Crime & Punishment

Why yes, those Procurors (and Skiffs) are so, so, helpless.

FTFY.

Let alone the fact that there can be huge disparities between low tier Tank and higher tier DPS including skills which can result in a barge being blown out within 5 seconds where AFK or not would not matter at all.

There is no way for you to know that someone was AFK, maybe simply they were there trying to be inconspicuous and not attract aggression towards them oblivious to the fact that you were out to get them.

Plus, even if they were AFK, since when is that a crime? Who are we to punish people for having been called in the next room or went to the bathroom while the ship was mining?

You speak like if everyone is expected to play like robots, and they should be punished if not. It sounds like prejudice and harassment.

Not to mention that it certainly is imposing certain mindset to other players. your mindset.

It is this mindset in my opinion that is limiting EVE.

I mined pretty much back in the day, not so much today anymore, but sometimes I still do it. I can see if someone is afk in a belt, you get an eye for it, sooner or later.
And believe it or not, I dock up when I have to take a dump or a pee.

Yes, I'm imposing a certain mindset to other players, this mindset is called "situational awareness", it can save your arse in a real life combat zone and it can save your arse in EvE. It's apretty simple concept, tbh.

If someone gets popped while mining in a belt it's always for the same reasons:
No eye on local
No usage of D-scan
drunk or high
The "usual" suspects not set "red" or at least "orange" in his contacts list
Mining upgrade II tanked
Not jumping out of belt if some neut jumps in, assumed they even now what a "Neut" or "RED" is, which I would highly doubt.
Jumping into a belt not using own bookmarks and staying near the entry point
afk mining and also hauling

and so on and so forth.

I have read your words, Sir, and feel we have two distinct visions for the game EVE Online. You wish for a more "just" game, I wish for the game as it is.

I subscribed because of the ganking, the scamming, the treachery. I did not want a "just" game. I wanted EVE as it was...and is.

I never saw EVE as good guys vs. bad guys. I saw it, and still see it , as us vs. them. My team versus your team, and I want my team to win.

The so-called "criminals" have penalties, enormous penalties placed on them to survive and thrive in highsec, as do every mercenary corp. Every would be ganker in highsec, who shoots, is guaranteed to lose a ship, lose security status, and be subject to the violence anyone is willing to use against them immediately after a gank. In addition they are made vulnerable to assassination for a period of 30 days, via the killright mechanic. A killright that can be sold, at a moment's notice. 30 days of penalty, of hardship, which is ignored in most discussions covering this topic.

Mercenary corps pay for the privilege to conduct their business, i.e. war dec fees, and they put their ships on the line with each encounter. While those wishing to avoid wars need only leave their corp, nothing more is required of them to avoid violence from a war dec.

EVE does not punish innocence, because there are no innocents. The moment a player undocks he or she proclaims to every other player their acknowledgement of the game's rules and their consent to those same rules....which allow ganking, scamming, and war deccing in any space, except those systems proscribed from such activity by those same rules.

Ignorance of the rules of the game is no justification for changing the rules of the game, in any game.

Your argument for your vision of EVE, which, if I understand correctly, you put forth, at least in part, for the economic success/survivability of the game does you credit sir.

But, it's like going into a chocolaterie and trying to order a pizza. Everyone is disappointed.

So, I will leave this quote, here, in rebuttal to your comment on empires: "The Empires are losing their grasp......"

Ok, we had this discussion many many times and instead of actually taking the time to investigate the arguments against your position you just start over from the beginning like you are somehow the first one who ever experienced concern for the games future.

Here is a breakdown for you:

Highsec aggression mechanics have been nerfed many many times over the last years. The game actually had its biggest growth in terms of new players when Highsec was much more dangerous than today. The conclusion of all this nerfs are that Highsec is a content-less wasteland and there are only a few very organised alliances left who pirate in Highsec and pose any danger at all.

Today it takes almost zero effort to make your whole gameplay in Highsec 99.9999% secure. Almost nothing ever happens there in terms of player interaction with spaceships.

And despite this you once again call for more nerfs, to make Highsec even more boring and to turn it into AFK mining and mission running paradise where nothing will ever happen. I'm sure THIS TIME it will totally work and bring millions of people to the game because what they really want is not an interesting game where you can shoot spaceships, be the pirate or shoot the pirate, there has to be no pirates and what people really want is shooting rocks and red crosses in perfect security devoid of any danger and meaning.

As some other poster once said:


And it does not even start there. Your whole proposition that there is a problem of players quitting the game is completely flawed. You just assert that people leave because they can't handle the pressure of not being completely secure in Highsec, an effort so small every idiot running on only a hand full of brain cells can easily handle it. You have presented no reason why this assertion is true apart from your personal gut feelings.

And you also seam to be completely unaware that CCP actually looked into this and tried to figure out if ganking and wardecs in Highsec are actually driving away new players. They did not just make stuff up based on their gut feelings but actually looked at the data to figure out if there is a real problem: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A92Ge2S8M1Y

The conclusion:
People who get legally (wardec, suspect, duel, etc) killed in their first 15 days by another player are more likely to subscribe and players who get illegally killed (suicide ganked) are the most likely group to subscribe. On the other hand, people who did not experience any such player interaction at all are the most likely to not subscribe to the game.

