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Smart Bomb Camps

Author
Algathas
Wraithguard.
The Wraithguard.
#21 - 2017-05-11 15:03:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Algathas
Xzanos wrote:
Also everyone who is bring up null sec, that has nothing to do with I am talking about. You can still use drag bubbles in null and bomb the f out of whoever in line warps. What is all this talk about zero tank ceptors? and why is there such a dire need to counter them? i mean webs come to mind as an alternate counter.

I just don't understand why people are hanging on to a game mechanic that is so cancerous you might as well be a tumor sitting on the gate. I guess a majority of players get more enjoyment out of ruining other peoples fun than actually providing content.


If a ceptor has a "get into warp" time of under 2 seconds its almost (if not 100%) impossible to point them on the gate even with the maximum possible scan resolution. On top of that they are nullified and can't be stopped by bubbles. This means they are invincible except for smart bombs. Then if they wish they can keep this speed and put a tank good enough to survive more than 16 large T2 bombs all at once. -- All in a ship that cost almost nothing. That is way more cancerous than some slow clunky battleship that has to be in an exact location waiting and hoping that someone will be dumb enough to warp to them while being so weak that a cruiser landing could kill them.
Xzanos
Fools Resurrection
#22 - 2017-05-11 16:09:26 UTC
Algathas wrote:
If a ceptor has a "get into warp" time of under 2 seconds its almost (if not 100%) impossible to point them on the gate even with the maximum possible scan resolution. On top of that they are nullified and can't be stopped by bubbles. This means they are invincible except for smart bombs. Then if they wish they can keep this speed and put a tank good enough to survive more than 16 large T2 bombs all at once. -- All in a ship that cost almost nothing. That is way more cancerous than some slow clunky battleship that has to be in an exact location waiting and hoping that someone will be dumb enough to warp to them while being so weak that a cruiser landing could kill them.


THIS has been the only good reason someone has given for why not to nerf SB, I have not been in null for a LONG time and completely forgot about the interdiction nullification bonus that ceptors got. However smartbombs have been in the game for much longer than the ceptor change so to say that that is there purpose i think is a bit incorrect.

I would rather see a SB activation distance get nerfed along with the nullification changes reworked (from what i have heard mostly everyone has a negative opinion on nullification ceptors.) Maybe only nullify the bubbles that are in dscan range from where you start warp.

(lore wise basically the ship can only compensate for a bubble that was within the ships scanner range when initiating warp.)

This would allow for bubbled SB camps in systems more than 14 AU across to still work IF the ceptor pilot/pilots are LAZY but also make them avoidable for players who use pings/ celestials in systems where it is known a SB camp could happen instead of never knowing if one is present and having to use a ping on ever low/ null gate in new eden. Thats a lot of BM's


*activates thermal hardeners for incoming flame

Algathas
Wraithguard.
The Wraithguard.
#23 - 2017-05-11 19:08:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Algathas
Xzanos wrote:


THIS has been the only good reason someone has given for why not to nerf SB, I have not been in null for a LONG time and completely forgot about the interdiction nullification bonus that ceptors got. However smartbombs have been in the game for much longer than the ceptor change so to say that that is there purpose i think is a bit incorrect.

I would rather see a SB activation distance get nerfed along with the nullification changes reworked (from what i have heard mostly everyone has a negative opinion on nullification ceptors.) Maybe only nullify the bubbles that are in dscan range from where you start warp.

(lore wise basically the ship can only compensate for a bubble that was within the ships scanner range when initiating warp.)

This would allow for bubbled SB camps in systems more than 14 AU across to still work IF the ceptor pilot/pilots are LAZY but also make them avoidable for players who use pings/ celestials in systems where it is known a SB camp could happen instead of never knowing if one is present and having to use a ping on ever low/ null gate in new eden. Thats a lot of BM's




Smart bombs have already been nerfed several times in various ways. For example:
-Many ships have had their tank increased compared to long ago, and the bomb damage has remained the same.
-You can not smartbomb at zero on a gate or station. That was changed a long time ago. You must be at least the blast radius of the bomb distance from the sphere of the gate or the docking ring of the station.
-Ships used to have the same warp deceleration, making them much easier to hit. Now ships have different timing and faster warping ships land much faster requiring more skill to hit the target.

