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Incoming titan adjustments

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Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#341 - 2012-03-13 17:15:59 UTC
Organa wrote:
Does ccp not seem to realize that there are only currently 2 ways to counter a vastly numerically Superior force? 1 bombers which die in droves but have some chance but generally arnt that effective in killing 1000 dudes with 200. and the titan blob.

If this patch goes through it will basically make titans logistics platforms and only rarly will they be used to do anything else bc whats the point of using a 90b isk ship when you can use a 1b isk dread and do the same thing?

if your going to nerf them fine but do so in a manner which also addresses the reason they are used they allow a group of players that are willing to field 100x the isk of a massively numerical force and have a chance to win. dont half ass the nerf take the time to truly balance the game. instead of working on things like silly new launchers maybe take the time and actually balance the internet spaceships we all log into play.


let's see the primary differences between dreads and titans:

doomsdays

siege mode

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Death2all Supercaps
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#342 - 2012-03-13 17:16:44 UTC
weren't getting fights anyways Cool
Pheusia
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#343 - 2012-03-13 17:19:16 UTC
Andski wrote:
Pheusia wrote:
Shocked

Complaining about drakes is so 2010. There are plenty of viable counters to every subcap doctrine, even tengu fleets, and its dishonest to pretend otherwise.

This Titan rebalance is long overdue and will make sov null a better place.

Isn't Malcanis the good posting face of Initdot? Why isn't he around?


Malcs account is unsubbed atm so I am posting on pheu for the now
Organa
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#344 - 2012-03-13 17:22:31 UTC
Andski wrote:
Organa wrote:
Does ccp not seem to realize that there are only currently 2 ways to counter a vastly numerically Superior force? 1 bombers which die in droves but have some chance but generally arnt that effective in killing 1000 dudes with 200. and the titan blob.

If this patch goes through it will basically make titans logistics platforms and only rarly will they be used to do anything else bc whats the point of using a 90b isk ship when you can use a 1b isk dread and do the same thing?

if your going to nerf them fine but do so in a manner which also addresses the reason they are used they allow a group of players that are willing to field 100x the isk of a massively numerical force and have a chance to win. dont half ass the nerf take the time to truly balance the game. instead of working on things like silly new launchers maybe take the time and actually balance the internet spaceships we all log into play.


let's see the primary differences between dreads and titans:

doomsdays

siege mode



and about 89b isk but as i said i don't really mind the nerf but they need to address the cause not the symptom. not just half ass the nerf
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#345 - 2012-03-13 17:23:12 UTC
Organa wrote:
and about 89b isk but as i said i don't really mind the nerf but they need to address the cause not the symptom. not just half ass the nerf


ahahaha you pay pubbie prices for your titans ahahahaha

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Angel HUN
Nonsense Upon Stilts
#346 - 2012-03-13 17:24:17 UTC
Every time you've balanced supers (i.e. things that cannot be docked or even partially refunded through reprocessing) you have been incredibly heavy handed. Once again, this is an over the top reaction to a partisan issue (and we all know who the chief complaints are coming from).

Stop encouraging blobs > all.
Vile rat
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#347 - 2012-03-13 17:24:37 UTC
Organa wrote:
Does ccp not seem to realize that there are only currently 2 ways to counter a vastly numerically Superior force? 1 bombers which die in droves but have some chance but generally arnt that effective in killing 1000 dudes with 200. and the titan blob.

If this patch goes through it will basically make titans logistics platforms and only rarly will they be used to do anything else bc whats the point of using a 90b isk ship when you can use a 1b isk dread and do the same thing?

if your going to nerf them fine but do so in a manner which also addresses the reason they are used they allow a group of players that are willing to field 100x the isk of a massively numerical force and have a chance to win. dont half ass the nerf take the time to truly balance the game. instead of working on things like silly new launchers maybe take the time and actually balance the internet spaceships we all log into play.


Every single modification they've done to titans has been to reduce or remove their ability to impact subcap fleets. AOE DD? gone. DD's no longer work on subcaps? done. Tracking nerfed? Now that's done too.

The whole point everybody is missing is that you need to stop using these broken hulls as crutches because they were never meant for this role. They were never supposed to be doing what you've used them for and my biggest regret is they let it go this long so people felt like they had to have them in order to be successful. That said it was made clear this is a temporary stopgap fix because they see, like we've been screaming about for ages, that the hull is broken and being used in a role it wasn't meant for. They are going to design a new role for the hull then figure out mechanics to support the hull instead of what we have now which is some dumbo's idea to have a big honkin ship in the game without considering what would happen once you have a thousand big honkin ships.

