EVE General Discussion

It was probably the same goon who pays for our gank ships.

CCP looked into the matter and found that it actually does not hurt their business.

Also who do you want to fool here? You are not concerned about CCPs wallet or how other players could not enjoy the game. You want parts of the game changed because YOU have a problem with them. Stop pretending to talk for the silent majority.

That's the point. You are sooooo close to understanding.

And you know all this how? You've said nothing against anything I've actually said so far. Just been closed minded by saying I'm some fraud, or my reasons are phony. Everyone speaks out of self interest, I do sincerely believe that ganking in highsec puts off players who have done no pvp themselves. This affects me because these people will not pay CCP money, and accordingly CCPs budget and scope for new features will be limited. I want eve to be all it can be, not limited by some arbitrary decision that player interaction in highsec can only take the form of ganking.

And you "know" that because of what? Your gut feelings?

CCP actually looked into this and found that the majority of players > 99% do not quit because they lost a ship for whatever reason. So your gut feeling was already proven wrong.

So if you are ACTUALLY concerned about CCPs wallet and other players you should probably concentrate on those 99% and not the < 1%.

Because the changes you've suggested so far amount to making EVE into something else, something it's not, which means you want something else, something it's not. If what you want doesn't exist, you always have the option of making it yourself instead of trying to dictate to the artists what their product should be.

EVE isn't flawless, not by a long shot, but no game really is. Every last one begins as someone's vision of what they wanted to see in a game, rather than what someone else wants to see. Which brings me to what I've been trying to tell you all along: this game has existed for almost fifteen years. If the devs wanted to go for mass appeal, don't you think they would have done it by now? Everything you're suggesting, don't you think they've heard it by now? EVE is established. When you come up with ideas to improve EVE, if they don't follow with EVE's established core principles, then you won't just find resistance to them, you'll get a good deal of backlash and disrespect because people see someone who doesn't understand the game asserting that they know how to make it better.

So let's try a new analogy, a simple one. Imagine if someone came into the Halo forums and suggested, "what about instead of guns we use water pistols and nobody actually dies, you just get scored per hit and the team/player with the highest score after the time limit wins." This was actually a real suggestion made on the Halo 4 forums when it launched regarding multiplayer. The person making the suggestion was a parent, new to the halo franchise trying to make the game 'better' for their children. The problem is, there are already games for children, there are already games that suit that person's needs, and Halo is an established M-rated shooter. You can imagine the reaction of course, because it was virtually the same as you're receiving here. The difference is, because halo is such a simple game, that the vast majority of people can understand it just fine, and that person didn't have any agreement or support of any kind. Unfortunately, one of EVE's flaws is that it can be difficult to truly ascertain it's core nature, so a lot more people are going to stand by you as a result of it being a more complicated game. I can try to explain it to you - that at its core it's meant to be about player freedom and player choice, where you are the writer of your own story, and mechanics are designed around that core value of achieving that level of freedom with as few limitations as possible, only compromising on that freedom in reasonably limited ways. But at the end of the day, you really have to experience it for yourself, and the only way to do that is to actually exercise your freedom.

The way I did that was shoot a mining barge in highsec. I failed my gank attempt, but the experience was liberating when I realised that I had the freedom to be as powerful as I wanted to be, and in order to facilitate that freedom, I began learning from my mistakes. Now I have a killboard that most oldschool vets would not shake their head at, despite the fact I've only been playing since 2012 (and only really PVP'ing since late 2013).

The day before I attempted that gank, I was on the forums doing what you're doing now, and getting shut down and not understanding why. As soon as I understood what EVE was, I understood exactly why I got shut down. You stick around long enough, adapt and learn, and you will too.

Exercise your freedom. Because unlike other games that purport to give you 'choices' like Mass Effect, in this game those choices aren't scripted, they aren't illusions, they are real, and they have real in-game consequences, of which even the smallest could have game-wide implications. That's what EVE allows by maintaining its core nature, by maintaining its single-shard player-driven HTFU dog-eat-dog trust nobody environment with no instancing and as little handholding as possible. EVE isn't for everybody, but neither is Halo.

For the record, no, ganking does not put off players. Established research that has already been shared in this thread and many others does not support the idea that ganking is chasing players away, and in fact the experience of many PVP'ers and gankers reports the exact opposite, that when players experience ship loss at the hand of another player, quite often (for me at least) said 'victim' will try to learn how to adapt, and even mail their killer asking what went wrong. In my experience, it's often the newer players who are MOST enthusiastic about learning from their attackers, and it's often the older carebears who have stagnated in highsec without losing anything for far too long who throw hissy fits in local and send rage mails. No, we aren't scaring away new players, we're just making a lot of carebears angry. And that's something we just don't have to care about to any degree.

Dom why have you decided that I have to supply you with a list of nerfs?

Because ai know you can't fulfill that task

I'm out

And it's wrong. And some of you types think it's a PVE thing.



Well, we shot down a similar PVP idea too. If you want to pvp, do it in the open where people can get at you. Or go to SiSi.

Your idea is bad because it wouldn't work the way you want, you provide ANY safe haven where people can make ANY small amount of isk, or other rewards, and richer, older players WILL find a way to exploit it.

And it would be bad for new players, because coddling them then throwing them into the lions den that E=is EVE is dumb. for the same reaons that tutorials and 'better NPE' didn't help new players stay. It dampens creativity and creativity is vital to EVE.

I have in other threads listed all the nerfs and buffs and change in policy, I had an excahnge with Shae on this where I pointed out that a count and saying the number of adjustments matter more than what was adjusted was stupid, which happens to be one of the most liked comments I have done. Do you want to go down that route, I rather like you, but seriously mate I am not going to give that list unless I want to make a point about game balance in terms of ganking to people who are open to debate rather than call names and stuff, or make one liners and stuff like that. I much prefer making dank ISK and am only replying while I salvage...