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[119.6] Standup Thukker Capital Component rigs

First post
Author
CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#1 - 2017-05-17 16:32:29 UTC
Good afternoon everyone.

In our recent dev blog we mentioned faction starbase industry structures in the following paragraph:
Quote:
There are two faction Starbase industry structures that will be receiving special attention during this time: the Thukker Component Assembly Array and the Hyasyoda Research Laboratory. These structures will eventually be replaced by new Upwell items with a transition process beginning over the summer. More details about these replacement items will be announced as we get closer to their deployment date.


Well today is more details day!

This thread will cover discussion on the new set of faction structure rigs that will replace the Thukker Component Assembly Array structures.

For anyone not familiar with them, the existing Thukker Component Assembly Array structures are special faction versions of the Component Assembly Array starbase structures that provide an extremely strong material reduction bonus for constructing capital components and may only be anchored in Lowsec space. Since most industry has already shifted to Engineering Complexes and we are currently entering the early stages of phasing out starbase industry, we ended the manufacturing of new Thukker Component Assembly Arrays in our last release.

In the upcoming June release we plan to introduce a new set of faction rigs for Upwell structures that will replace the Thukker Component Assembly Arrays. These rigs will provide an improved bonus for material reduction when constructing capital components, and will only provide their strong bonuses when fit to an Upwell structure in Lowsec space.

These new rigs will provide a 7.03% material reduction for capital component manufacturing when in Lowsec. The L and XL variants will also provide the other standard bonuses of L capital component rigs and XL structure and component rigs at normal T1 levels when in Lowsec.
The build requirements for these rigs will be one built T1 rig plus some covert research tools.

The BPCs for these rigs will be distributed from the same Lowsec Besieged Covert Research Facility sites that previously dropped the old Thukker starbase structure BPCs. Within these sites there is a structure called the "Thukker Component Assembly Facility" which will have a chance of dropping an object called a "Thukker Capital Component Manufacturing Technical Data Chip" and this chip can be accessed to gain one BPC (it can provide BPCs for any of the three rig sizes).

Existing Thukker Component Assembly Array BPCs will be converted into these new Thukker data chips on patch day. We will also adjust the reprocessing output of the existing built Thukker Component Assembly Array to provide more materials back and provide one of the Thukker data chips for each reprocessed array.

The existing Thukker Component Assembly Arrays will continue to operate normally in June. Under the current plan the ME bonuses of the existing Thukker Component Assembly Arrays will be phased out in August so we advise existing users to make plans to switch.

These new rigs will be available on SISI soon when we deploy the 119.6 release for testing and we encourage interested players to experiment with them there.

This thread will be the place to ask questions and provide feedback on these new rigs. Thanks!

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie

CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#2 - 2017-05-17 16:36:49 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Fozzie
mr awesomemate
Alpha Throng
#3 - 2017-05-17 16:58:14 UTC  |  Edited by: mr awesomemate
1. Will we be able to unfit T1 capital component rigs in low-sec for this? Or do we have to destroy.

2. Will there be any TE reduction? The thukker component array gave a very big one.

3. Be very careful with the droprate on these. I think they dropped about 1/10 times from besieged before and as a result there were 1000s of these very quickly. Reasonably theres probably only going to be 50-70 citadels fitting with these things in a year (due to their low-sec exclusivity). Please dont let them turn into basically useless loot as they were before.


edit: also what will happen to the old thukker BPCs that were unused before they stopped working.
Tribal Trogdor
Better Off Red
Unspoken Alliance.
#4 - 2017-05-17 17:04:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Tribal Trogdor
mr awesomemate wrote:
1. Will we be able to unfit T1 capital component rigs in low-sec for this? Or do we have to destroy.

2. Will there be any TE reduction? The thukker component array gave a very big one.

3. Be very careful with the droprate on these. I think they dropped about 1/10 times from besieged before and as a result there were 1000s of these very quickly. Reasonably theres probably only going to be 50-70 citadels fitting with these things in a year (due to their low-sec exclusivity). Please dont let them turn into basically useless loot as they were before.


edit: also what will happen to the old thukker BPCs that were unused before they stopped working.


2. It says they'll keep the other standard bonus', on regular large rigs you get an ME bonus, so yes
3. You'll be able to reprocess the old ones and get a bpc out of them. If there are already thousands out there, then unfortunatly there will be thousands when its done :P

edit: BPC's turn into the chip thingy that you can choose a bpc from (large, xl)
Kuhn Arashi
SniggWaffe
WAFFLES.
#5 - 2017-05-17 17:20:51 UTC
Is that 7.03% after the standard 1.9x effectiveness bonus for lowsec? or is this rig structured differently, like 7.03% and only in lowsec and 0x bonus for other space?
Querns
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#6 - 2017-05-17 17:27:34 UTC
Does the Thukker rig have 100 calibration (T1) or 150 calibration (T2)?

