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[June] Fighter Damage Reduction

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Brigadine Ferathine
Presumed Dead Enterprises
Against ALL Authorities.
#981 - 2017-06-09 23:49:54 UTC
Lamajagarn McMyra wrote:
Don't like this change either, rather than just lowering the reward try increasing the risk. Lower the ehp to make them resonably killable by 10 battleships. Add a posibility to instantly counter a cyno, have been sugesting a targeted cynosural disruptor for a long time. With the current system you pretty much have to go afk in a ratting carrier to get caught.

Uhhhh no
Wolfstorm
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#982 - 2017-06-09 23:53:03 UTC
blaedin jordan wrote:
Analius Glover wrote:
Heavy Fighters (Long Range Attack): 30% reduction to Basic Attack damage. - really? Are you out of your mind? Just canceled the subscription on my all accounts. Have fun CCP


It's just an absurd idea they slipped in at the last moment for Lord only knows what purpose. We elect players to represent us for this very reason, to keep the devs from coming up with half-cocked ideas that are absolutely horrible for the players and community. The effectively castrate capital ships in this manner isn't cool. Where are our reps, why weren't they consulted, and why is this being pushed through days before the patch's release?


CSM has grown into a joke filled with the 1% of the 1% ...
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#983 - 2017-06-09 23:56:09 UTC
Faruzen en Divalone wrote:
Panther X wrote:
Total Newbie wrote:
Simple solutions for your simple minds CCP.

Rather than kill entire classes of ships in your effort to throw out the baby with the bath water, why don't you:

1. Have rats apply even more massive damage to fighters/bombers.

2. put a gate on anoms/sites that capital class ships can't enter

3. spend more time finding your terrible code and fixing it.


I mentioned 2 earlier and IMO it's probably the easiest and most "balanced" way to fix this "problem". If you implement #2 then #1 is moot anyway. If you want to implement #2 you will probably have to do #3 anyway, so we ALL win.

Please CCP, listen to us here. Some people CANNOT afford to play this game in a paid subscription/RL money way. If you keep removing viable options for us to play by working for it, then you are going to see a reduction in the Omega clone subscriptions. I'm not saying "I quit" but I will be looking at the number of Omega subs I have. I'm not a high volume player like some people are, and I am not the richest guy in the game, but in my tenure here, I have been able to make good business decisions, and save enough to not HAVE to pay for my subs. But I would rather save that isk for a rainy day, or invest in side projects, than blow it all on however many subs I would need.

At the end of the day (gawd I hate that line) your heavy handed band aid solutions are not garnering you any good will here. Please step back for a moment and re-evaluate your course of action here. Eve isn't here because of you, CCP. It is here because we love this game, and we love the community we have built around it (despite Gons best efforts to the contrary--JK) and it is here because we continue to open our wallets every month, 6 months, 12 months etc and continue to pay your salaries, buy new equipment and bring tourism to Iceland every year. CCP doesn't pay for Fanfest. WE DO.

CCP you would do well to remember that.


The economy here is obeying supply and demand. If you reduce the ISK generation -> less ISK on market -> less people buying PLEX -> PLEX price goes down -> people start buying PLEX again -> balance. I believe you will not end up not being able to buy PLEX. Hell you can buy PLEX after ONE evening of ratting. Even if you had to spend 2 or 3, its still f***** easy.
The economy here is obeying CCP's plan for increasing income for CCP.
Reduce isk generation - Players can't plex accounts - Accounts go Alpha - people stop logging in.
It then doesn't matter if plex prices go down due to less demand - Damage is done, players are lost.

Keep in mind too, when there is less demand for plex and the price does go down - People buy less plex from CCP.



Keep pushing CCP, 7 of 11 accounts are already alpha and likely to be extracted.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Kaze Mester
Perkone
Caldari State
#984 - 2017-06-09 23:56:44 UTC
Lamajagarn McMyra wrote:
Don't like this change either, rather than just lowering the reward try increasing the risk. Lower the ehp to make them resonably killable by 10 battleships. Add a posibility to instantly counter a cyno, have been sugesting a targeted cynosural disruptor for a long time. With the current system you pretty much have to go afk in a ratting carrier to get caught.