So stop trying to come up with cute ways to somehow recapture the old glory. Titans weren't meant for subcap warfare, they are capital killers. If you are 300 dudes with multiple accounts crying that you won't be able to punch way above your station to take on 50,000 dudes maybe you should select objectives more appropriate for your size or maybe you can make some friends.
Sentinel Eeex
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#348 - 2012-03-13 17:24:45 UTC
Carmen de Mairena wrote:
The Mittani wrote:
Titan pilots make up .2% of the player population, if we assume 350k players and ~730 titans according to Diagoras' tweets.


According to the last CSM results you were elected CSM Chairman thanks to the votes of 5,365 people, which is 1.53% of the EVE population.

Such an overwhelming majority should indeed allow you to mold the game into whatever you want.


Hahaha, there are still people who think that The Mittani has any power over CCP and their game.

Sweet.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#349 - 2012-03-13 17:26:38 UTC
Angel HUN wrote:
Every time you've balanced supers (i.e. things that cannot be docked or even partially refunded through reprocessing) you have been incredibly heavy handed. Once again, this is an over the top reaction to a partisan issue (and we all know who the chief complaints are coming from).

Stop encouraging blobs > all.


Yeah CCP should stop encouraging the idea of multiple players working together in a multiplayer game

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Tolmar
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#350 - 2012-03-13 17:28:38 UTC
muhuh Aihaken wrote:
If you want to make Titans just useful for bridging and useless in combat then you should reduce the cost of them to the same as a super carrier and let them dock .

Or if you want them to server an anti-cap role leave there scan res as it is now and up there dd damage so they can take out super carriers.



I agree with the reduction in effectiveness vs. subcaps, titans and supers should be able to dock so that supercap alliances can be more dynamic with their gameplay...
BioZvin
The Acheron
Unforgiving.
#351 - 2012-03-13 17:29:52 UTC  |  Edited by: BioZvin
Sentinel Eeex wrote:
Carmen de Mairena wrote:
The Mittani wrote:
Titan pilots make up .2% of the player population, if we assume 350k players and ~730 titans according to Diagoras' tweets.


According to the last CSM results you were elected CSM Chairman thanks to the votes of 5,365 people, which is 1.53% of the EVE population.

Such an overwhelming majority should indeed allow you to mold the game into whatever you want.


Hahaha, there are still people who think that The Mittani has any power over CCP and their game.

Sweet.


I kinda remember someone saying that about BOB / Sir Molle...

You have become your enemy...
Tamplarul
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#352 - 2012-03-13 17:31:33 UTC
as someone said at so much arse kissing from Mittani, he's getting everything hr wants. Is simplier to nurf than to build something new. I hope to give us our SP and the time we invested in titans. All this thread is a big bullsheat. why dont you just say: WHAT MITTANI WANTS MITTANI GETS. Well done Mittani!
Charles Case
State War Academy
Caldari State
#353 - 2012-03-13 17:31:36 UTC
Carmen de Mairena wrote:
The Mittani wrote:
Titan pilots make up .2% of the player population, if we assume 350k players and ~730 titans according to Diagoras' tweets.


According to the last CSM results you were elected CSM Chairman thanks to the votes of 5,365 people, which is 1.53% of the EVE population.

Such an overwhelming majority should indeed allow you to mold the game into whatever you want.

The CSM should be a tool to improve the game for all of us. At the moment it's just a political aberration used by a selected few (who have been appointed to the positions they hold by less than 10% of the subscribers) against their traditional enemies. Anyone with a minimal perception would notice that, although it's not like you're hiding it at all. If it was a fair and reliable system, only because of that public chest beating you should never be allowed to run again for such a determinant position.

All the big recent changes have targeted the same entities. Things like the Technetium rebalancing are being set aside as now the only ones that could have changed that (the corrupt CSM) hold dozens and dozens of those moons and, after this last Titan rebalancing, they are certain they can achieve Technetium monopoly.

The real question would be: why are the developers so biased? There's only two options. Either they are extremely easily manipulable and therefore they will do whatever somoene they like tells them to do even if his intentions are absolutely evident, which is bad, or they are just being fooled by this person or group of persons, which is worse. Truth is CSM doesn't represent any relevant majority in the game, yet they get to change its core whenever they see fit to benefit the same coalition always.

It's quite disgusting and even more difficult to fix. Good luck CCP.


hahaha your first post is a gallon full of tears.
Organa
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#354 - 2012-03-13 17:32:30 UTC
Vile rat wrote:

Every single modification they've done to titans has been to reduce or remove their ability to impact subcap fleets. AOE DD? gone. DD's no longer work on subcaps? done. Tracking nerfed? Now that's done too.

The whole point everybody is missing is that you need to stop using these broken hulls as crutches because they were never meant for this role. They were never supposed to be doing what you've used them for and my biggest regret is they let it go this long so people felt like they had to have them in order to be successful. That said it was made clear this is a temporary stopgap fix because they see, like we've been screaming about for ages, that the hull is broken and being used in a role it wasn't meant for. They are going to design a new role for the hull then figure out mechanics to support the hull instead of what we have now which is some dumbo's idea to have a big honkin ship in the game without considering what would happen once you have a thousand big honkin ships.