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

Messenger Of Truth
Butlerian Crusade
#7 - 2017-05-17 17:29:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Messenger Of Truth
What about adjusting the reprocessing rate in lowsec in tandem to achieve the lowsec cap production goal of Thukker arrays/rigs?

There is a big reprocessing penalty in lowsec, plus the ores/anomalies are worse in comparison to nullsec...

I'm not sure that lowsec mining needs to be penalised so heavily compared to nullsec as its roughly as dangerous as nullsec for mining, but is doubly less rewarding.

Lowsec reprocessing bonus is exactly halfway between highsec and nullsec. In contrast lowsec manufacturing and research rig bonuses are much closer to nullsec levels than to highsec levels. This rightly reflects the relative risk levels of manufacturing in more dangerous space.

I suggest that the lowsec reprocessing rate is brought closer to the nullsec reprocessing rate at the same time as the new thukker rigs are put in.

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Tribal Trogdor
Better Off Red
Unspoken Alliance.
#8 - 2017-05-17 17:44:25 UTC
I think it needs just a little bit more ME bonus. Its only 3% better than a T1 rigged in null. I don't think its enough since its like 11% better right now. Would be nice to see it up another 2% or so
mr awesomemate
Alpha Throng
#9 - 2017-05-17 18:14:39 UTC
Querns wrote:
Does the Thukker rig have 100 calibration (T1) or 150 calibration (T2)?



100 according to chaos leaks.
Petrified
Old and Petrified Syndication
TOG - The Older Gamers Alliance
#10 - 2017-05-18 00:09:52 UTC
Kinda curious why the Thukker module is being turned into a rig and not into a service module like the Hyasyoda?

Cloaking is the closest thing to a "Pause Game" button one can get while in space.

Support better localization for the Japanese Community.

HandelsPharmi
Pharmi on CharBazaar
#11 - 2017-05-18 06:25:35 UTC  |  Edited by: HandelsPharmi
Petrified wrote:
Kinda curious why the Thukker module is being turned into a rig and not into a service module like the Hyasyoda?


I do not understand, why the Hyasyoda becomes a modules and not a rig LolShocked...

Modules can be removed and used again. If a structure is shot / unanchored / abandoned, the rig is lost - more or less.

Keeps the demand on a higher level and makes it rare.
Petrified
Old and Petrified Syndication
TOG - The Older Gamers Alliance
#12 - 2017-05-18 08:04:19 UTC
HandelsPharmi wrote:
Petrified wrote:
Kinda curious why the Thukker module is being turned into a rig and not into a service module like the Hyasyoda?


I do not understand, why the Hyasyoda becomes a modules and not a rig LolShocked...

Modules can be removed and used again. If a structure is shot / unanchored / abandoned, the rig is lost - more or less.

Keeps the demand on a higher level and makes it rare.


Exactly, it can work either way. So why treat them differently and not the same?

Cloaking is the closest thing to a "Pause Game" button one can get while in space.

Support better localization for the Japanese Community.

Maphistu
The Order of the Paradox
#13 - 2017-05-19 17:25:05 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:


These new rigs will provide a 7.03% material reduction for capital component manufacturing when in Lowsec.

Isn't that a big nerf on the thukker which gets a 15% bonus at the moment? Or is this before applying the EC bonus to it?

Also, what about the job duration??? Currently the thukker gets a 25% reduction, how does it compare to the new rig?
HandelsPharmi
Pharmi on CharBazaar
#14 - 2017-05-19 17:53:12 UTC
Quote:
These new rigs will provide a 7.03% material reduction for capital component manufacturing when in Lowsec. The L and XL variants will also provide the other standard bonuses of L capital component rigs and XL structure and component rigs at normal T1 levels when in Lowsec.


1. looks like a 7.03 % bonus in total. With an 90 % bonus like the other rigs, it would result in a 13,375 %
and with an Engineering Complex 14.223 %.

2. the rig will get the typical T1 time bonus: M= 0 %, L/XL = 20 % *1.9 (lowsec bonus)

3. the bonus of the Capital Ship Assembly Array 2 % will be pushed by the rig up to 3.8 %
Koncordoken
Koncordoken Services
#15 - 2017-05-20 22:12:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Koncordoken
So wait.

If I don't currently have a Capital Component Manufacturing Rig (or more open rig slots) in my EC because Ive been using the Thukker array in as POS I now need to drop another EC just to get my Thukker CCM Rig because it's not being incorporated as a module like the Hyasyoda Lab? Not super awesome for the fuel savings if I have to drop a whole extra EC and put the manufacturing modules in that I need to make it work. How many decades before the fuel savings pay off the cost of an Azbel?