This means that its near impossible to smartbomb someone on the in gate, and only through very good placement can you get someone on the out gate. People can sit at 0 on the gate and the bomb won't hit them whatsoever. Using most celestials or a ping will easily avoid the bomb completely. Some gates are huge and difficult to catch someone from more than one precise direction. The only really dangerous gates are the ones that are way above or below the disk of the solar system because there are no celestials at the right angle to avoid the bomb. However these systems are easy to see and of course it would be boring if every system were the same and we couldn't use the topography to our advantage. Make pings off of these gates.
Xzanos
Fools Resurrection
#24 - 2017-05-12 12:17:58 UTC
[quote=Algathas]
This means that its near impossible to smartbomb someone on the in gate/quote]

I have never been podded anywhere other than the in gate so near impossible seems like a huge overstatement. Nor was it in a system over 14au. I hade no idea he was even there as he was cloaked. Regardless of them being nerfed before, It doesnt seem to have done much good.

Bots make timing not an issue.

*activates thermal hardeners for incoming flame

Algathas
Wraithguard.
The Wraithguard.
#25 - 2017-05-12 14:58:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Algathas
Xzanos wrote:
[quote=Algathas]
This means that its near impossible to smartbomb someone on the in gate/quote]

I have never been podded anywhere other than the in gate so near impossible seems like a huge overstatement. Nor was it in a system over 14au. I hade no idea he was even there as he was cloaked. Regardless of them being nerfed before, It doesnt seem to have done much good.

Bots make timing not an issue.


I call BS. I highly doubt you were podded when you came IN to a system. Only when you landed going out of the system. What you are saying just can't happen.

You appear 12 KM off of gate when you come in and you are cloaked. The smartbomb must be 6KM or more off of gate if its T2, or 5KM offf of gate if its T1.

So, if you appear 12 ish KM off of gate, and the radius is 5-6KM (a 10-12KM diameter), then that means that with optimal placement the smartbomb could only hit you in one single point on the IN gate and Only if they are using a T2 or faction bomb. The odds of you appearing in exactly that spot when you decloak, and them being able to hit you before you warp out are about 1 in a billion. So no. it is not possible.

Here is an image showing why: Smart bomb blast area on gate for large bombs

Anyhow, this is why I love smartbombing people like you. You bring me juicy loot and whine and cry that the evil baddy that killed you must somehow be botting or cheating to make it happen. Blaming the game for your failness rather than learn how the game works so it won't happen to you again.
Xzanos
Fools Resurrection
#26 - 2017-05-19 16:50:56 UTC
Yes i guess i miss understood, but you are correct. I mean to say that it always happens when landing on a gate not when coming through the other side.

Sorry to "whine and cry" just trying to make this game more fun for everyone and not just a few. But your right I guess I just suck at Eve too, one more thing to add to the list.

*activates thermal hardeners for incoming flame

W0lf Crendraven
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
#27 - 2017-05-24 15:22:36 UTC
You still shouldnt be able to get hit while warping. Im fine with the bombing happening after you exit warp, but dying midwarp is ********.
Oreb Wing
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#28 - 2017-05-24 16:04:45 UTC
W0lf Crendraven wrote:
You still shouldnt be able to get hit while warping. Im fine with the bombing happening after you exit warp, but dying midwarp is ********.


******* as in it sucks, or ******* as in it's not possible?

I'm pretty sure these **** bags have gotten me as my pod exits or slows out of warp.
W0lf Crendraven
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
#29 - 2017-05-24 16:16:02 UTC
As in sucks, you should be able to die while warping.
Substantia Nigra
Polaris Rising
The Bastion
#30 - 2017-05-26 02:15:49 UTC
Xzanos wrote:
I agree with you completely but with cloaking t3s I have taken every precaution and still been popped. The only way to be safe would be to never warp to a gate directly if there are other people in system. I feel like this is pushing things a little far just to travel from system to system.


