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Dev blog: PLEX Changes On The Way!

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Naye Nathaniel
COBRA INC
Seventh Sanctum.
#361 - 2017-03-17 13:17:10 UTC
@Orca answer is simple,
to "rob you" from it;

Not to mention there is a lot of free AURUM in peoples accounts which CCP want to get rid off,
but then they didn't care about this one which were bought;
Jagged Palleon
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#362 - 2017-03-17 13:35:09 UTC
Tbh this convertion away from Aurum to something I can buy for ISK is good and dandy.

Taking away <1000 AUR is literally an idea so dumb that I cannot believe that there is one professional PR person working at CCP.

I have never bought AUR and also was not clever enough to log in during such giveaway events. So I have absolutely no skin in this game.

If we consider that the AUR amounts you can buy are not really compatible with the NES prices it is obvious that every person that ever bought AUR with RL money will probably have <1000 AUR on their accounts.

Now, I get the argument that they don't want to screw over the prices of the new µPLEX with all that gifted AUR (especially from those Alphas just created for this).

But there are other ways and they have been suggested here. Imo the best one is AUR -> SP, because it solves a few problems:

- SP is time and time is money. Even if you are not active at the moment you will have the free SP when you are again and the paying costumer gets something for his/her money

- The Alpha Accounts just for collecting are pretty useless. If they were created just for collecting gifts they will have <5mio SP and so they cannot go and extract the free SP -> no market shake-ups.

But really: from time to time I get the feeling that the people at CCP have no clue what they are doing. They should hire a person who explains to them what PR is and how to not constantly screw it up. They are just lucky that they hit the ball with Eve, and that there is no one out there trying to push into the same niche. Because that someone with the right ideas could just kill Eve.
Naye Nathaniel
COBRA INC
Seventh Sanctum.
#363 - 2017-03-17 13:42:24 UTC
@Jagged palleon
I agree with everything except one;

CCP exactly know what they are doing... the problem is that they don't care what people think about it ;
Jagged Palleon
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#364 - 2017-03-17 13:50:46 UTC
Naye Nathaniel wrote:
@Jagged palleon
I agree with everything except one;

CCP exactly know what they are doing... the problem is that they don't care what people think about it ;


What I am saying is that they don't know what they are doing PR wise. They probably know that they are screwing people over and know it.

You can only do so much **** as a business. You can get away with it once, twice and more. But in the end it will accumulate to a bad reputation that you will never lose again. Take EA for example or other studios. Yes they have their 13 year old "buy everything" monkeys, but then look at CD Red Project. I have not really played the Witcher but I know that their customers love them, because they don't do this kind of ****. And it even is good for them economically.

The problem is that CCP seems to be playing the short term route atm to rake in money.
Naye Nathaniel
COBRA INC
Seventh Sanctum.
#365 - 2017-03-17 13:55:18 UTC
You are right.
As long as there are no game compared to Eve, they wont care;
Benjamin Hamburg
Chaos.Theory
#366 - 2017-03-17 14:01:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Benjamin Hamburg
Will we hit 20 pages before a dev care to answer us? This **** is completely dumb, it remind me of Incarna. That and the fact your CSM is rigged.

Just by curiosity, I decided to check how much money I gave you for AUR since the beginning: 40$. That's a lot of money just to have space swag - and now you are telling me that any remaining balance won't be given back to me? Seems like the most autistic corporate directive I'v see, after airmiles tried to do the same.

Please do everyone a favor and start acting like a normal, respectable company.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#367 - 2017-03-17 14:01:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Cearain
Now that the new plex dev blog is out, maybe we can hear how our csm "represented" players when they discussed this with ccp? Can we have minutes that cover this? Perhaps instead of just not doing minutes that cover nda stuff do the minutes but then release them when the info goes public.

After all I hear having the csm be a sounding board for this new stuff is supposed to be the real value to players. So why can't we read what they said?

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Yorrick Kayne
Queens of the Drone Age
#368 - 2017-03-17 14:13:33 UTC
Gregorius Goldstein wrote:

Now about the “CCP is robbing our Aurum” problem:
- Players made a lot of Alpha accounts to get free YC119 Yoiul Festival Accelerator
- All those accounts got free Aurum a few days later
- CCP does not want to convert all this free Yoiul Aurum to Mini-PLEX (I guess)
- Therefore CCP won’t convert “low” Aurum amounts to PLEX

I confess, I made a couple of accounts for last years winter festival. I am just gonna buy some skins and will be done with it. But I can understand players that bought Aurum and have less then 1000 units less are going to feel screwed.
Gregorius Goldstein wrote:

- Convert Aurum amounts of 500 and less on Alpha Accounts to ISK or give out a shirt/hat/whatever
- Just DON’T make any Aurum disappear without compensation to avoid unnecessary drama

If you want the players to love the new PLEX use it as a motivation and drop one here and there. Perhaps escalation from high-sec to low-sec could have a chance to drop a mini-PLEX? That kind of stuff to encourage players to go where they didn’t dare to go before.