Some deeper explanation of how the 7.03% is supposed to be figured into the math would be helpful. I appreciate that CCP is keeping the array in one form or another but keeping it viable would also be great. If the numbers get pushed to hard agaisnt the lowsec indy groups they'll just close up shop, sell what they can and go back to ratting as they wont be able to compete with the massive nullsec groups. A few % makes a huge difference in these markets.
SnoBerry Tea
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#16 - 2017-05-21 03:02:39 UTC
I'm trying to wrap my head around how this is going to work with rigs. You reprocess 1 Thukker Array and get a widget that will make a Thukker Rig. Keeping in mind that the Thukker Array was for all Capital Components (T1 and T2) we get a wide swath of potential rigs:

Thukker Standup M-Set Basic Capital Component Manufacturing Material Efficiency I
Thukker Standup M-Set Basic Capital Component Manufacturing Material Efficiency II
Thukker Standup M-Set Basic Capital Component Manufacturing Time Efficiency I
Thukker Standup M-Set Basic Capital Component Manufacturing Time Efficiency II
Thukker Standup M-Set Advanced Component Manufacturing Material Efficiency I
Thukker Standup M-Set Advanced Component Manufacturing Material Efficiency II
Thukker Standup M-Set Advanced Component Manufacturing Time Efficiency I
Thukker Standup M-Set Advanced Component Manufacturing Time Efficiency II

Thukker Standup L-Set Basic Capital Component Manufacturing Efficiency I
Thukker Standup L-Set Basic Capital Component Manufacturing Efficiency II
Thukker Standup L-Set Advanced Large Ship Manufacturing Efficiency I
Thukker Standup L-Set Advanced Large Ship Manufacturing Efficiency II

So to do what 1 Thukker Component Assembly Array did I would need 2 Raitarus or an Azbel pretty much dedicated to the Thukker replacement. I assume this will also mean that each reprocessed Thukker Array will only give me the ability to build 1 rig (somehow the large and medium sized rigs will take the same input materials to build?). So if for some reason I wanted to build something that required T1 and T2 cap components I would need to purchase up 4 or 2 Thukkers Arrays so I can reprocess them for the prints and bend over far for the 32 billion isk I need to invest to replace a 50 mil isk POS module.

Or we could just make the thing a service module like the Hyasyoda and avoid all this and I can put it in an existing EC that has plenty of slots left.
HandelsPharmi
Pharmi on CharBazaar
#17 - 2017-05-21 14:27:28 UTC
Standup M-Set Advanced Component Manufacturing Material Efficiency I
Standup M-Set Basic Capital Component Manufacturing Material Efficiency I

Standup L-Set Advanced Component Manufacturing Efficiency I
Standup L-Set Basic Capital Component Manufacturing Efficiency I

Standup XL-Set Structure and Component Manufacturing Efficiency II



5 rigs in the end...
Koncordoken
Koncordoken Services
#18 - 2017-05-21 18:32:38 UTC
Thats assuming they are dropping the TE bonus from the Thukker (yes the EC has one but the point of the Thukker is to be competitive wtih nullsec groups). So what you're saying is we lose the T2 rig bonus if we want to use a Thukker? Given that there is already a bonus to ME for nullsec ECs vs lowsec how is this supposed to be competitive at all if we can only have a T1 Thukker rig?
Thunder Fenix
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#19 - 2017-05-22 07:37:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Thunder Fenix
I've just tried to reprocess the thukker component assembly array on sisi in a 52% base yeld outpost with scrapmetal processing 5 toon (only thing that increses yeld of mods reprocessing afaik) for a total of 57,2% yeld....
...the "vaucher" for the new rig is there but unrecoverable... what reprocessing yeld is needed to get it?

and yes please increase bonus to lowsec industry structures: capital production is only thing that keeps lowsec worth the risk!!

other thing you should definitely do is to change the industry bonus rig system into modules/services: it's almost same thing you did with "industry Teams" couple years ago: these are too specialized!!
Actual industry rig system brings an absurd multiplication of structures... with all the maintenance job involved that sucks out playtime: chance it for god's sake!!
HandelsPharmi
Pharmi on CharBazaar
#20 - 2017-05-22 07:50:00 UTC
Thunder Fenix wrote:
I...the "vaucher" for the new rig is there but unrecoverable... what reprocessing yeld is needed to get it?



100 % if you reprocess one single array...

Take 100 and you will get 57 vouchers back.
Reprocess 2 and you will get at least one single voucher.
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