I virtually never warp to a gate direct when there are non-friendlies in system. Doing so is a simple method for making it easier for people to kill me: bubbles or smartbombs.
Don't be lazy, it's up to you to make the effort to make yourself safe in eve. Do some self-help, not whine-to-CCP to 'fix' eve to suit your chosen lazy play.

Smartbombs, close to the gates as you describe, are the most powerful counter to nullfied instawarping ceptors ... when they warp-direct. Fast lockers can sometimes catch them on the ingate, but more often not, but a pair of smart-bombing BSs appropriately placed on the outgate is a far more effective counter. No-tank and they die.

I'm a little at a loss to understand how a decently setup T3 would die to gate bombers, unless there was quite a large gang of them. I have not seen a T3 die to out 2 - 4 BS disco guardians-of-the-galaxy, even twhent hey have warped-direct.

I guess I am almost a 'vet' by now. Hopefully not too bitter and managing to help more than I hinder. I build and sell many things, including large collections of bookmarks.

Keno Skir
#31 - 2017-05-26 09:58:03 UTC
Xzanos wrote:
as i have already stated this is not about smartbomb camps being unavoidable but about the hassle of having to avoid them. I could spend months always warping to a celestial on every gate and then the one time i slip up boom. Even when the bully is not around i have to waste my time just in case.


So it's not the mechanic, it's that you're just a bit too lazy to bother playing well? I don;t think i'm paraphrasing, you literally just wrote that didn't you?

EvE is a game where the wheat is separated from the chaff by various game mechanics that are just annoying enough that not everyone will bother. This leaves the lazy vulnerable to the dedicated and is one of the main selling points of EvE for many of us yes.

Don't be lazy team and you'll be on the winning team.
Sebs Maverick
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#32 - 2017-06-23 14:09:56 UTC
Let me buy an expensive ship and i lost it in pvp and I think thats unfair.

Here is what you do, fnd a system that is frequented by smart bomber, normally in system with gates that are very low or high on the system grid.
Make a safe point 200+km behind the normal enterence to the gate, check things out, if there is a flert there, warp to 0.
If you dont have cloak and they have interceptors? Warp off.
I its a smart bomber warp to 15 on HIM and kill him, you're a t3 cruiser, and hes a smart bomb fited ship, put him down.

Dont look at him as an obstacle, look at him as an objective.
Mephiztopheleze
Laphroaig Inc.
#33 - 2017-06-24 04:47:37 UTC
Gate Pings.
Burn them. Use them. Love them.

Occasional Resident Newbie Correspondent for TMC: http://themittani.com/search/site/mephiztopheleze

This is my Forum Main. My Combat Alt is sambo Inkura

Agondray
Avenger Mercenaries
VOID Intergalactic Forces
#34 - 2017-06-24 08:30:09 UTC
the problem people aren't seeing with gatecamp smart bombing is.

1 is afkable pvp of the highest caliber, it doesn't matter if its 1 ship coming to or through a gate or a whole fleet.

2 it completely cuts off low or null sec, I haven't been able to go to a low or null without running into one of these bombers, you cant warp at range if you are coming through the gate.

3. its not always as simple as you think of just warping at range and killing 1 person, sometimes its a whole fleet, sometimes its a super.

"Sarcasm is the Recourse of a weak mind." -Dr. Smith

Minami Ikuta
Mecha Enterprises Fleet
Federation Uprising
#35 - 2017-06-24 11:13:41 UTC
I agree with the general thrust of OP Xzanos`s argument. Whilst those of the opposing view have made some good sound points, in my own personal experience its just too much effort to use celestials and pings everytime I travel between systems. Just my humble own opinion. I get that others have differing views
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#36 - 2017-06-26 09:15:05 UTC
Xzanos wrote:
I think that the distance from a gate that a player can be while activating smartbombs needs to be increased to well outside the range that you land when warping to 0m. I do not mind null-sec pipe bombing tactics using drag bubbles and dictors. But i do not think you should be able to activate smartbombs on a gate your even a station.


while you are at it, why not also deactivate guns for everyone in lowsec for your safety?
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