Yeah...let 10 bs kill my 25b super. Great idea.
blaedin jordan
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#985 - 2017-06-09 23:57:41 UTC
What a shame then, I really don't like that CCP is pushing through something this game-changing at the last moment without selling the idea to us first. Sure, I can just grab some golems or paladins and keep grinding isk with ease -- it's the principle of the matter though. These are end-game ships that are being absolutely eviscerated because of flawed logic and sketchy math. Nerfing carriers and supercarriers will not stop the isk faucet from flowing; they really should delay the change and spend more time talking with the players and investigating other solutions.

What a shame.
Radious Servasse
Amped.
Goonswarm Federation
#986 - 2017-06-09 23:58:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Radious Servasse
When there is 1020 comments raging about how bad the new nerf will be.... I wonder if they will listen?


Within 24 hours.
Cervantis Storm
Only Fleets
Brute Force Solutions
#987 - 2017-06-10 00:01:32 UTC
Knuckle Dragger wrote:
Sassura wrote:
SurrenderMonkey wrote:
Aldent Arkanon wrote:
CCP Quant wrote:
What we have here is literally the top 1% of the top 1% screaming their lungs out over these nerfs, while trying to convince the rest of the player-base to think that CCP is ruining the game for everyone. What we are really doing is keeping it from becoming yet another hyper inflated virtual economy at the cost of pissing off a particular group of players. Prior to this patch, a relatively small group of players were making the same amount of isk in npc bounties as the entire player-base did a year ago.
Anyone closely following the MERs will know that NPC bounties are out of control and have been spiralling that way since Citadels. What sort of balanced gameplay is it when you can safely sit in a super making up to 260M ticks? Of course we know that supers are not solely to blame, VNI's, Ishtars, and basically every decent drone platform is responsible for a massive chunk of the bounty pool but not at nearly the same efficiency.
This isn't only screwing with the money supply but it's dramatically increasing RMT. When you can reliably sit and make 500-780M pure isk/hr** pr. account** (hence the number of "unsubbing 17 accounts" threads), some people choose to look at it this way: you can be making over minimum salaries in some countries in RMT.
Then people complain about us nerfing mining when the mineral price index has been in a freefall for a long time and the only reason it's not worse is that the massive increase in mining volume is directly feeding into the e.g. the massive increase in super demand to get in on the bounty grind.
Sure pass some of that rage over to me, I'd be happy to take some heat off CCP Larrikin's and Fozzie's shoulders.


Apparently carrier users are the top 1% of the top 1%. Really makes you think...

I also don't know where you got the idea that supers make 260 mil ticks but that has literally no basis in reality whatsoever.

Sure, there was a problem, and yes it needed a solution, that doesn't mean that you should deploy the first solution without thinking it through. Not to mention that you waited until 3 days prior to the change to announce it, not that you care about feedback anyways.


Nothing he said is really inaccurate, and definitely justifies a nerf to carrier/super ratting.

It's really just the, "Oh, and uh... they'retoostronginPvPtoosowhatever" tacked onto the end, coupled with the magnitude of the nerf, that I find troubling.


Plenty of what he said was inaccurate, including the suggestion that people are making up to 780 mil per account with 17 accounts which will now rage unsub.. Carrier/super ratting with one account melts your brain in an hour, I'd love to know who is doing it with 17 accounts. I suspect no one is.

I'd like to know how someone is getting some bad ass ticks like 260 mil, also stating that they're multi-boxing carriers means that they are going against the EULA and using ISBOXER the way that should ban you. I see alot of people that are small game guys, Sutonia, and others happy about these changes however, I for one dont think was the best move overall. I bet the CSM guys all bought a **** ton of BPC's and Machs prior to this change to fill their wallets after what came to light. 1% of the 1% really? take Skill injectors/extractors out and problem solved. 1 more thing like this I think its time to find a new game. Sorry CCP, man this hurts.



Most people with practice can triple box carriers without many issues. But back to the issue at hand. Just reset Carriers and Supers. Triage Carriers, Pantheon Archons/Aeons, Carriers can deploy 10 drones / fighters, supers can deploy 10 fighter bombers depending on skill, DDA's dont bonus fighters,,, lets go back in time and then try and reinvent the wheel again.
Kaze Mester
Perkone
Caldari State
#988 - 2017-06-10 00:02:10 UTC
Radious Servasse wrote:
When there is 1020 comments raging about how bad the new nerf will be.... I wonder if they will listen?


