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Trilambda Feature Feedback - Suns, Hangars and Logos!

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Author
krickettt
The Kronos Ritual
#61 - 2017-04-01 04:34:11 UTC
Cade Windstalker wrote:
krickettt wrote:
Please don't simplify the ADVANCED audio settings! That makes no sense at all. If anything, they need more granularity. Things like the UI click and the new gong sound when you dscan should be separated and have their own advanced audio setting.

If you simplify the advanced audio settings I'll be forced to mute it all, and I'd rather not do that.


They've explained why they're doing this and it does make sense.

1. People have complained that the settings UI is too complicated. I've spent more than enough time helping out newbies to know they aren't BSing on this, I can't count the number of times I've told someone "oh there's a setting for that" and gotten something akin to "oh, I stopped messing with the settings, it all looked too complicated" or similar.

2. Having tons of different sliders and what-not complicates their work as devs. It's probably also responsible for some sliders controlling things that make little sense for them to control to the average player (for example Citadel tether sounds are caused by tether, which is technically a module internally, hence module sounds). With a simpler menu they can spend some of that freed up time making sure that every new thing tweaked or added ends up in the right place in the UI controls.


1. Advanced Audio Settings aren't enabled by default. Players don't have to mess with them if they don't want to. If anything, the audio settings are the more nicely coordinated of the settings pages. General settings and shortcuts are the mess.

2. The sliders and their backend (however they are connected to the sounds/action that create them) are already in place. All this seems to do is move all those sound and actions under a few sliders than the more specific ones. If anything, this will create a LOT more confusion than now, and will definitely create a lot more frustration.
Dominous Nolen
Anomalous Existence
Spatial Instability
#62 - 2017-04-01 06:32:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Dominous Nolen
Ember Niagara wrote:

Redacted ascii

In the above example, the {customize} button causes the items with --> to become visible. It could also be represented as a drop-down button. A [+] symbol in front of the category could also help symbolize that it is an expandable dropdown.


I like that idea, it doesn't always need to be visible and having an expanding menu would be great.

@dominousnolen

"Fly dangerously, Fly safe, Fly whatever, just keep Flying." - Lee Blackwood

Kiela Paine
Paine Corporation
#63 - 2017-04-01 06:41:05 UTC
Nothing says Gaudy Megacorp CEO like pasting your face on the side of your space-scraper.
Dominous Nolen
Anomalous Existence
Spatial Instability
#64 - 2017-04-01 06:45:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Dominous Nolen
http://imgur.com/Gwijvd9

Why group things to just those sliders? As many other people have stated above you can collapse the menu when not needed or not selected (The idea of having expanding categories for sounds is great IMO)

Not having the ability to disable my warp sounds but leave 3rd part warp in sounds cranked is key for situational awareness. I don't need to hear my warp/engines/modules etc. I literally turn all of the down to minimal sounds.

How much stuff is mapped to what in the screen shots that have been shared? What is in the ambient settings? Wormholes, Stargates, backgrounds?

More detail is required rather then just a named slider (tool tips perhaps).

As I mentioned in my previous post having the ability to control all the sounds individually is needed for various scenarios.

Please do not put this change through. It's going to make us disable the sounds more then anything else.

@dominousnolen

"Fly dangerously, Fly safe, Fly whatever, just keep Flying." - Lee Blackwood

Kiela Paine
Paine Corporation
#65 - 2017-04-01 06:46:46 UTC
CCP Darwin wrote:
Nikki Canby wrote:
Why even have the face of the CEO to begin with (or any portrait for that matter)?


This is part of a larger question that we've been trying to work through of how we can find ways to highlight individuals as well as groups in the in-space experience, offering an individual a way to aspire to having a human presence in the game. We do have other concepts for this, but this feature was an opportunity to do something simple to serve that goal.

What it means to the corp's members is going to vary a lot from corp to corp. Many corps (including some with the strongest identities) have CEOs who are active players and whose personalities help define what makes the group work. Many corps, as you say, have CEOs who are essentially placeholders, and yes, they won't see as much value in it.

The earlier idea of using alliance executor corp CEOs was a first-pass implementation that was created to get the feature going, before we had a full discussion about where the value might be in having such a portrait on the structure. Player feedback on this mirrored our internal feedback and we were happy to tweak it to make it something a bit more meaningful.

These portraits are relatively small and are placed far less prominently than alliance and corp logos. They're there if you care about them and look for them, and if someone wants to highlight the CEO portrait in, say, a player-produced video, it should be easy to do so, but they don't dominate the look of the structure. If you're not looking for them, you're unlikely to find them too distracting.

The reason that we are not providing UI control over these features is that doing so would require back-end database and UI work that would necessarily involve another team, and would greatly increase the complexity and time to implement the feature.

I personally think that corps with CEOs with strong personalities and in-game identities will enjoy the detail, while corps with placeholder alt CEOs can probably find ways to be creative with their portraits that communicate a mood or something about their corporate personality.

