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Increasing demand results in increased price
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Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#101 - 2017-05-31 14:27:55 UTC
KaarBaak wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
People say this every time, the PLEX market is at risk. I could link "omg plex prices" posts here all day from 2013 on up. And not just from this forum.


Very simply question then. WHY hasn't it happened yet? People claim that terrible things are going to happen because PLEX is too expensive. So when is the big fall going to happen?

Why didn't EVE just explode on November 19, 2014?

Donima wrote:
Plex on the marker in eve has just reached 1 billion isk. The increase in price if this commodity is outrageous. Especially when you consider that just 2 years ago it was only 500mil. And back in 2009 it was just under 200mil. That means it grew 300 mil over 3 years and then 500 mil in just under 2yrs with nearly 200mil of that being just in the last month or 2.

Now some may say this is due to inflation or increasing avenue for income stream. But nowhere of those explain why Plex prices have skyrocketed so drastically while every other commodity has practically stayed stagnant.

Many players rely on the ability to pay isk to play because they can't afford to pay with real money such as broke college students or others affected by a down turned economy. But these prices are making it extremely difficult for these people to afford the time to be able to afford to Plex their account.

My concern is that if CCP doesn't do something about this soon, they will be losing a lot of their more consistent player basis and we as capsuleers might be losing a lot of our industrial friends.

I ask CCP to consider this market commodity as an exploited market item right now and look for a way to fix it as soon as possible.


Any day now, PLEX prices are gonna kill EVE!!!!!!


Edit: I like how that post tried to make it sound like it wasn't that the poster was mad about plex prices for herself but rather the poster's concern for "broke college students and folks hurt by the economic downturn" lol.

It's great that we have now evolved to being concerned that some people now live in countries where the minimum wage is $1.50 U.S. per hour.... It's like history repeats itself over and over and over again.


PLEX isn't going to kill EvE online. It's like saying bad driving is going to kill an old person.

There can be no doubt that EvE is "fading." See link

If the concurrent user count is nearly the same as it was pre-F2P, and you have to assume that some of those users are now F2P users, then the number of paid accounts is at or below the F2P bump.

What the actual numbers are? Only the folks in the boardroom know. The big mystery is where is the point of no return? Similar to Dust, when is someone going to say the numbers no longer justify...development...maintenance...keeping the lights on?

But, much like your aging grandmother, players need to prepare themselves. Could be tomorrow...could be two years from now. But the trend is obvious. EvE has been in a slow population decline since 2013.

KB


This is just the EVE version of 'doomsday anxiety' (the evidence is the part I highlighted). It's silly, a company that just had it's most profitable year in it's history isn't going anywhere anytime soon, and even if it did up and die tomorrow, EVE is just a video game.


Seems like I've had this same conversation before lol.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#102 - 2017-05-31 14:48:06 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
KaarBaak wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
People say this every time, the PLEX market is at risk. I could link "omg plex prices" posts here all day from 2013 on up. And not just from this forum.


Very simply question then. WHY hasn't it happened yet? People claim that terrible things are going to happen because PLEX is too expensive. So when is the big fall going to happen?

Why didn't EVE just explode on November 19, 2014?

Donima wrote:
Plex on the marker in eve has just reached 1 billion isk. The increase in price if this commodity is outrageous. Especially when you consider that just 2 years ago it was only 500mil. And back in 2009 it was just under 200mil. That means it grew 300 mil over 3 years and then 500 mil in just under 2yrs with nearly 200mil of that being just in the last month or 2.

Now some may say this is due to inflation or increasing avenue for income stream. But nowhere of those explain why Plex prices have skyrocketed so drastically while every other commodity has practically stayed stagnant.

Many players rely on the ability to pay isk to play because they can't afford to pay with real money such as broke college students or others affected by a down turned economy. But these prices are making it extremely difficult for these people to afford the time to be able to afford to Plex their account.

My concern is that if CCP doesn't do something about this soon, they will be losing a lot of their more consistent player basis and we as capsuleers might be losing a lot of our industrial friends.

