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Rising PLEX prices

Author
Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
#41 - 2017-07-08 17:26:04 UTC
Spc One wrote:
Coralas wrote:

CCP does have issues with plex, in that if ingame plex isk prices get too high people need to buy less plex.

Me and my friends already stopped playing eve online, we will return if PLEX prices go below 2mil (per PLEX), if not we have new game, Quake Champions, free to play, and it's awesome.
Cool

Free to play seems to be the only criterion nowadays.

Otherwise I cannot see any connection between a "fast paced arena based shooter" and EVE online, an open world, sandboxy, classical MMORPG.

Remove standings and insurance.

Algarion Getz
Aideron Corp
#42 - 2017-07-08 19:35:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Algarion Getz
Neena Valdi wrote:
Kaphrah wrote:

Back to topic: CCP should imo allow exactly ONE market transaction per plex after which it is account bound. This would reduce the massive influx of the traders just making money out of an item technically not even related to ingame processes. Make an extra WTB/WTS thing in the account management and remove plexes from the market/game. solved.


And how should they set the PLEX price in this case? It's much better to let the market find the optimal price depending on current supply vs demand.

This doesnt really work when 5% of players generate ~50% of the monthly ISK.
Consumers dont dictate the prize of PLEX anymore. Investors, speculators and SP farmers do.
For other items this would be ok, but PLEX is essential for some players to play the game, so there should be some special restrictions.
Aston Martin DB5
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#43 - 2017-07-08 19:56:48 UTC
I'm hoping Plex in-game goes to around 9bill. Then I can purchase a few plex and skill inject straight into a Titan to blap everyone know fleet with my multiboxing Titans haahahhaahah
Vanessa Celtis
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#44 - 2017-07-09 15:09:43 UTC
Nero Jove wrote:
Hmmmm. CCP employs a number of fulltime economists to manage the in game economy. Is it a surprise to anyone that PLEX prices are soaring? This is NOT an unintended consequence, but as someone who runs multiple accounts it is wearing on my desire to continue to play. Most of my game time use to be having fun. Now it's all about grinding ISK which frankly is pretty damn tedious. I am thinking it is time to take a break and go play something else for a while.


Perfect ! Please send me all you stuff via contract in Jita (exchange with 0 cost) and all your ISK.
Thanks.
Keno Skir
#45 - 2017-07-09 15:26:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Keno Skir
Algarion Getz wrote:
Consumers dont dictate the prize of PLEX anymore. Investors, speculators and SP farmers do


U wot m8? Investors, speculators and SP farmers are consumers too and are currently doing a sweet job of setting the market price for PLEX. What you mean is :

"Grinders don't dictate the price of PLEX anymore. Investors, speculators and SP farmers do"

Which makes your case sound a bit less legit doesn't it. Paying for your gametime with ISK was never meant to be for everyone, only for those who are more space rich than average. The mistake comes when the average Joe thinks everything has to be cheap enough for everyone to afford.

EvE is a subscription game, with a FTP ongoing trial. If you make more in game cash than you need, you can choose to spend ISK instead of real cash on your sub, which is nice but is still definitely a privilege rather than a right. This does not entitle you to be able to grind PLEX in any set time limit or buy PLEX for any capped price. PLEX is worth whatever people will pay for it, and when they won't any more the price will come down, that's how it works.
Algarion Getz
Aideron Corp
#46 - 2017-07-09 18:34:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Algarion Getz
Keno Skir wrote:
Algarion Getz wrote:
Consumers dont dictate the prize of PLEX anymore. Investors, speculators and SP farmers do


U wot m8? Investors, speculators and SP farmers are consumers too and are currently doing a sweet job of setting the market price for PLEX.

They dont consume PLEX, they waste PLEX. Every 500 stack of PLEX that collects dust in the hangar of some space rich nerd is one less active player. Every ~1000 stack of PLEX that is wasted per month by a passive SP farm account is 2 less active players.

If it were up to me, SP farming would be removed and PLEX would have an expiration date of 60 days, so that players cant hoard it.

But CCP obviously prefers to cater to the whales and stuff the game with monetization mechanics.
... and to spend the revenues on VR projects. (Gunjack 1&2, Valkyrie, Spark, ...)
erg cz
ErgoDron
#47 - 2017-07-10 08:36:05 UTC
Algarion Getz wrote:
PLEX would have an expiration date of 60 days, so that players cant hoard it.


