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Can capsuleers have children?

First post
Author
Astarta Atrax
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2012-03-03 09:08:18 UTC
Any references about that in chronicles or dev-blogs or somewhere else?
After some searching I found only thisSad
MidnightWyvern
The Bosena Accords
#2 - 2012-03-03 23:34:02 UTC
You know, I honestly hadn't thought of that before. I mean, I know Mens Reppola has a daughter, but I think he and his wife had her -before- he became a capsuleer. Since the bodily modifications are mainly to the central nervous system, I wouldn't figure that reproductive function would be impeded, but that's just my opinion, obviously. I'm curious to see others weigh in on this.

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Horatius Caul
Kitzless
#3 - 2012-03-03 23:58:01 UTC
Almost certainly. The question is: are cloned/modified bodies fertile?

It's certainly possible that clones aren't built to conceive children, and while they are certainly anatomically correct may not have all the necessary plumbing, so to speak. This could be for any number of reasons - simplicity of production and as an actual service to the users most likely.

However, even if clones are sterile, it would be easy to get a child. The EVE universe has advanced genetic design and modification, as well as artificial gestation (although that may have been phased out of the setting). It would be easy for a capsuleer to have a bunch of ideal sperm and/or eggs produced and implanted in a surrogate/artificial womb/gestation clone/whatever.
Ender Black
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#4 - 2012-03-04 05:52:18 UTC
This video would suggest that clones are not biologically fertile nor designed to propagate. P

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Astarta Atrax
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2012-03-04 08:10:09 UTC
Thanks for answers guys!

But is there any official reference of capsuleer get sex and/or some babies? Lol
Jeyson Vicious
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2012-03-05 02:25:00 UTC
The taxi cab capsuleer in Total Recall had 5 kids to feed.
Caroline Grace
Retrostellar Boulevard
#7 - 2012-03-05 03:13:03 UTC
Literally speaking, I think it's quite impossible to deny biological background of any living form - no matter how "upgraded" or "cloned" it is. Capsuleers are biological, there's still need for all that stuff around sex (hormones, biological clocks, etc) to actually be "functional" enough to feel being alive. So about 99,9% I'm pretty sure the answer is and must be yes Blink

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Mirima Thurander
#8 - 2012-03-05 05:12:58 UTC
so long as they can keep from being podded for 8 - 9 months i see no reason why not

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Horatius Caul
Kitzless
#9 - 2012-03-05 10:08:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Horatius Caul
Astarta Atrax wrote:
Thanks for answers guys!

But is there any official reference of capsuleer get sex and/or some babies? Lol

Yes, two capsuleers have sex in The Empyrean Age. That doesn't answer the sterility question though.

Mirima Thurander wrote:
so long as they can keep from being podded for 8 - 9 months i see no reason why not

You could let the gestation take place in a separate clone (like a jump clone).

Caroline Grace wrote:
Literally speaking, I think it's quite impossible to deny biological background of any living form - no matter how "upgraded" or "cloned" it is. Capsuleers are biological, there's still need for all that stuff around sex (hormones, biological clocks, etc) to actually be "functional" enough to feel being alive. So about 99,9% I'm pretty sure the answer is and must be yes Blink

The way clones have been said to work is they are kinda assembled as blank slates with collected biomass, and then kinda sculpted to look like the client (i.e: you). Your genetic material is then injected into the clone and starts to propagate - so you're basically walking around in a slab without any actual DNA until it's taken its time to spread.

At this degree of genosculpting technology, it's pretty hard to imagine that these clones wouldn't work without functional sexual systems (or, indeed, if they had sexual systems that those would actually work. When you are composed of biomass sludge of a hundred different people and your DNA hasn't actually spread throughout your body, where would your sperm or eggs come from?).

And do you really want a being capable of piloting a warship that can glass a city and habitually ends thousands of lives in an instant to suffer PMS? Capsuleer behaviour is erratic enough as it is without the added complications of sexual hormones.
Seriphyn Inhonores
Elusenian Cooperative
#10 - 2012-03-05 14:15:48 UTC
The Sansha NPC "Slave Heavenbound02" is the remnant of my character's fiancee and infant son, so that could be an official answer.
Morwen Lagann
Tyrathlion Interstellar
#11 - 2012-03-05 18:47:20 UTC
I think it's a different question for male and female capsuleers.

Men are constantly producing sperm; for them, as long as they're given a functioning set of genitals I'd say it's safe to assume that they should be perfectly fine.

Women, on the other hand, as far as natural reproduction goes, are given a set of eggs at birth, and that's all they get.* The question here is, do their clones include a set of eggs or not, and if they do, are those eggs viable? If not, that would imply to me that a female capsuleer looking to have a child of her own (that is, genetically-speaking) might need to resort to technology-based alternatives, or have retained her original birth body.


