent planet or stationside, after all. As a busy capsuleer fighting the various threats that exist in New Eden, I don't think I would be a very effective mother since I would not be able to spend very much time with my child or children.


I'd disagree. We have only to look at the countless examples of wealthy and extremely busy parents in our own world who can afford to hire babysitters, live-in nannies, and tutors to raise their children for them.

If throwing out some pocket change (a few million ISK), was enough money to hire a small army of caregivers, tutors, nannies, etc for years at a time, capsuleers would have little issue in siring several children at a time.

Think of the royalty of old, who for all intents had a small army of advisors and caregivers to raise their children while they went about their own important business.

Capsuleers are wealthier by 100x.

Sabik now, Sabik forever
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#26 - 2012-03-16 16:12:44 UTC
well it was mentioned in the novels but several emperyans had children.

However it was uncertain if they where empyeran themselves or before the encapsulation process.

Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.
Hans Zwaardhandler
Resilience.
The Initiative.
#27 - 2012-03-18 03:12:39 UTC
Take into consideration as well, that people evolve over time. Six thousand years down the road or so when your linage is evolved differently than you are, your DNA will not be compatible with their's

Basically, since immortal creatures in nature are not practical and would have incompatible DNA with younger generation creatures, a capsuleer would have to have a child within the first year or so, if their own body did not evolve (I am assuming it is not, right now).
Yoma Karima
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#28 - 2012-03-19 17:53:56 UTC
Hans Zwaardhandler wrote:
Take into consideration as well, that people evolve over time. Six thousand years down the road or so when your linage is evolved differently than you are, your DNA will not be compatible with their's

Basically, since immortal creatures in nature are not practical and would have incompatible DNA with younger generation creatures, a capsuleer would have to have a child within the first year or so, if their own body did not evolve (I am assuming it is not, right now).


Well that depends on if you want to have your clone evolve or not. You can always change your clone's DNA after all.

Those who wish to end War wish to end what it means to be human. Those who advocate War do not know its power. Yet Those who learn from War will be remembered for all time.
Terazul
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#29 - 2012-03-19 18:25:56 UTC
For the record, as long as the same base-pairs are there (23 in humans), there is at least some level of reproductive compatibility. Yes, even 6 thousand years down the line.

In fact, I somehow doubt that someone born today would be completely incapable of siring a child from someone born in 4,000 BC. There just weren't enough changes in the human genome to suggest such a thing. Evolution happens very, very slowly, to the point where the changes simply aren't observable even over that long a timespan. Realistically speaking, it would take tens of thousands of years (thousands of generations) before the differences become pronounced enough that reproductive compatibility disappears, where the children simply aren't capable of coming to term - though there are other things to consider besides simply DNA, most particularly social mating practices (which is the foremost driver of reproductive discrimination in nature).

For capsuleers, that's probably the biggest hurdle to reproductive success a couple thousand years down, as they'll be dealing with the social stigma associated with such powerful people. That, and the behavior of someone who's that old is probably going to be far and away from standard social practices of that era. Hence, their best hope is probably going to be each other - assuming they can find others who are even interested (most are not, I would imagine).
Wyke Mossari
Staner Industries
#30 - 2012-03-19 20:10:49 UTC

In Templar One, when Mordus (An Empyrean) sends his son on a suicide mission, the son says he will have an eternity to replace him.
Velarra
#31 - 2012-03-25 22:14:57 UTC
CCP Abraxas wrote:


So if they want, they can, but they don't have to.


How does the State, Federation, Empire and Republic feel about this? Did all four mutually agree this was a good idea? Did the Jovians have any influence on this situation?

Wouldn't it be more advantageous for the empires if the capsuleers remain a eunich / jannisary class than a group capable of starting their own families?
Nariya Kentaya
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#32 - 2012-03-25 23:41:23 UTC
Greygal wrote:

Then there is the whole immortality thing... As a woman, I'm not entirely sure I would want to have children that, unless they followed my career choice, would likely visibly age and physically die while I still fly around looking like I'm in my early 30s. What mother - or father - wants to have children knowing that without doubt, they will outlive their own children?

as far as the male side of the immortals with kids and niot wanting to outlicve them, i will point out EVERY GREEK AND ROMAN GOD EVER, as well as some norse and a couple others.

im rpetty sure there were some female examples of these kind of circumstances but they are prolly far to obscure myth-stories for me to remember off the top of my head.
Nariya Kentaya
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#33 - 2012-03-25 23:48:27 UTC
Velarra wrote:
CCP Abraxas wrote:


So if they want, they can, but they don't have to.


How does the State, Federation, Empire and Republic feel about this? Did all four mutually agree this was a good idea? Did the Jovians have any influence on this situation?

Wouldn't it be more advantageous for the empires if the capsuleers remain a eunich / jannisary class than a group capable of starting their own families?