I can understand why this would be implemented, but I still feel that it's a bit gaudy and tasteless... Perhaps there are better places to implement pasting someone's giant face into space?

On the other hand, if you really want to make the game feel more personal, taking Incarna off the shelf and finally finishing that would be a great way to do it! Just don't pull another Monocle Gate. I think the community is ready!
Lauren Vaille
Dutch East Querious Company
Dutch East Querious Commonwealth
#66 - 2017-04-01 07:34:04 UTC
The one feature I'd like to remain would be the option to turn off UI clicks.
That one shouldn't be too hard - I don't mind explosions, whizz bang shooty fun - the limit active sounds takes care of that nicely. But the UI clicks are really irritating.

Other than that, I'm OK losing some of the settings.


Martin Vanzyl
EVE University
Ivy League
#67 - 2017-04-01 09:28:48 UTC
New Suns - very well done.

New Hangar lighting - also well done.

New Advanced Audio = no. Nope. Not a fan at all.

Why?

I now have to turn my UI Sound level down completely to get rid of the annoying continuous 'clitter click' of just moving my mouse across the screen as it moves over interact-able elements on the UI (in menus, markets or moving the mouse pointer up and down the Neocom. Whereas currently on TQ I have turned down the Advanced Audio setting 'UI Click' slider to 0 - to get rid of the annoying clitter clatter xylophone. I also turn down 'UI Interaction' to 25 to moderate the similarly annoying bird 'chirp chirp' sound of moving a slider up and down.

I can appreciate and empathize with simplifying unnecessary complexity, but when your current SISI build is forcing me to mute the entire UI sound element just so I'm not drilling my ears with the above two sounds then... yeah, need a rethink on what you want to include/exclude.

I agree with some of the 'simplifications' though. Putting Wormhole sounds and Stargates sound and putting them into a general 'Jump Activations' makes sense. I'd just also suggest you add a tooltip over each element telling you exactly what sounds the new sliders govern.

I'd definitely also want a slider for the Dscan 'dong' sound... really CCP devs, it should be obvious how many times 'DScan' is clicked by the playerbase. Its a stat that's even gathered in https://spreadsheetsin.space/ . So how could it be thought that that wouldn't quickly become annoying. Dscan is a tool vital for survival in every situation you can care to name in Wormhole space, and mostly in null and other securities of space. Now its like you're punishing us with sound for using it?
Angry RedGummyBear
Lethal Injection Inc.
Pandemic Legion
#68 - 2017-04-01 09:58:22 UTC
Hirmuolio Pine wrote:
Advanced audio feedback:

"Secondary interfaces" combines way too many settigns into one. It includes UI ambient sound (map/ship tree/...) and active UI sounds (scanning, clicking). I really think those two must be separated. Ambient UI sound is just annoying so I mute it. But probe scan is helpful so I can hear when scan is completed without watching the UI all the time.

D-scan is just annoying since that is spammed constantly and it plays on each jump. Just make d-scan very quiet sound/remove sound or add separate slider for d-scan.

Separate active UI sounds from ambient UI sounds.

Nothing in advanced sounds changes radial menu sound. add it into active UI sounds.

"Ship effects" includes almost all ship effects. Too many combined again. I don't want module sounds, permarunning tank starts to sound annoying really fast so I mute it. I want to hear when I land from warp since it is useful information. I want to hear explosions.


Pretty much this, plus get rid of the blanket UI noise for dragging the cube. WHYYYYYYYY
Nut Cullet
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#69 - 2017-04-01 11:28:28 UTC
If you dont give me the choice of turning that ui click off ill have to play with no sound in eve ever again !
Nut Cullet
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#70 - 2017-04-01 11:38:50 UTC
CCP Darwin wrote:
Dominous Nolen wrote:
You know just as well as I do that you don't get a good enough sampling from play testing on Sisi.

Data from Singularity would be inadequate for this purpose, yes. The data about usage of these settings that CCP Antiquarian mentioned was collected on Tranquility.



So u noticed like 90
% off ppl turns of ui click?
TehHouse
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#71 - 2017-04-01 13:03:10 UTC
Limiting the audio options even more is not a change your players want.

I'm running 5 clients at any given point in time. If I can't mute stuff like weapons, the station interior/exterior, I'll pretty much be forced to play with sound off. That sucks.
Hra Neuvosto
Party Cat Enterprises
#72 - 2017-04-01 13:29:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Hra Neuvosto
I play without sounds most of the time but please, give us even more options under the advanced sliders, not less.


Stars look great though I wish the tint was less obvious. A red dwarf for example would still look look white to us.
CCP Darwin
C C P
C C P Alliance
#73 - 2017-04-01 14:22:10 UTC
TehHouse wrote:
I'm running 5 clients at any given point in time. If I can't mute stuff like weapons, the station interior/exterior, I'll pretty much be forced to play with sound off. That sucks.

I don't believe the settings for muting inactive clients are part of this change, but you can log on to Singularity and check it out to be sure.