That would be an interesting move...
Keno Skir
#48 - 2017-07-10 11:51:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Keno Skir
Algarion Getz wrote:
Keno Skir wrote:
Algarion Getz wrote:
Consumers dont dictate the prize of PLEX anymore. Investors, speculators and SP farmers do


U wot m8? Investors, speculators and SP farmers are consumers too and are currently doing a sweet job of setting the market price for PLEX.

They dont consume PLEX, they waste PLEX. Every 500 stack of PLEX that collects dust in the hangar of some space rich nerd is one less active player. Every ~1000 stack of PLEX that is wasted per month by a passive SP farm account is 2 less active players.

If it were up to me, SP farming would be removed and PLEX would have an expiration date of 60 days, so that players cant hoard it.

But CCP obviously prefers to cater to the whales and stuff the game with monetization mechanics.
... and to spend the revenues on VR projects. (Gunjack 1&2, Valkyrie, Spark, ...)


If they buy something from the market, they are a consumer. They are consuming the item from the market in every way it's possible to intelligently consider a market situation. And since the market is not empty of PLEX nobody is missing out, the stacks of PLEX in their cargo are only stopping someone from playing if there are none on market and that's never going to happen. I'll give you that the hoarding of PLEX increases the market price and the cost might be prohibitive to some new players, but that isn't a problem in my opinion since EvE is cheap and you can always just use cash. PLEX is supposed to be a luxury not everyone can afford.

Giving PLEX an expiration date would break more than it would fix, you just need to think about it more.

All companies spend revenue from one project on another, it's normal. Don't see what your point is.

Dunno, i think you're just angry about pricey PLEX and not seeing the bigger picture.
Ebony Texas
Un4seen Development
Sev3rance
#49 - 2017-07-10 14:04:13 UTC
Algarion Getz wrote:
Keno Skir wrote:
Algarion Getz wrote:
Consumers dont dictate the prize of PLEX anymore. Investors, speculators and SP farmers do


U wot m8? Investors, speculators and SP farmers are consumers too and are currently doing a sweet job of setting the market price for PLEX.

They dont consume PLEX, they waste PLEX. Every 500 stack of PLEX that collects dust in the hangar of some space rich nerd is one less active player. Every ~1000 stack of PLEX that is wasted per month by a passive SP farm account is 2 less active players.

If it were up to me, SP farming would be removed and PLEX would have an expiration date of 60 days, so that players cant hoard it.

But CCP obviously prefers to cater to the whales and stuff the game with monetization mechanics.
... and to spend the revenues on VR projects. (Gunjack 1&2, Valkyrie, Spark, ...)



this is a wonderful idea, I agree with it fully. oh man how the plex cartels would chit bricks if it happened though.. and yeah im speaking out against the plex cartels finally cause its ridiculous how plex has gotten out of hand.

ccp can also take their SP farming mechanics and stick it up their behinds!
Arthur Spark
ErgoDron
#50 - 2017-07-10 14:14:19 UTC
Keno Skir wrote:


Giving PLEX an expiration date would break more than it would fix, you just need to think about it more.




What exactly will it break, apart from few actively speculating "customers", who ruins that game by removing players out of it? players count is back on year 2007 level.


Keno Skir wrote:

Dunno, i think you're just angry about pricey PLEX and not seeing the bigger picture.


Bigger picture can be found here. Expensive PLEX means less money for CCP Amount of players, who use PLEX to get ISK still remains the same (total PLEX sell orders amount) but they do not need to sell that many PLEXes to get their ISK. When PLEX was 500 milions they needed 1 PLEX for each 500 milion Isk ship. Now they can have 3 such ships for same RL money. So CCP gets 1/3 of money they got before.