It makes complete sense to me. Not because I'm a ganker, but because I'm a gamer. I did not join this game because I heard what a great AFK mining and red cross shooting simulator it was, but because of all the stories of big battles, pirates, thefts, epic player driven events which are completely impossible in other games. This stories and the environment in which this stories can happen in are the lifeblood of the game, it is why people speak about it in awe even after 13 years. How many other games which are still running after 13 years do you know where this is the case?

Now your suggestion is in essence to remove even the slightest chance that something interesting could happen to the players who start the game. They are born into a world completely void of content and filled with AFK carebears which endlessly grind ore and LP which in turn becomes completely devalued for the people who actually start the game and try to earn ISK while at the keyboard.

I forget nothing.


Guess I imagined this.

This was back in 2007 or so, of course.

Mining ships have gotten even MORE dangerous now.

Lesse.

Battle Venture, Battle Prospect, Battle Endurance, Battle Mack AND Battle Retriever, plus the new Battle Porpoise, and the legendary Battle Orca.

Hell, even Rorq's have a combat fit now.

To be fair, Covetors and Hulks ARE basically useless as combat ships, no matter what you try.

Guess you shouldn't fly them unless you are REALLY paying attention to your environment, huh?

See, you apparently play AFK Online.

The rest of us do not.

Sucks to be you, alas.

Oh, and hear that?

You know, that faint noise.

That's the CCP developers laughing at you.

Seriously.

Look up "Ultima Online" and "PKer".

Bye.

Oh, and I don't want your stuff. Go give it to The Angel Project or something.

I have standards, you see.

Your jib sir.

I like the cut of it.

Have a cookie and some ISK.

First of all, to those that say the game is about freedom and is made so that we do what we want, you forget something.

Your freedom stops where someone else's freedom starts. meaning that the you do not have more right to what you want than anyone else. meaning that the unnamed miner has equal right to decide to go mine and has a right to be able to mine without you coming along and preventing him to mine out of a self-established mindset that somehow the miner decided to become your victim the moment they embarked in a mining ship and unlocked.

What utter Rubish!

The truth is that gankers are cowards in reality, that seek a cheap thrill of getting an easy kill from easy targets.

This is not about PVP.

PVP implies two or more sides that are capable of engaging in combat. When you shoot down a miner that is not PvP.

Plus the game provides many ways to PvP, is really PvP is what you seek. You can run Faction PvP, you can go to Nullsec for AdHoc PvP, you can go to Wormholes for again AdHoc PvP, you can join a Nulsec Corp/Alliance for much PVP.

You do not have to "hunt" players who do not wish to PvP and and unable to do so at the moment of your attack.

Lets make something Very clear here, I am not against PvP in EVE, I am not against Sandbox Open Ended environment either. There are many ways to PvP in EVE and available to all at your leisure. What I am against is the unequal violence of people who want to take it out towards people who did not seek any of it.

You say that is what makes you play this game, I can understand this. What I am saying is that many people are not playing the game for the same reason as you.

Can, you, understand that?

Not everyone wants to PvP all the time and everywhere. Not everyone appreciates your mindset and not everyone agrees with it. Many people DO NOT consider that undocking from the station in mining ship is a license issued to you to come and blow them up.

But you know what the reality of it all is too? Most people like that simply walk away and do not spend their time hanging out in the forums and overwhelming threads with their rhetoric and mindset. Many people wish for changes in EVE. And Some much more drastic than what I think is even needed.

Most of these potential players of EVE are not as vocal as the ones who wish to maintain the status quo.

Normally I do not even bother to come here and post. I spend my time playing the game instead. But now I dedicated a couple of days to be vocal too and I made a simple suggestion.

To have a place for all these other people who wish to play EVE without violence imposed on them for its other MMORPG aspects than PVP. And you all feel threatened and take offense, like if you would lose something when as mentioned before the game is full of what you claim to like. PvP.

As for the notion of Full PVP. I am m sorry this is not a Full PVP game, this is first and foremost an MMORPG which contains much more substance than PvP. And I certainly did not come to play EVE only for PVP.

If I wanted to play a Full PVP game I can play World of Tanks/Warships, Spaceships, LoL, Over-watch, any any other MOBA out there. Actually there are others which are more persistent than MOBAs..MMOS such as Planetside 2, Wolrd War II Online, and many Others, and are Full PVP MMO games. No RPG elements no Mining no Crafting no Industry no Economy, no Role Play etc..None of that is needed to have PVP.

Yet for some reason what many of you are pushing here is a mindset which claims that none of that is actually important. And that only PVP is in an MMORPG. This is a false view, I am sorry.

EVE is not a full PvP game. Even is what you like most maybe the PvP aspect, go PvP where Pvp is meant to be played. Why impose it on people who wish to play with the many and equally important other aspects of it?

There is a reason why many people stay in Empire space.

May Bob bless you!

There is no carebear implication here. PVP is PLAINLY defined as "Player Versus Player"

Not: Player with Guns versus Player with Guns.

Not: Player who wants to fight occasionally versus Player who wants to fight all the time.

Not: Player who wants to do PVE versus Player who wants to fight occasionally.

Not: Player who is capable of combat versus Player who might be capable of combat.

Not: Player who is fitted for Ratting versus Player who is fitted for hunting.

Player. Versus. Player. PERIOD.

You can spout all the nonsense you want and justify your whining (hey, whatever helps you sleep at night, bro) but at the base of this all, EVE is a PVP game no matter WHAT you claim. CCP has even said as much and if you can't stand it then go somewhere else. Minecraft might be nice and safe for you.

May James 315 guide you to the Light.