Regarding specific feedback about certain sounds and use cases, thanks for posting it and please keep it coming.

CCP Darwin  •  Senior Software Engineer, Art & Graphics, EVE Online  •  @mark_wilkins

Dominous Nolen
Anomalous Existence
Spatial Instability
#74 - 2017-04-01 14:34:26 UTC
TehHouse wrote:
Limiting the audio options even more is not a change your players want.

I'm running 5 clients at any given point in time. If I can't mute stuff like weapons, the station interior/exterior, I'll pretty much be forced to play with sound off. That sucks.


It's only the active client settings that are impacted Inactive clients don't get touched

Latest Build shows the following:
http://imgur.com/Gwijvd9

@dominousnolen

"Fly dangerously, Fly safe, Fly whatever, just keep Flying." - Lee Blackwood

TehHouse
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#75 - 2017-04-01 15:18:42 UTC
CCP Darwin wrote:
TehHouse wrote:
I'm running 5 clients at any given point in time. If I can't mute stuff like weapons, the station interior/exterior, I'll pretty much be forced to play with sound off. That sucks.

I don't believe the settings for muting inactive clients are part of this change, but you can log on to Singularity and check it out to be sure.

Regarding specific feedback about certain sounds and use cases, thanks for posting it and please keep it coming.


I've never used inactive client muting. I just use the advanced audio settings to control what each client hears or doesn't hear. For the specific case of the station interior sounds and stuff getting played over themselves 5 separate times while I'm trying to talk to someone on teamspeak, I guess this approach probably works.

I don't know how well that will work for, like, everything else though. I'll try to come up with some more specific cases to illustrate why this is bad, but under the current system, I can just have it set up so I (mostly) hear what I need and not what I don't. And I can do this on a per client basis without worrying about whether I have focus on the right client to hear what I want from where that character is. I very much prefer what we have now, where I have ways to turn down or up (relatively) specific things.

The 'advanced audio' settings on sisi now are just too broad. "Ship Effects" is literally everything: warp effects, module activation, ships blowing up, weapons firing, weapon impacts, engine/prop sounds. There's no way for me to hear _just_ when people land on grid without also having to hear weapons, tank, and background engine hum.

No control over shield/armor/hull warning.

No way to audibly single out a third-party warp.

No control over the UI clicks and beeps without muting it all altogether.

If we can't get a full volume control slider for what we had before for performance/audio engine reasons, can we at least get on/off toggles for the old options?
Ni Neith
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#76 - 2017-04-01 15:19:28 UTC
CCP Antiquarian wrote:

One of the goals was to minimize the amount of work that goes into maintaining and updating the audio system so that the team can focus on issues that affect more players.


Oh yeah, right. Minimize the amount of work for the team so they have more time introducing alienating buzzing, dingling and summing sounds!
Avrora Primogenitor
Ranger Industries
The Rogue Consortium
#77 - 2017-04-01 16:40:38 UTC
The new simplified Advanced Sound Effects are awful. Been asking for MORE control ever since you developers spammed me with "You need to be within range to execute this function". Instead you want to lump even more together? Having the sliders drop down is a better compromise.

As for the argument "it is too much work to maintain".. I am pretty sure the community reacted sour to several audio changes and sound effects added. So instead of making it easier for you guys, making it harder is less prone to having a sounds effect backlash on you. Simply because you added the option to mute it. So the devs take more time to ensure our pleasant gameplay.
smokeAjoint
No Self Esteem
#78 - 2017-04-01 17:45:53 UTC
Need more advanced audio settings not less Cry

** legalize it**

Pitscorgh Padecain
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#79 - 2017-04-01 18:11:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Pitscorgh Padecain
It's really hard for me to imagine that the number of complaints about the "Advanced Audio Settings" group being too advanced comes anywhere close to the number of people who use advanced audio settings that will be cut. However, in good faith, I'll assume that this is the case.

One thing to keep in mind is that people use AAS to help make the sound less annoying or to improve the signal to noise ratio. It's super useful to hear warp sounds. It's not useful to hear repetitive clicking/bonging/chirping sounds. Some people are annoyed with repetitive sounds (e.g., the UI Click, which seems near-universally panned). Please, please let us continue to disable the UI Click.

I know I used the AAS to disable Aura when someone decided it was a good idea to make her chastise the player every time you wanted to loot something that wasn't in range. To add insult to injury, she would interrupt and repeat herself if you clicked more than once at first. Even when the repetition was fixed, I kept her disabled until the super annoying message was removed.

My point is, people use AAS to make your job easier---we can work around whatever decisions you make about sound design to make them work for us. If you remove this flexibility, we will push on you to design sound in a way that works for everyone. This is a much harder job. When AAS is not flexible enough, we will disable sound entirely or play a game that is less annoying.
Coupable Enedrr
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#80 - 2017-04-01 19:04:23 UTC
I sure hope you use all that time you're so eager to save by making sounds we won't be forced to mute