People like me, who have RL money, but can't spend them for the on-line game cause of family reasons, will simply switch to alpha state and that means less content, created by me or others. Cause in between job, wife and kids I do not have that much time for PvE to get enough ISK for PLEX and PvP. Do not forget the concurrence like War Thunder or Wargaming, where you have match making and instant combat content for 0 RL money of time for PvE grind invested. There is still no better cheat free, F2P online game, like Eve, but competitors are getting closer...
Teckos Pech
Patriotic Tendencies
Goonswarm Federation
#51 - 2017-07-10 23:15:24 UTC
Nero Jove wrote:
Hmmmm. CCP employs a number of fulltime economists to manage the in game economy. Is it a surprise to anyone that PLEX prices are soaring? This is NOT an unintended consequence, but as someone who runs multiple accounts it is wearing on my desire to continue to play. Most of my game time use to be having fun. Now it's all about grinding ISK which frankly is pretty damn tedious. I am thinking it is time to take a break and go play something else for a while.


Why is paying RL money not an option?

You have heard of opportunity cost right? Well it is now kicking you in the nutts telling you to stop grinding and get out the credit card, paypal, etc.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Teckos Pech
Patriotic Tendencies
Goonswarm Federation
#52 - 2017-07-10 23:44:20 UTC
Coralas wrote:
Nero Jove wrote:
Hmmmm. CCP employs a number of fulltime economists to manage the in game economy. Is it a surprise to anyone that PLEX prices are soaring? This is NOT an unintended consequence, but as someone who runs multiple accounts it is wearing on my desire to continue to play. Most of my game time use to be having fun. Now it's all about grinding ISK which frankly is pretty damn tedious. I am thinking it is time to take a break and go play something else for a while.


For you to play the game for free, means fundamentally someone else has to pay for you. You are looking directly at the limits of how much they ware willing to pay for you and what they want for it. IMO it also ultimately distorts the ingame economy so I'd not shed a tear if you and some of your ilk go. There is no other solution for plex prices other than some of you stopping doing this, just like there is no other long term solution for car traffic other than some people taking the train.

CCP does have issues with plex, in that if ingame plex isk prices get too high people need to buy less plex to complete any individual project (like buy a rorqual) and that will eventually outweigh the finite number of people that will buy plex, at which point the price runs away, but I also imagine they work on figuring out where that point is.


Over all, with the increase uses of PLEX you'd expect the price to go up. You have more people demanding PLEX. To get more PLEX into the game you need to offer a better price in terms of ISK to those people. At 350 million ISK you are going to get a supply of PLEX that is going to be wildly insufficient to meet the current demands. This is called excess demand--that is, the people who want PLEX at 350 million ISK will far outstrip those willing to supply at that price. The solution is to let the price increase. People willing to buy at 350 million may not be willing at 450, 500, 650. etc. million ISK. And at the higher prices players willing to trade RL money for ISK will buy PLEX and enter the market as sellers.

Further, PLEX is probably more of a luxury good. That means that the income elasticity of PLEX is greater than 1. This means that as a players income goes up he'll be willing to allocate a larger share of his income to PLEX. That is suppose the income elasticity is 1.5 and my income (in game) has gone up 50%, that implies my demand for PLEX went up 62.5%--i.e. more than the increase than my income. One reason for this is that PLEX prices tend to go up over time. So if you have quite a bit of liquid ISK lying around then putting it into PLEX is not a terrible idea.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Teckos Pech
Patriotic Tendencies
Goonswarm Federation
#53 - 2017-07-10 23:47:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Teckos Pech
Arthur Spark wrote:
Keno Skir wrote:


Giving PLEX an expiration date would break more than it would fix, you just need to think about it more.




What exactly will it break, apart from few actively speculating "customers", who ruins that game by removing players out of it? players count is back on year 2007 level.


PLEX prices have little or nothing to do with player numbers. Most people always have the option of paying for the game with RL money. Unless the player absolutely loves grinding for ISK, the opportunity cost of grinding is going up and players should be switching back to paying via RL money. And in buying multiple months you can get a discount which makes it even more ridiculous if you do not like grinding that you are devoting more and more time towards grinding.

Quote:
People like me, who have RL money, but can't spend them for the on-line game cause of family reasons, will simply switch to alpha state and that means less content, created by me or others.


Why should you get subsidized game time? Because you have RL commitments? We all have problems and issues. I don't go to my grocery store and sob on the managers shoulder asking him to cut the prices for just me. You do realize that what you'd do is take wealth in game from players who maybe taking a break and transferring it to yourself (or so you think). Also, those who have large ISK holdings and do not have a good place to invest it....you'd be essentially transferring their wealth to you as well (assuming PLEX prices go down). Why do you deserve this? What makes you so special?