And I like the idea to split PLEX by 720 to make it one hour of game time each.

Fine with me.
Aegon Cadelanne
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#369 - 2017-03-17 14:17:23 UTC
Con Solo wrote:
CCP is killing the PLEX trade just like they killed the boosters. Magically transporting PLEX through a Vault is complete nonsense. Give an undocking warning FFS. You will get the same result of "protecting new players" without destroying an aspect of the game.

And CCP says "oh but moving PLEX will still be a thing". No it won't- there is now a surefire way to move PLEX throughout the universe safely. This is killing a portion of the economy many players enjoy.

I am hoping this is all a bad April fools joke. The Vault must not happen.




When you think about what a license is, having to move PLEXes will actually be illogical and the "magic vault" would make more sense. One would think that a highly advanced civilization of people would just record licenses and trades concerning them electronically (which means no physical items to be moved whatsoever). Besides... losing billions worth of items in-game is well since their origin is in-game. PLEX is only obtainable through real world money and now it will be treated as a currency. Isk is currency. Does it drop when a player gets blapped? No, it doesn't.
Akrasjel Lanate
Immemorial Coalescence Administration
Immemorial Coalescence
#370 - 2017-03-17 14:22:20 UTC
This drama is silly

CEO of Lanate Industries

Citizen of Solitude
SIEGE RED
The Darwin Foundation
#371 - 2017-03-17 14:46:24 UTC  |  Edited by: SIEGE RED
Naye Nathaniel wrote:
@Jagged palleon
I agree with everything except one;

CCP exactly know what they are doing... the problem is that they don't care what people think about it ;


Sure they care, within certain limits, but they do care. If not, they would not have put out these tentative feelers this far ahead of time. Keep in mind that during Fanfest a tentative and preliminary timeline for processes and development will be announced. That's a clear signal of being careful.

While that might not be exactly the same as caring as such, it does make clear that they deliberately created room for it within and through being careful. This CCP manages its dependancies.


Baby steps. Now since CSM is so silly as it's not a stakeholder, folks who do feel upset and who do have constructive feedback should keep an eye on CCP's questions following the announcement of feedback rounds. It isn't like this is the same CCP as some years ago, sure the plan will already be in place - but the execution leaves room for proper application.



And hey, down the road they'll give the bone they already keep behind their back, and everybody will be happy again Big smile
Alderson Point
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#372 - 2017-03-17 14:49:00 UTC
Sharcy wrote:
Alderson Point wrote:

The vault will totally remove Plex as a commodity where trading arbitrage occurs.

Plex has become such a Trading vehicle that the entire point of the commodity, a token, or promissory note, exchangeable for services has been lost.

The ENTIRE effect of the vault is to return it to this role.

Whatever is said in the dev blog, this was not accidental, and the primary reason for these changes.

If you are a Trader, look for something new to trade.

Again, why? If you buy stock in Google, do you go to Mountain View to pick up the piece of paper that says you own it and bring it to Wall Street to sell it? No. There is no reason why PLEX can't still be traded.



There is no arbitrage, the price will either be homogenised or buy opportunities will appear all over new eden, there will be NO reason to Physically move Plex to Jita, that can be done via the Vault. Traders will be no longer able to Force the price up in just the main hubs, they will have to manipulate the entirety of eve if they wish to cont
J Markov
Incertae Sedis
#373 - 2017-03-17 14:49:02 UTC
Please do not make this change. I have been playing for several years now, and this is the first time I have felt the need to actually post to the forums to express my strong disagreement with a change that CCP has planned. I have less than 1000 aurum on all three of my accounts and would prefer to not lose it. Please look at the feedback being provided by the player base.
SIEGE RED
The Darwin Foundation
#374 - 2017-03-17 15:05:16 UTC
Alderson Point wrote:
Sharcy wrote:
Alderson Point wrote:

The vault will totally remove Plex as a commodity where trading arbitrage occurs.

Plex has become such a Trading vehicle that the entire point of the commodity, a token, or promissory note, exchangeable for services has been lost.

The ENTIRE effect of the vault is to return it to this role.

Whatever is said in the dev blog, this was not accidental, and the primary reason for these changes.

If you are a Trader, look for something new to trade.

Again, why? If you buy stock in Google, do you go to Mountain View to pick up the piece of paper that says you own it and bring it to Wall Street to sell it? No. There is no reason why PLEX can't still be traded.



There is no arbitrage, the price will either be homogenised or buy opportunities will appear all over new eden, there will be NO reason to Physically move Plex to Jita, that can be done via the Vault. Traders will be no longer able to Force the price up in just the main hubs, they will have to manipulate the entirety of eve if they wish to cont


And this is hard how? It's terribly easy.
Last Ninja
Diversity 101
Domain Research and Mining Inst.
#375 - 2017-03-17 15:23:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Last Ninja
In what world is it acceptable to straight up remove the balance of a customer? If a bank did this when converting from IRE£ to € for all balances under 5£ there would have been riots at the bank!
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#376 - 2017-03-17 15:29:11 UTC
Capqu wrote:
do you know how crazy that sounds when a company is willing to do things as scumbag and shady as this?