Within 24 hours.



That is not a representative number for Mr. Ccp dataguy im 100% sure.
Dyzz e
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#989 - 2017-06-10 00:03:35 UTC
I wonder if the devs realize they are actually loosing money with all these nerfs. Hope Star Citizen is as good as its hyped up to be.
Kaze Mester
Perkone
Caldari State
#990 - 2017-06-10 00:04:36 UTC
Dyzz e wrote:
I wonder if the devs realize they are actually loosing money with all these nerfs. Hope Star Citizen is as good as its hyped up to be.


It is not.:(
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#991 - 2017-06-10 00:06:44 UTC
Ralph Shepard wrote:
CCP Larrikin wrote:
Hi Space Friends,
Coming with our release on Tuesday, we’re significantly reducing the damage output of Fighters.

Why:
We are making this change because Carriers & Supercarriers are too strong in PvE, specifically anomaly ratting in Nullsec. As you may have seen in the May Monthly Economy Report, there is a significant upward trend in the Money Supply. This is primarily due to NPC Bounties.
This trend is unsustainable. Having such a large ISK faucet is bad for the economy, and this ISK faucet is concentrated to a relatively small number of players.
We also think that Carriers and Supercarriers are a bit too effective in PvP now. This change will significantly change the PvP balance, but we’re confident that Carriers and Supercarriers will remain powerful options for PvP.

What:
  • Light Fighters (Space Superiority): No Change
  • Light Fighters (Attack): 20% reduction to Basic Attack and Heavy Rocket Salvo damage.
  • Support Fighters: No Change
  • Heavy Fighters (Heavy Attack): 10% reduction to Basic Attack and Torpedo Salvo damage.
  • Heavy Fighters (Long Range Attack): 30% reduction to Basic Attack damage.
  • Heavy Fighters (Shadow): No Change
  • NPCs are 15% more likely to shoot at fighters than they are currently.


We will continue to observe the economy after these changes and will make adjustments as necessary to keep it healthy for all our players.


If you truly wanted to do something with isk generation, you would fix incursions.
Which means this is just an excuse from you.


Incursion payouts are a fraction of pirate bounties.

http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/MER/May_2017/9aaa_top.sinks.faucets.over.time.png
http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/MER/May_2017/9b_isk.float.3.png

But please keep up the histrionics.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Thead Enco
Thunderwaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#992 - 2017-06-10 00:07:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Thead Enco
CCP Larrikin wrote:
[img]http://web.ccpgamescdn.com/newssystem/media/71813/1/GermanFlag33.png[/img]  [img]http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/devblog/FLAG_-_RUSSIAN-33.png[/img]

Hi Space Friends,
Coming with our release on Tuesday, we’re significantly reducing the damage output of Fighters.

Why:
We are making this change because Carriers & Supercarriers are too strong in PvE, specifically anomaly ratting in Nullsec. As you may have seen in the May Monthly Economy Report, there is a significant upward trend in the Money Supply. This is primarily due to NPC Bounties.

This trend is unsustainable. Having such a large ISK faucet is bad for the economy, and this ISK faucet is concentrated to a relatively small number of players.

We also think that Carriers and Supercarriers are a bit too effective in PvP now. This change will significantly change the PvP balance, but we’re confident that Carriers and Supercarriers will remain powerful options for PvP.

What:
  • Light Fighters (Space Superiority): No Change
  • Light Fighters (Attack): 20% reduction to Basic Attack and Heavy Rocket Salvo damage.
  • Support Fighters: No Change
  • Heavy Fighters (Heavy Attack): 10% reduction to Basic Attack and Torpedo Salvo damage.
  • Heavy Fighters (Long Range Attack): 30% reduction to Basic Attack damage.
  • Heavy Fighters (Shadow): No Change
  • NPCs are 15% more likely to shoot at fighters than they are currently.


We will continue to observe the economy after these changes and will make adjustments as necessary to keep it healthy for all our players.