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Sarina Aideron
Aideron Corp
#54 - 2017-07-12 10:22:48 UTC
Funny how every Goon is fiercly defending high PLEX prices.
Are you scared that CCP might intervene and the trillions you invested in PLEX might lose value?
Keno Skir
#55 - 2017-07-12 11:29:48 UTC
Sarina Aideron wrote:
Funny how every Goon is fiercly defending high PLEX prices.
Are you scared that CCP might intervene and the trillions you invested in PLEX might lose value?

Mop up your butt-hurt please it's getting slippery underfoot Pirate
Freya Sertan
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#56 - 2017-07-12 15:57:54 UTC
Damn it feels good to be an adult with a job.

New Eden isn't nice. It isn't friendly. It isn't very hospitiable. Good thing there are people here to shoot in the face.

Want to make New Eden a nice place? Try this out.

Algarion Getz
Aideron Corp
#57 - 2017-07-12 18:02:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Algarion Getz
Freya Sertan wrote:
Damn it feels good to be an adult with a job.

* in a Western country.

In my last job, a 6-month internship in Eastern Europe, i earned 0.48$ an hour. So ... ~30h of work for a 1-month EVE sub. (Everyone in Europe has to pay the same 15$/month, only Russians get a special payment plan AFAIK.)

I prefer to earn my Omega time ingame.
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#58 - 2017-07-12 18:52:49 UTC
Algarion Getz wrote:
Freya Sertan wrote:
Damn it feels good to be an adult with a job.

* in a Western country.

In my last job, a 6-month internship in Eastern Europe, i earned 0.48$ an hour. So ... ~30h of work for a 1-month EVE sub. (Everyone in Europe has to pay the same 15$/month, only Russians get a special payment plan AFAIK.)

I prefer to earn my Omega time ingame.
I don't know why you bother. Americans can barely find their own country on a map let alone that nebulous "everywhere else" that they have no clue about.

Mr Epeen Cool
Old Pervert
Perkone
Caldari State
#59 - 2017-07-12 20:08:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Old Pervert
Algarion Getz wrote:
u3pog wrote:
This is where Sonya comes in and tells you if you cannot afford to pay 10$ a month, you are playing the wrong game Big smile

And he/she is right. EVE is cheap. You will pay the same price for a burger. If PLEX is too expensive for someone, then why not switch to sub? PLEX is a luxury, I am the 1000th man saying this and this is the 100th+ thread on the topic.

Depends where you live. In Europe, everyone has to pay 15$ a month for an EVE sub, but the average net wage varies between 205$ and 5310$. A Swiss citzten earns 26 times more than a Ukrainian citizen, but both have to pay 15$ for a sub.
PLEX is not a luxury, it is essential for some players.



"I'm playing a game" (which is a luxury in itself) "and it is too expensive in-game to not pay for it" (which is also a luxury).

PLEX is not essential for any player, because EVE is not essential for anyone. The game is a luxury. If you cannot afford to pay for that luxury, you are lucky because you can earn it in-game if you so decide. If you decide that is too much work, then bye bye.

TLDR: Eve itself is a luxury. Luxuries cost money usually, CCP lets you do it for free if you want to.
Old Pervert
Perkone
Caldari State
#60 - 2017-07-12 20:19:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Old Pervert
Arthur Spark wrote:
Keno Skir wrote:


Giving PLEX an expiration date would break more than it would fix, you just need to think about it more.




What exactly will it break, apart from few actively speculating "customers", who ruins that game by removing players out of it? players count is back on year 2007 level.



What would it break? How about the entire game?

Imagine plex had even a 6 month expiration. Obviously, the players with hundreds of thousands of plex have more than they could possibly use. so they dump it on the market.

The price crashes.

Everyone buys the plex they need to sub up for the next 6+ months, the majority sits on the market until it expires.

Going forward, for the next 6 months, plex are utterly meaningless - the same people who normally fund their ingame activities with plex end up with zero income, because the surplus is utterly excessive and the demand is barely above zero.

Going forward from there, plex becomes almost trivial to buy, as demand will remain far lower than it is now, and the surplus supply will balance itself to the fact that almost nobody's buying it.

Meanwhile this whole time, nobody's buying plex from CCP, nobody's paying a subscription to CCP. What is CCP supposed to do for income?