I ask CCP to consider this market commodity as an exploited market item right now and look for a way to fix it as soon as possible.


Any day now, PLEX prices are gonna kill EVE!!!!!!


Edit: I like how that post tried to make it sound like it wasn't that the poster was mad about plex prices for herself but rather the poster's concern for "broke college students and folks hurt by the economic downturn" lol.

It's great that we have now evolved to being concerned that some people now live in countries where the minimum wage is $1.50 U.S. per hour.... It's like history repeats itself over and over and over again.


PLEX isn't going to kill EvE online. It's like saying bad driving is going to kill an old person.

There can be no doubt that EvE is "fading." See link

If the concurrent user count is nearly the same as it was pre-F2P, and you have to assume that some of those users are now F2P users, then the number of paid accounts is at or below the F2P bump.

What the actual numbers are? Only the folks in the boardroom know. The big mystery is where is the point of no return? Similar to Dust, when is someone going to say the numbers no longer justify...development...maintenance...keeping the lights on?

But, much like your aging grandmother, players need to prepare themselves. Could be tomorrow...could be two years from now. But the trend is obvious. EvE has been in a slow population decline since 2013.

KB


This is just the EVE version of 'doomsday anxiety' (the evidence is the part I highlighted). It's silly, a company that just had it's most profitable year in it's history isn't going anywhere anytime soon, and even if it did up and die tomorrow, EVE is just a video game.


Seems like I've had this same conversation before lol.


I'm not gonna say this isn't doomsday howling but we have to take into account the "most profitable year" also happen to be the "most micro-transaction heavy year" where they added a bunch of stuff we have absolutely have no idea how long the market will need. Subs a good for a company because it's usually somewhat consistent. We still don't know how the SP market will evolve for example. It might be a somewhat endless fountain of revenue if the demand stays high or it might change if it's just a rush until people are happy with how much different ship they can use.

Let's just keep on playing and see how it actually pans out.
KaarBaak
Squirrel Team
#103 - 2017-05-31 14:48:36 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
[quote=KaarBaak]

Seems like I've had this same conversation before lol.

That's because nothing has changed since then.

Dum Spiro Spero
Salvos Rhoska
#104 - 2017-05-31 15:14:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
KaarBaak wrote:
PLEX isn't going to kill EvE online.


That CCP fragmented PLEX is a very strong indicator that CCPs PLEX income has dropped.

They are trying to make it more accessible in incremental amounts for less expendable cash.

I dont think it will work:
A) The less PLEX you buy with cash, the less your equity. They are a bad deal. The less PLEX you buy, the less you get for your buck.
B) There is so goddam much stockpiled PLEX ingame that players now own the PLEX market, and by extension, the incentive to sub.

CCP has lost control of its own revenue in EVE.

PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#105 - 2017-05-31 15:15:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
KaarBaak wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
[quote=KaarBaak]

Seems like I've had this same conversation before lol.

That's because nothing has changed since then.


10 years from now I'll be able to say the same thing, just like I was 10 years ago.

That's the point lol. Rejoice, only 59 more days to the 14th annual EVE IS DYING day.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#106 - 2017-05-31 15:17:29 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:

B) There is so goddam much stockpiled PLEX ingame that players now own the PLEX market, and by extension, the incentive to sub.



Proof?

Or is this again something you pulled out of your ass?
Salvos Rhoska
#107 - 2017-05-31 15:19:00 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
10 years from now I'll be able to say the same thing, just like I was 10 years ago..


This isnt 10 years ago, or 10 years from now.

Dont be so naive as to think many things havent changed between then, now, and into the future.

Because something has worked in the past, is no insurance or surity it will continue into the future.
Otherwise we would all be citizens of the Roman Empire.

PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#108 - 2017-05-31 15:23:00 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
10 years from now I'll be able to say the same thing, just like I was 10 years ago..


This isnt 10 years ago, or 10 years from now.