So stop trying to come up with cute ways to somehow recapture the old glory. Titans weren't meant for subcap warfare, they are capital killers. If you are 300 dudes with multiple accounts crying that you won't be able to punch way above your station to take on 50,000 dudes maybe you should select objectives more appropriate for your size or maybe you can make some friends.


i don't have the issue with the titan nerf itself and am looking forward to see that they do with the new role, but i think if they are going to do that they need to do it not just nerf them. also your hyperbole dosnt address my point of if one side is willing to field 10 to 100 times the isk of the other side they should have the potential to win(not garented to win bc numbers are an important factor just the potential). in doing a stop gap rushed patch like this they make quantity everything and quality mostly useless. that is my issue with it.
Nao Oikawasan
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#355 - 2012-03-13 17:33:08 UTC
Why, exactly are Drakes, Tengus and Alpha fits a problem in the game?

Once again most of you are missing the point. Goons are hell to deal with because they have huge numbers. Are they supposed to announce ops and tell their members that only a few can go because you don't want to fight fleets larger than yours?

Take a look at the battle reports. Most of the time, even when greatly outnumbered, Goons still engage and win.
That definitely does not look good for all of you "l33t PVPers".

After all, Goons are terrible at this game!

Get more members. Field actual fleets. Spread your ungodly amounts of free ISK from the tech moons you're sucking dry around to players you want to support you. Give them fights they can have fun with. Replace the ships they may loose protecting your assets.

Works for Goons.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#356 - 2012-03-13 17:34:04 UTC
Organa wrote:
i don't have the issue with the titan nerf itself and am looking forward to see that they do with the new role, but i think if they are going to do that they need to do it not just nerf them. also your hyperbole dosnt address my point of if one side is willing to field 10 to 100 times the isk of the other side they should have the potential to win(not garented to win bc numbers are an important factor just the potential). in doing a stop gap rushed patch like this they make quantity everything and quality mostly useless. that is my issue with it.


"victory to the most ISK fielded" is bad game design

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Feawin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#357 - 2012-03-13 17:35:05 UTC
Is it just me or is the proper way to use titans vs subcaps after this nerf to just field a support fleet with huginns / lokis ?
Sentinel Eeex
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#358 - 2012-03-13 17:35:20 UTC
Organa wrote:
Does ccp not seem to realize that there are only currently 2 ways to counter a vastly numerically Superior force? 1 bombers which die in droves but have some chance but generally arnt that effective in killing 1000 dudes with 200. and the titan blob.


Tell me, how would you kill 25 titans?
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#359 - 2012-03-13 17:36:28 UTC
Nao Oikawasan wrote:
Why, exactly are Drakes, Tengus and Alpha fits a problem in the game?


we literally would not shed a tear if alpha was nerfed

I personally have no love for alpha doctrines - they're mind-numbingly boring and uninteresting.

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Vile rat
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#360 - 2012-03-13 17:36:54 UTC
Organa wrote:
Vile rat wrote:

Every single modification they've done to titans has been to reduce or remove their ability to impact subcap fleets. AOE DD? gone. DD's no longer work on subcaps? done. Tracking nerfed? Now that's done too.

The whole point everybody is missing is that you need to stop using these broken hulls as crutches because they were never meant for this role. They were never supposed to be doing what you've used them for and my biggest regret is they let it go this long so people felt like they had to have them in order to be successful. That said it was made clear this is a temporary stopgap fix because they see, like we've been screaming about for ages, that the hull is broken and being used in a role it wasn't meant for. They are going to design a new role for the hull then figure out mechanics to support the hull instead of what we have now which is some dumbo's idea to have a big honkin ship in the game without considering what would happen once you have a thousand big honkin ships.

So stop trying to come up with cute ways to somehow recapture the old glory. Titans weren't meant for subcap warfare, they are capital killers. If you are 300 dudes with multiple accounts crying that you won't be able to punch way above your station to take on 50,000 dudes maybe you should select objectives more appropriate for your size or maybe you can make some friends.


i don't have the issue with the titan nerf itself and am looking forward to see that they do with the new role, but i think if they are going to do that they need to do it not just nerf them. also your hyperbole dosnt address my point of if one side is willing to field 10 to 100 times the isk of the other side they should have the potential to win(not garented to win bc numbers are an important factor just the potential). in doing a stop gap rushed patch like this they make quantity everything and quality mostly useless. that is my issue with it.


I risked more isk than you is a poor argument. Being able to throw more spacebux around should only have a modest increase in your chances of winning, not be the decider.