These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE Information Portal

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

New dev blog: What's in a name

First post First post
Author
None ofthe Above
#521 - 2012-03-05 18:43:39 UTC
Embrodak Kazerin wrote:
I wrote up a big post, but the forum ate it so you're getting the short version.

This attempt at renaming the items is much better than the last one. Names are more intuitive, but flavor is preserved. Battleship missiles and implants really needed it.

Will you be redoing the names you already changed? "Trauma" is a stupid name for a missile. How about "Scourge Kinetic"?

Meta prefixes need more work. When I first played Eve, I avoided all the "Limited" guns because I thought it meant they were worse than the regular ones. "Experimental" and "prototype" don't make sense either when we're mass producing T2 variants.

My suggestion:

Meta1: Calibrated
Meta2: Optimized
Meta3: Enhanced
Meta4: Upgraded

The first two words imply software adjustments, while the last two imply improvements to the hardware itself. That should make the relative quality levels more intuitive while keeping within the Eve style.


This one is good, although I would swap Optimized and Enhanced to get the alphanumeric sort to match the Meta levels.

And add the flavor name in single quotes.

The only end-game content in EVE Online is the crap that makes you rage quit.

Mirajane Cromwell
#522 - 2012-03-05 19:54:01 UTC
I think it's more of UI problem than obscure item name problem - why not just add M1, M2, M3, M4 tags to the corner of item logos (like tech 2 tag) so that you'll immediately see to which meta group each item belongs to? Can't UI designers figure out ways to make it easier to see relevant module info in various windows?

If the new naming goes through, then I'd have dozens of item stacks that start with name "prototype" or "experimental" etc so if I use the list view in hangar, it's going to be really painful to find that one particular item - the new naming scheme would be trader's nightmare. Twisted So I'd rather have meta info shown in item logos and in item lists as well as in market lists.
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#523 - 2012-03-05 21:21:42 UTC
The only naming change that would had made any sense was from "Paradise cruise missile" to "Paradise EM Cruise missile".

Obviously that was too obvious and CCP knew better...
Anja Talis
Sal's Waste Management and Pod Disposal
#524 - 2012-03-05 22:38:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Anja Talis
Just to throw my opinion in, I think you should reset all the changes. I don't think changing the names like this helps with the NPE really. They will still have to look at the attributes on each of the modules to decide what they want to fit, or it won't actually matter an they'll buy the cheapest or fit what is already in their haul.

If you want to clarify the damage types, add it as a "EM/EXP" bit to the name to make it clearer, but how are you handling projectile/hybrid ammo?

It makes complete RP sense for the different missile types to have different names like they did. A Thorn rocket would be a very different thing to a scourge heavy missile. Completely different size, ranges, weight, payload etc. The only thing that would be the same is the type of damage they do, so why call them both Trauma? The change has just made it HARDER to find them in the market or items window. Instead of searching for "Thorn" and finding a load of relevant results, I now have to search for Trauma Heavy. Except that doesn't work, because it misses out the Rages and Javelins!

The prop mod changes are a real shame. They are some of the best named items in the game IMHO and I really miss them. I actually think it's more confusing now. I keep looking for Experimental 1MN MWD, but it doesn't exist, instead I need to look for the Limited? Yet there is an Experimental 10MN MWD? How is this any easier than searching for Catalyzed Cold-Gas I Arcjet Thrusters for the best meta mwd or Cold-Gas I Arcjet Thrusters for the AB one? It says a lot that I can still remember them to dump them here.

Implants is a good move. +1 on them.

Just as an anecdotal point, I've flown with and trained loads of newbies and I don't remember a single complaint about being able to tell the difference between them by name. I do remember people talking about how they liked the names though :/
Noran Talidan
Band of Builders Inc.
Intaki-Business Logistics Union
#525 - 2012-03-06 01:28:26 UTC
Really? CCP Really!!!!

I've played eve since '04, you know back when the learning curve was so high it was practically a wall.

And i can tell ya... i never had once thought about "These names suck". I thought they were creative... and it really seems like you guy lost alot of that since then.

This is the stupidest idea I've heard in a while... I was alright with the missles... but everything else?? Get with it.

You might aswell rename the game while your at it.... I know!!!! "SpaceShips -- Online!!!"