Dont be so naive as to think many things havent changed between then, now, and into the future.

Because something has worked in the past, is no insurance or surity it will continue into the future.
Otherwise we would all be citizens of the Roman Empire.



I guess we'll find out on the 31st of May 2027. See you then.

*me hibernates*
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#109 - 2017-05-31 15:30:28 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
10 years from now I'll be able to say the same thing, just like I was 10 years ago..


This isnt 10 years ago, or 10 years from now.

Dont be so naive as to think many things havent changed between then, now, and into the future.

Because something has worked in the past, is no insurance or surity it will continue into the future.
Otherwise we would all be citizens of the Roman Empire.



I guess we'll find out on the 31st of May 2027. See you then.

*me hibernates*


You can't hibernate!!!

There are rats that need killin' ...
Gimme Sake
State War Academy
Caldari State
#110 - 2017-05-31 15:33:58 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
10 years from now I'll be able to say the same thing, just like I was 10 years ago..


This isnt 10 years ago, or 10 years from now.

Dont be so naive as to think many things havent changed between then, now, and into the future.

Because something has worked in the past, is no insurance or surity it will continue into the future.
Otherwise we would all be citizens of the Roman Empire.



I guess we'll find out on the 31st of May 2027. See you then.

*me hibernates*


You can't hibernate!!!

There are rats that need killin' ...



It's called afk rating.

"Never not blob!" ~ Plato
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#111 - 2017-05-31 15:39:32 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
10 years from now I'll be able to say the same thing, just like I was 10 years ago..


This isnt 10 years ago, or 10 years from now.

Dont be so naive as to think many things havent changed between then, now, and into the future.

Because something has worked in the past, is no insurance or surity it will continue into the future.
Otherwise we would all be citizens of the Roman Empire.



I guess we'll find out on the 31st of May 2027. See you then.

*me hibernates*


You can't hibernate!!!

There are rats that need killin' ...


Crap, I forgot about the Guristas menace. 2 million more rat kills should do it.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#112 - 2017-05-31 16:22:42 UTC
Gimme Sake wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
10 years from now I'll be able to say the same thing, just like I was 10 years ago..


This isnt 10 years ago, or 10 years from now.

Dont be so naive as to think many things havent changed between then, now, and into the future.

Because something has worked in the past, is no insurance or surity it will continue into the future.
Otherwise we would all be citizens of the Roman Empire.



I guess we'll find out on the 31st of May 2027. See you then.

*me hibernates*


You can't hibernate!!!

There are rats that need killin' ...



It's called afk rating.


Can't warp tot he next anom if you are hibernating.

AFK ratting also need to die in a fire but vOv...
Salvos Rhoska
#113 - 2017-05-31 16:51:32 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
I guess we'll find out on the 31st of May 2027. See you then.


I dont think so.

PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#114 - 2017-05-31 16:59:05 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:
Clandestiny wrote:
Sonya Corvinus wrote:
$10.95/mo is so much cheaper than plex is now from a time perspective ("grinding for money" IRL compared to griding for ISK) I don't see why anyone would ever actually buy plex in game....

May I ask where you live? I live in the Mid-South, USA.

5/23/17 CROSS BORDER FEE Miscellaneous/Bill Pay (BP) -$0.30
5/23/17 CCP GAMES ORDERID:3718 Amusement &amp; Entertainment -$14.95

So I'd like the $10.95 fee vs $15.25.

Thanks Smile
There is no $10.95 option. There is a $131.40 option. If you want a months playtime for $10.95, it'll cost you a yearly sub.

But admitting that inconvenient truth sort of defeats the argument put forward.

Just ignore Sonya.

Mr Epeen Cool


It is the same thing. I get paid an annual salary. Does that mean I get paid 1x a year? No. I get paid 26 times a year. So I could convert my annual salary to a bi-weekly salary by dividing by 26. If I wanted to get an implicit hourly salary or wage, I'd then divide by 80.