This is how CCP really feels about the their playerbase

PSA a supercap certainly does not make 700mil an hr and anyone who claims is mentally ********. You would chain the first set of anoms too fast for them to respawn even with ADM 6. CCP Do you even play this game? Also you can't fricking multibox 17 carriers or supers with the new drone UI. and since imput broadcasting is banned on Isboxer it is impossible.
InterStellar Architect
InterStellar Architects Corporation
#993 - 2017-06-10 00:08:37 UTC
I fully agree that having an ever-increasing supply of ISK is detrimental to the economy, and CCP is doing the right thing by nerfing this ISK faucet.

The 1% of the players who are complaining is making such a big deal out of this, and sometimes it seems like they might even use alts to complain just to make their voices louder. And I hope CCP do not cater to them.

The ever-increasing ISK faucet needs to be nerfed.

Unfortunately they cannot make this nerf happen by buffing the bounty-generating NPC's, because it will have too much of an impact on the majority of the population that use smaller ships to rat.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#994 - 2017-06-10 00:09:33 UTC
Gianni Zuiverloon wrote:
FIX THE ANOMALIES NOT THE CAPITAL SHIPS.
NEW ANOMALIES FOR CARRIERS ONLY AND RESTRICTED ACCESS TO THE CURRENT ANOMS FOR CARRIERS.

AFTER YEARS OF TIME WASTED SKILLING A SHIP YOU NERF IT LIKE THAT?!? ARE YOU SERIOUS??
GIVE ME BACK ALL THE SKILL POINTS YOU THIEFS.

-4 ACCOUNTS SUB RIGHT NOW.
UNTIL YOU CHANGE YOUR MIND COMPLETELY.

Bye bye



If you nerf the anomalies you nerf ISK generation for everyone...even those not causing the problem.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
blaedin jordan
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#995 - 2017-06-10 00:10:31 UTC
Kaze Mester wrote:
Radious Servasse wrote:
When there is 1020 comments raging about how bad the new nerf will be.... I wonder if they will listen?


Within 24 hours.



That is not a representative number for Mr. Ccp dataguy im 100% sure.


1. It's actually a blatant lie, nobody is capable of raking in the kind of isk he is trying to convince us is being made. 280 million isk in a tick--who are the derps that actually believe that to be true??

2. Beyond that, who are the 1% players that own carriers to rat in them? Dudes in every alliance, every renter, and every low sec corp in the entire game.

3. There's still no excuse for trying to sneak in such a game changing nerf days before the release of a major patch. It's just really shocking how they think they can do whatever they want to the playerbase without even giving us the respect of allowing for proper community testing before hand.

In short, they are vastly exaggerating the amount of isk being made by carriers and super carriers while understating to a huge degree the amount of people that will be affected.
Yodasmaster4
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#996 - 2017-06-10 00:11:47 UTC
I disagree with the "bit too effective in PVP" just reduce the bounties.
singthegrief
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#997 - 2017-06-10 00:12:17 UTC  |  Edited by: singthegrief
BURN JITA IS ON LETS GET #REKT!! Lets show them we are not 1%
Kaze Mester
Perkone
Caldari State
#998 - 2017-06-10 00:13:06 UTC
InterStellar Architect wrote:
I fully agree that having an ever-increasing supply of ISK is detrimental to the economy, and CCP is doing the right thing by nerfing this ISK faucet.

The 1% of the players who are complaining is making such a big deal out of this, and sometimes it seems like they might even use alts to complain just to make their voices louder. And I hope CCP do not cater to them.

The ever-increasing ISK faucet needs to be nerfed.

Unfortunately they cannot make this nerf happen by buffing the bounty-generating NPC's, because it will have too much of an impact on the majority of the population that use smaller ships to rat.


Irony right? Right?
Thev Sonata
State War Academy
Caldari State
#999 - 2017-06-10 00:13:56 UTC
Dont be stupid CCP.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#1000 - 2017-06-10 00:18:33 UTC
Khara Hirl wrote:


Average regular carrier user make 50m tickets. Super carrier maybe double that if they are lucky and can move around fast enough. 22b isk ships don't deserve 400m an hour? I think they should be earning more. Lets say you play 3 hours a day because you work IRL and are not a brain dead snow flake liberal, it would take you a month in ratting in a super just to replace it if you die including insurance. So yeah I'd say it's just fine. More isk in the game means cheaper plex prices which is actually good for alpha retention rate.


I'm going to say no. You should probably not be able to rat up another ship like that in 55 hours of ratting.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online