I got anouther suggestion... rename the Armageddon "The Space Dildo" and the navy issue "The Better Space Dildo"... and then i'll shove it where it belongs... which dev first????


Thanks for getting my blood pressure going!!


Tiger's Spirit
Templars of the Shadows
#526 - 2012-03-06 08:06:08 UTC
Noran Talidan wrote:
Really? CCP Really!!!!

I've played eve since '04, you know back when the learning curve was so high it was practically a wall.

And i can tell ya... i never had once thought about "These names suck". I thought they were creative... and it really seems like you guy lost alot of that since then.

This is the stupidest idea I've heard in a while... I was alright with the missles... but everything else?? Get with it.

You might aswell rename the game while your at it.... I know!!!! "SpaceShips -- Online!!!"

I got anouther suggestion... rename the Armageddon "The Space Dildo" and the navy issue "The Better Space Dildo"... and then i'll shove it where it belongs... which dev first????


Thanks for getting my blood pressure going!!




Agree

CCP,this is the time to create Experimental Dual Heavy Modulated Pulse Energy EM/Thermal Beam Meta-4 Weapon for Dumbs.
TheBlueMonkey
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#527 - 2012-03-06 09:32:02 UTC
egh, seems needlesly pointless to me

Firstly some meta level mods are preferable over others because of more than just "does more damage\resists"

Also,
Things have names, deal with it.
Unless we're going to rename cocaine to arrogance powder, canabis to lethargy weed etc.
Daeva Teresa
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#528 - 2012-03-06 09:35:23 UTC
CCP really please dont use Limited, Experimental or Prototype in item names. It sounds like the item is actually worse than basic meta 1 item. Use Calibrated, Enhanced, Optimized and Upgraded. Its easy to understand its better than meta 1 and its also in alphabetic order.

CCP really please dont use Upgraded, Limited, Experimental and Prototype in item names. It sounds like the item is actually worse than basic meta 1 item. Use Calibrated, Enhanced, Optimized and Upgraded. Its really easy to understand that the item is better than meta 1 and its also in alphabetic order.

Tiger's Spirit
Templars of the Shadows
#529 - 2012-03-06 09:51:58 UTC
Daeva Teresa wrote:
CCP really please dont use Limited, Experimental or Prototype in item names. It sounds like the item is actually worse than basic meta 1 item. Use Calibrated, Enhanced, Optimized and Upgraded. Its easy to understand its better than meta 1 and its also in alphabetic order.


Do not create Experimental or Protoype but create Calibrated, Enchanted and other names ? LOL

Dumb
Dumbers
Dumbest

Not need name changes. Not need Limited and not need Calibrated or other idiotic names too.
Daeva Teresa
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#530 - 2012-03-06 09:55:16 UTC
Yes we dont need this. New player may find this less confusing. But since CCP is doing this already, they should at least do it right. Trolling over and over again that you dont want something that is already beying implemented wont help anything.

CCP really please dont use Upgraded, Limited, Experimental and Prototype in item names. It sounds like the item is actually worse than basic meta 1 item. Use Calibrated, Enhanced, Optimized and Upgraded. Its really easy to understand that the item is better than meta 1 and its also in alphabetic order.

Tiger's Spirit
Templars of the Shadows
#531 - 2012-03-06 11:21:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Tiger's Spirit
Daeva Teresa wrote:
New player may find this less confusing.....


Really ? They were confused with old names ? I dont think so.

But they will be confused when they trying to find any modules and they see on internet other module names on killboards, on the websites which trying to help for newbees with old and great FAQs (e.g. I.S.K manualbook). This is the first problem with this name changes. This changes would be make more mess to the game.

The second problem is, the old players will be confused too, because they playing with 7-8 years long this game and these player memorized the old module names.


Don't fix what ain't broke.

But why not fix what is broke ? Such as supercaps problems, ship problems like a EW frigs or gallente commandship, lag problems, overview problems, 0.0 problems, Tech moon problems, cloak problems etc.
Daeva Teresa
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#532 - 2012-03-06 11:32:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Daeva Teresa
Its really stupid to repeat myself. But since you didnt get it first time: Yes, we dont need this. But since its already beying implemented, CCP could at least do this right, soo it can last for another next 10 years or so.

And yes. When I started playing 3 years back, it was really hard for me to know whitch item is what meta from the names. It hapens to me even now from time to time.