* As an aside, it's worth noting that recent research (1 & 2 - both links @ npr.org) has shown that this may no longer be a limitation sometime in the near future, which might make the second half of the question moot. Blink

Morwen Lagann

CEO, Tyrathlion Interstellar

Coordinator, Arataka Research Consortium

Owner, The Golden Masque

Unit XS365BT
Unit Commune
#12 - 2012-03-09 13:42:53 UTC
well, according to the empyrean age novel, capsuleers (specifically 2 fednav pilots) have no troubles in the intercourse department... it would stand to reason that, given the seemingly large number of young female capsuleers, there would be a way for them to concieve and breed...

though capsuleers don't really have to worry about that whole 'biological clock' thing. it's not like it will ever run out.

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Jowen Datloran
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#13 - 2012-03-10 11:19:27 UTC
I would honestly think all capsuleers would breed through some tube-child solution, if they want to produce offspring. It appears more fitting for control freaks as capsuleers. Also it would remove the physical stress of being pregnant as to not let it interfere with pod operation and the cloning process.

Mr. Science & Trade Institute, EVE Online Lorebook 

Unit XS365BT
Unit Commune
#14 - 2012-03-11 13:17:54 UTC
not sure about that one jowen... it didn't seem to work out so well for the jovians. :P

Unit XS365BT. Designated Communications Officer. Unit Commune.

Jowen Datloran
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#15 - 2012-03-11 13:23:50 UTC
The problem for the Jovians arose from tampering with their DNA. That is not to be recommended and not a necessity for tube-child reproduction. Besides, many good Caldari capsuleers are already a product of our tube-child programs.

Mr. Science & Trade Institute, EVE Online Lorebook 

CCP Abraxas
C C P
C C P Alliance
#16 - 2012-03-12 15:28:56 UTC
Astarta Atrax wrote:
Thanks for answers guys!

But is there any official reference of capsuleer get sex and/or some babies? Lol

Here's one: Capsuleers are not sterile by default, nor do they have any missing organs or interior plumbing. There is a slightly stronger tendency among them to have that stuff removed than there is among the general population, but it's not anywhere near a majority of the entire capsuleer class.

You don't see capsuleers (at least not the ones I've encountered) taking steps to rid themselves of any other base desires - greed, resentment, anger or hate - and I truly don't see them wanting to rid themselves of the sexual one, either. Moreover, we don't want the capsuleer option to be "You'll be rich and powerful beyond your wildest dreams ... but you can never have children." It's a decent hook for a story or two at most, but for any writing work beyond that, it's far too restrictive.

So if they want, they can, but they don't have to.
Katrina Oniseki
Oniseki-Raata Internal Watch
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#17 - 2012-03-12 15:51:35 UTC
Nice. So Capsuleers are not sterile by nature.

It would be interesting to get some insight on how pregnancy can affect use of the capsule, and vice versa. Certainly there's the obvious limitations with regards to second and third trimester and physical changes... but I'm more interested in the strong hormonal changes and how they might affect flight.

Would they manifest themselves as strange anomalies that affect ship performance like boosters do? Something subtle, sure, but you might notice something very strange of 'off'. Say a pregnant woman a couple weeks into it finds she is having difficulty performing certain maneuvers, or use of shield boosters is significantly more uncomfortable for her?

Interesting.

Katrina Oniseki

Silas Vitalia
Nobilita Nera
#18 - 2012-03-12 17:51:22 UTC
Possible yes, practical, no ;)

Although I imagine some odd metaphors with a capsuleer in their pod appearing quite fetal whilst having their own child developing in-utero....

I imagine surrogate pregnancy would be the easiest method. When most of us are stupidly wealthy it would be a non-issue to hire some fertile young people to carry and birth your child in comfort and safety while you are out and about causing trouble in the world ;)

Sabik now, Sabik forever

Astarta Atrax
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2012-03-12 19:30:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Astarta Atrax
CCP Abraxas wrote:


So if they want, they can, but they don't have to.


Thanks for the dev-answer, it's exactly what I needed!

BTW, I like your chronicles very much, especially Black Mountian. I've tranlsated almost all of them into Russian :proud:

Reading them even inspired me to write a chronicle of my own. :doubleproud:
Greygal
Redemption Road
Affirmative.
#20 - 2012-03-12 21:21:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Greygal
I think there is a subtle social and cultural inclination for active capsuleers to not have children, even though they are biologically capable of doing so.

I suspect there is an inherent conflict of interest between the capsuleer's career and parenthood. Children require a lot of time and effort to raise, much of which likely would be spent planet or stationside, after all. As a busy capsuleer fighting the various threats that exist in New Eden, I don't think I would be a very effective mother since I would not be able to spend very much time with my child or children.

Then there is the whole immortality thing... As a woman, I'm not entirely sure I would want to have children that, unless they followed my career choice, would likely visibly age and physically die while I still fly around looking like I'm in my early 30s. What mother - or father - wants to have children knowing that without doubt, they will outlive their own children?

I know that if I were to decide to have children, I would be torn between missing them when off flying on one mission or another, and yearning for the great wide open of space when I was tending to their needs planet or station-side.

Based on my experiences, I have ZERO doubt that the sexual drive exists amongst my fellow capsuleers... no, I will not expand on the details of this Lol ... but the drive for parenthood, for offspring and children... it is something so rarely discussed amongst my cohorts it is almost taboo.

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