Just imagine how crazy it looks when lots of players are going to visit FanFest and befriend with members of this company Shocked

This is completely new level of sheepness:
CCP: "they are cash cow for our side projects"
Players: we love CCP!
Lol

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
DARK LORIAN
NNuuggss
#377 - 2017-03-17 15:37:42 UTC
i like the changes to come
Jebidus Skari
Comply Or Die
Pandemic Horde
#378 - 2017-03-17 15:42:51 UTC
Nave Olswin wrote:
Def Monk wrote:
So, 500 plex works out to be 1hr, 26min, 24 seconds of game time per PLEX. Why not convert them all to 720 units, which will make every plex exactly 1 hour of game time?

One nice outcome about this is someone can say "Hey, I wanna buy/give 1 week of play time". And they can do that now. But, then the question rises: how many do I need? With the current 500 per plex, that math is complicated and dumb. At 1 hour per, its simple: 24 hours, 7 days, I need 168 PLEX.

If there's a specific reason for 500, I'd love to know.

EDIT: My math is assuming 1 PLEX = 30 days.


This was my first reaction as well, i like the idea of granularity in omega time, but 1:500 is so bizarre for anyone who uses PLEX as a license extension, making it 1:720 seems like it makes far more sense.

1:720 still gives enough granularity for ex-aurum transactions without being cumbersome, but makes the PLEX to Omega conversion much easier, i want 6 hours of omega with this alt? 6 PLEX.

If CCP is concerned about people abusing extremely short omega bursts to do specific jobs rather than paying for omega for longer periods, then set specific time periods, 24 plex for 1 day, 168 plex for a week, etc. If CCP are not planning on allowing more granular omega access, then I don't really see the point in replacing the aurum system anyway, it wasn't really that difficult to understand



ccp state they are not offering game time in mini transactions
Orca Platypus
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#379 - 2017-03-17 15:48:48 UTC
So, to sum it up:

3 days before change plex price rises 200mil.

CCP: we will steal your aurum because **** you, hey CSM dawgs, you calm them down.
CSM: Worry not, dear players, just buy plex and convert (we manipulated market to have our little share too), you can sell it back when it's done (we will manipulate market the other way to have our second little share).
Players: If we can do it with plex and keep all our AUR after conversion, what is the point of not just converting it straight away, if leftover AUR is your concern?
(presumed) CCP: But this will not **** you, no can do!!! And CSM won't agree, they are invested in market manipulation, we can't **** them over, they may... *gasp* actually represent someone if we do!!!
Nave Olswin
League of Gentlemen
The Initiative.
#380 - 2017-03-17 15:52:36 UTC
Jebidus Skari wrote:
Nave Olswin wrote:
Def Monk wrote:
So, 500 plex works out to be 1hr, 26min, 24 seconds of game time per PLEX. Why not convert them all to 720 units, which will make every plex exactly 1 hour of game time?

One nice outcome about this is someone can say "Hey, I wanna buy/give 1 week of play time". And they can do that now. But, then the question rises: how many do I need? With the current 500 per plex, that math is complicated and dumb. At 1 hour per, its simple: 24 hours, 7 days, I need 168 PLEX.

If there's a specific reason for 500, I'd love to know.

EDIT: My math is assuming 1 PLEX = 30 days.


This was my first reaction as well, i like the idea of granularity in omega time, but 1:500 is so bizarre for anyone who uses PLEX as a license extension, making it 1:720 seems like it makes far more sense.

1:720 still gives enough granularity for ex-aurum transactions without being cumbersome, but makes the PLEX to Omega conversion much easier, i want 6 hours of omega with this alt? 6 PLEX.

If CCP is concerned about people abusing extremely short omega bursts to do specific jobs rather than paying for omega for longer periods, then set specific time periods, 24 plex for 1 day, 168 plex for a week, etc. If CCP are not planning on allowing more granular omega access, then I don't really see the point in replacing the aurum system anyway, it wasn't really that difficult to understand



ccp state they are not offering game time in mini transactions


This was not the case when i posted originally, the original devblog says

"Currently, PLEX is rather large. By always existing as a one-month chunk of subscription time, PLEX can be cumbersome to buy and trade. We think it would be great if it could be broken into smaller units that fit your needs rather than always being bound to the size of 30 days."

hence leading to the speculation that we could see smaller sub times. This has since been addressed in the FAQ section with

"Q: With smaller PLEX, will I be able to buy less than 30 days of Omega time?
A: We currently we have no plans regarding smaller game time packages."

I still think the ratio should be 1:720 to leave their options open down the line, or possibly 1:1000 as base 1000 is easier to maths with than 1:500 as stated by many others