IMO it woudl eb more beneficial to ensure that those who are future capsuleers come form capsuleer families as they would be raised by soemone who holds the same ideals as their parents, so assuming a republic-loyal capsuleer wanted kids (who in turn would ahve a higher chance of becoming capsuleers ebcause hey, what kid wouldnt want to eb a superhero like their parents (in this case literally) are, and would be raised with ideals suited for a republic loyal citizen.

though its probably a question fo eprspective, since they probably DONT like the thought of all those pirate capsuleers raising kids to be super-intelligent reavers running amok through the lowsec systems of the empires.
Yoma Karima
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#34 - 2012-03-26 14:36:23 UTC
Nariya Kentaya wrote:
Greygal wrote:

Then there is the whole immortality thing... As a woman, I'm not entirely sure I would want to have children that, unless they followed my career choice, would likely visibly age and physically die while I still fly around looking like I'm in my early 30s. What mother - or father - wants to have children knowing that without doubt, they will outlive their own children?

as far as the male side of the immortals with kids and niot wanting to outlicve them, i will point out EVERY GREEK AND ROMAN GOD EVER, as well as some norse and a couple others.

im rpetty sure there were some female examples of these kind of circumstances but they are prolly far to obscure myth-stories for me to remember off the top of my head.


Aphrodite and Feyja were two godesess who slepped around a lot and had children with multiple lovers.(note Freyja is a North God)

Those who wish to end War wish to end what it means to be human. Those who advocate War do not know its power. Yet Those who learn from War will be remembered for all time.
Nariya Kentaya
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#35 - 2012-03-26 19:08:47 UTC
Yoma Karima wrote:
Nariya Kentaya wrote:
Greygal wrote:

Then there is the whole immortality thing... As a woman, I'm not entirely sure I would want to have children that, unless they followed my career choice, would likely visibly age and physically die while I still fly around looking like I'm in my early 30s. What mother - or father - wants to have children knowing that without doubt, they will outlive their own children?

as far as the male side of the immortals with kids and niot wanting to outlicve them, i will point out EVERY GREEK AND ROMAN GOD EVER, as well as some norse and a couple others.

im rpetty sure there were some female examples of these kind of circumstances but they are prolly far to obscure myth-stories for me to remember off the top of my head.


Aphrodite and Feyja were two godesess who slepped around a lot and had children with multiple lovers.(note Freyja is a North God)

right, thanks for that, majority of my norse is centered around loki, baldr, and forseti. guess ya learn soemthin new everyday.
Nariya Kentaya
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#36 - 2012-03-26 19:11:00 UTC
Morwen Lagann wrote:
That's usually referred to as "lazy artist syndrome" or "keeping the T rating". P

with WoD being what its going to be, EvE should have no more friendly a rating, average eve palyer is old enough for "M" content to my knowledge anyways, though i def woudlnt want to see any nudity (or fior that amtter, and clothing that reveals alot of skin anywhere) untilt hey fix the stiff-bodied avatars to be a little more "real"
Stitcher
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#37 - 2012-03-26 20:16:52 UTC
I thought I'd just leave this here, seeing as it's slightly relevant.

Persistent vegetative state with encephalitis in a pregnant woman with successful fetal outcome

Pierre-François Ceccaldi1, Arnaud Bazin2, Philippe Gomis3, Guillaume Ducarme1, Anne-Laure Chaufer1, René Gabriel1

Article first published online: 17 DEC 2004

BJOG: An International Journal of Obstetrics & Gynaecology, volume 112, Issue 6


To summarize - there are documented real world cases of pregnant women in a persistent vegetative state having successfully carried a pregnancy to term and had a health child delivered, who showed no adverse sequellae.

That being the case, I don't see it as being at all far-fetched that a female Capsuleer could clone-jump out of her pregnant body so as to avoid risking the child getting podded along with her, and still have a healthy baby at the far end.

If anything, it'd probably be even safer than just walking around normally - the clone body and the baby would both be in a medical facility under round-the-clock surveillance.

There may or may not be side effects to the kid not being exposed to day-to-day hormonal activity in the womb, or being able to hear outside noise, however. Both of these factors are currently reckoned to be an important part of a child's development.

AKA Hambone

Author of The Deathworlders
Thgil Goldcore
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#38 - 2012-03-27 00:06:46 UTC
Very emotional moment. Child yells 'YOUR NOT MY REAL MOTHER!' because the child sees only the clone. Her 'real' mother's body is floating in space riddled with plasma burns. Could really mess a kid up ya know....
equcin meey
camdy and Co. inc.
#39 - 2012-03-27 05:29:15 UTC  |  Edited by: equcin meey
well we know they can have sex from the empyrean age novel and it would make scene that they would at least store some eggs or sperm before they under go the operation to become a capsuleer.so i would at least say they can have children though it would be interesting to know if the clones can have children.

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Thgil Goldcore
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#40 - 2012-03-27 08:44:42 UTC
Get a pregnant jump clone, store it in hybornation till it comes to term.... Easiest... childbirth... ever.

Theres a good fan-fiction story in here somewhere about capsuleers and childbirth. Lots of very interesting directions it could go. In the hands of a competent writer who understands motherhood and parent-child relations there is a great read.
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