CCP really please dont use Upgraded, Limited, Experimental and Prototype in item names. It sounds like the item is actually worse than basic meta 1 item. Use Calibrated, Enhanced, Optimized and Upgraded. Its really easy to understand that the item is better than meta 1 and its also in alphabetic order.

Velicitia
XS Tech
#533 - 2012-03-06 12:09:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Velicitia
Daeva Teresa wrote:
We dont need this. Hand Gnauton over to Sansha, and rid yourselves of this terribad idea.


Fixed that for you.

Alternatively, force him to play the game and give everyone his location, and a full cargohold of Widowmakers Twisted

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia

Muul Udonii
THORN Syndicate
Northern Coalition.
#534 - 2012-03-06 12:10:51 UTC
Sorry to repeat what others have already said; but Light Missile Arrays as a name is daft for 2 reasons:

1) They do not fire light missiles, they fire assault missiles
2) Heavy Assault missiles are fired from a heavy assault launcher, and Assault Missiles are fired from a Light Missile Array. This change actually goes directly against what you are trying to do.

It's almost like one person was responsible for naming the light missiles, and another was responsible for naming the heavy missiles, and they didn't bother talking to each other.


On the other hand, the existing names of most meta items are dumb, it takes a long time to find out if the item you have found is worth keeping or not. So do go ahead with changing stuff, just make sure you do it correctly. Inform 3rd party software developers a LONG time in advance and provide a table of old vs new names so they can easily update their lists.


This is the kind of thing the CSM should get involved with. Just saying.
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#535 - 2012-03-06 12:30:41 UTC
Muul Udonii wrote:
Sorry to repeat what others have already said; but Light Missile Arrays as a name is daft for 2 reasons:

1) They do not fire light missiles, they fire assault missiles
2) Heavy Assault missiles are fired from a heavy assault launcher, and Assault Missiles are fired from a Light Missile Array. This change actually goes directly against what you are trying to do.

It's almost like one person was responsible for naming the light missiles, and another was responsible for naming the heavy missiles, and they didn't bother talking to each other.


On the other hand, the existing names of most meta items are dumb, it takes a long time to find out if the item you have found is worth keeping or not. So do go ahead with changing stuff, just make sure you do it correctly. Inform 3rd party software developers a LONG time in advance and provide a table of old vs new names so they can easily update their lists.


This is the kind of thing the CSM should get involved with. Just saying.



Uh, go to the market. Find me heavy assault missiles. I won't bother waiting, as I have things to do other than wait forever.

Assault Missile Launchers are just light missile launchers that cycle faster.
Heavy Assault Missile Launchers fire assault missiles (not heavy assault missiles. which don't exist.)

http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Assault_Missile_Launcher_I
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Heavy_Assault_Missile_Launcher_I

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter

Tamiya Sarossa
Resistance is Character Forming
#536 - 2012-03-06 17:24:49 UTC
Simplicity is cool, but please at least put the old names in the description of items, they were nice flavor.
The Economist
Logically Consistent
#537 - 2012-03-06 17:54:23 UTC  |  Edited by: The Economist
Ok, here we go

Hardwiring implant name changes - excellent. Love it, makes it easier to tell what they do without sacrificing flavour and fixes something which was commonly whined about

Armor/Shield resist module name changes - makes life a bit easier for new players, makes market searches easier for everyone...removes a tiny bit of flavour and requires re-learning a few terms but generally not really bothered, overall prob a good change

Launcher name changes - I can understand the reasoning...personally I find the new names confusing and unneccessary after 8 years. I could live with the change though

Module meta level names - What the f$*& are you thinking? Utterly utterly horrible. You ask if it removes too much flavour from the universe.....how could it not? How many different item names and pre-fixes are there in the database.....and you want to replace ALL of them with 4 words? It was crap enough on the mwd's (not to mention the horrible and utterly unnecessary missile name change which only serves to further remove flavour from the game and more importantly makes me take longer to see which missiles i need from a hangar since all the names are the f%&*$&g same), how on earth do you want to do it everything else? If the main arguements are simplification and helping new players well: a; there are more existing players negatively affected than there are new players to be benefitted, b; simplification for its own sake is needless dumbing down and well....simplification...and c; how about focusing on teaching new players how to show info and compare items if complexity is really the issue? Personally I've learnt vast amounts about the game by studying item infos and comparing attributes. This is not a case of complexity for complexity's sake; this is for the sake of sci-fi flavour, immersion in the game, general differentiation, avoidance of boredom and other feelings i've yet to work out how to elucidate in a sufficiently biased fashion. [insert well thought out arguement about it buggering up existing backstory and game fiction here, not to mention killboards, game guides etc etc here

On further consideration I actually find CCP's view of our mental capacities as implied by their perception of a need for this global name change fairly insulting

I'm trying my best but I don't thinking I can adequately emphasise just how horrific an idea I think the meta name changes are; in any form.