Why is this hard? If I pay an annual sub, my implicit monthly cost is $10.95.

This is simple math and there anyone disputing this has trouble with basic facts.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#115 - 2017-05-31 17:01:57 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:

It is the same thing.
That's not even remotely true in the context of the discussion.

Mr Epeen Cool
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#116 - 2017-05-31 17:03:41 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:

It is the same thing.
That's not even remotely true in the context of the discussion.

Mr Epeen Cool


Roll

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#117 - 2017-05-31 17:11:26 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:

It is the same thing.
That's not even remotely true in the context of the discussion.

Mr Epeen Cool


Yes it is, you just don't want it to be. EVE costs an average of $10.95 at it's lowest subscription price (which you get if you pay yearly). $15 is its price if you pay monthly with cash and 19.99 monthly pay monthly with plex. The fact that you can't pay monthly for $10.95 doesn't make that amount not be the average cost (and lowest cost) of EVE Online.

All of which is moot. If you cannot afford $15 USD per month to play EVE (multiplied by however many accounts one wishes to use), that sucks but it's no emergency or some reason for CCP to intervene in the plex market like some want (whether they'd admit it or not), EVE is a video game made for entertainment purposes and no one owes anyone access to a video game.
KaarBaak
Squirrel Team
#118 - 2017-05-31 18:05:24 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
KaarBaak wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
[quote=KaarBaak]

Seems like I've had this same conversation before lol.

That's because nothing has changed since then.


10 years from now I'll be able to say the same thing, just like I was 10 years ago.

That's the point lol. Rejoice, only 59 more days to the 14th annual EVE IS DYING day.

Your quoted link wasn't from 10 years ago. It was from 2 years ago. EvE was in decline 2 years ago.

Your second link was, as far as I can tell very near EvE's peak. That was akin to someone singing the praises of universal home ownership in 2007.

10 years ago? EvE was growing. 10 years from now? EvE will be an interesting Wikipedia entry.

You're welcome to say whatever you like whenever you like. Doesn't make it true.

It's just math.

Dum Spiro Spero
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#119 - 2017-05-31 18:10:19 UTC
KaarBaak wrote:

Your quoted link wasn't from 10 years ago. It was from 2 years ago. EvE was in decline 2 years ago.

Your second link was, as far as I can tell very near EvE's peak. That was akin to someone singing the praises of universal home ownership in 2007.

10 years ago? EvE was growing. 10 years from now? EvE will be an interesting Wikipedia entry.

You're welcome to say whatever you like whenever you like. Doesn't make it true.

It's just math.


It's just anxiety. It's the fear that something you (probably) feel 'invested in' might suddenly go away. I don't know the future, but I know I've heard this same BS for the entire time I've been playing and it's just a dumb thing to worry about. People do it about real life too, hypochondriacs so worried about dying and getting sick that they don't do anything to enjoy the life they have right now. People at work so worried they will get laid off that the stress affects their home lives worse than if they got laid off...

If it is a wikipedia entry in 10 years, I'll be able to look at it and remember how much fun I had NOT worrying about how soon it would end.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#120 - 2017-05-31 18:10:24 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Mr Epeen wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:

It is the same thing.
That's not even remotely true in the context of the discussion.

Mr Epeen Cool


Yes it is, you just don't want it to be. EVE costs an average of $10.95 at it's lowest subscription price (which you get if you pay yearly). $15 is its price if you pay monthly with cash and 19.99 monthly pay monthly with plex. The fact that you can't pay monthly for $10.95 doesn't make that amount not be the average cost (and lowest cost) of EVE Online.

All of which is moot. If you cannot afford $15 USD per month to play EVE (multiplied by however many accounts one wishes to use), that sucks but it's no emergency or some reason for CCP to intervene in the plex market like some want (whether they'd admit it or not), EVE is a video game made for entertainment purposes and no one owes anyone access to a video game.


EVE is a RIGHT GODDAMMIT! Just like free speech. So I demand that every other EVE players pay more so I an pay less!

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online