I'm not quibbling over the confusion between the new naming scheme, since prototype and experiemental are the same thing, or that 'limited' makes an item sound worse than t1; but rather vomiting over the whole scheme and the spurious reasoning behind it. I'm sure there are better ways this dev team's time can be used; I'd have thought that if you find yourself trying to find ways to fix things that aren't broken then it's time to find something that is instead.

It's just not necessary. Why are we re-arranging deck-chairs? Would anyone argue that the world is needlessly complex and could be improved upon by re-naming everyone Tom, ****, Harry and Jane? We have fairly sopisticated brains that are capable of remembering more than 4 words.

[constructive suggestions: if you want to draw more attention to items meta levels and make it quicker and easier to see then what about just adding an 'm' designation to existing names? i.e. Fleeting M2 Warp Disruptor (not very elegant and I still don't like it, but it's less horrible that the proposal). Or perhaps adding a new info tab to items; 'Meta Level'? not wonderful ideas I know.]
Shin Dari
Covert Brigade
#538 - 2012-03-06 18:09:17 UTC


The Assault Missile Launcher dilemma is quite annoying, in fact one can say that its existence isn't even consistent, its the odd man out of all the launchers. If possible I would recommend to have it replaced by a skill book, something like Advanced Rapid Launch, Light Missile Rapid Launch or Light Rapid Launch.


@The Economist
How can you take longer to see which missiles you need from a hangar?! In my experience it is going a lot faster.
The Economist
Logically Consistent
#539 - 2012-03-06 18:20:36 UTC  |  Edited by: The Economist
Shin Dari wrote:


The Assault Missile Launcher dilemma is quite annoying, in fact one can say that its existence isn't even consistent, its the odd man out of all the launchers. If possible I would recommend to have it replaced by a skill book, something like Advanced Rapid Launch, Light Missile Rapid Launch or Light Rapid Launch.


@The Economist
How can you take longer to see which missiles you need from a hangar?! In my experience it is going a lot faster.


They all have the same names.

Another example being speed module names; previously it was easy to see how many mwd's/ab's i had in a hangar and at what meta level. Now I glance at a hangar and all I see is "Experimental 100mn" "Experimental 100mn" "Prototype 10mn" "Prototype 10mn". With the old naming system I would see "quad lif" "lif" "y-t" "y-s8" etc as the start of the names allowing me to instantly tell which were ab's and mwd's, now I can't. That's aside from the fact that the new names don't make sense to me....is prototype better than experiemental? I don't know. Of course, I can see as soon as I look at the show info window (which was always the case anyway) but the idea is that the naming simplification makes things easier and more intuitive, so far, in my experience, it's the opposite.

Also another point I don't think I went over sufficiently; the current naming system encourages people to actually read module infos, do their own comparison and generally put themselves in positions to actually learn more about the game and thereby deepen their experience. Over-simplification encourages mental auto-pilot, compexity encourages immersion and education.
Gibbo3771
AQUILA INC
Verge of Collapse
#540 - 2012-03-06 19:36:42 UTC
This will just make the game boring, current names are fine imo.

I for one find a fitting more eye catching and creative like this:

[Harpy, Yay]
Damage Control II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Micro Auxiliary Power Core I

1MN Afterburner II
J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I
X5 Prototype Engine Enervator
Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction

Light Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Light Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Light Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Light Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
[empty high slot]

Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Small Hybrid Burst Aerator I


Rather than this

[Harpy, Yay]
Damage Control II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Micro Auxiliary Power Core I

1MN Afterburner II
Experimental Warp Scrambler
Experimental Stasis Webifier
Prototype Medium Shield Extender

Light Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Light Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Light Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Light Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
[empty high slot]

Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Small Hybrid Burst Aerator I

Iunno, just it doesent look as dynamic and creative