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Crime & Punishment

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So finally people will fight against Suicide Ganks and Harrasments

First post
Jacques d'Orleans
#501 - 2017-03-21 17:25:02 UTC
Zander Moreau wrote:
Hazel TuckerTS wrote:

I love goonies, almost was one years buzz

And how bad do you have to be for Goonswarm to deny your application again?


Hazel Nuts' application to join Goons

Goonswarm's reaction
Hazel TuckerTS
#502 - 2017-03-22 00:50:20 UTC
Jacques d'Orleans wrote:
Zander Moreau wrote:
Hazel TuckerTS wrote:

I love goonies, almost was one years buzz

And how bad do you have to be for Goonswarm to deny your application again?


Hazel Nuts' application to join Goons

Goonswarm's reaction

Awwww jackie dont be so mean to me

kiss kiss bang bang

Sivar Ahishatsu
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#503 - 2017-03-22 01:47:23 UTC
Zander Moreau wrote:
Sivar Ahishatsu wrote:
Same old Carebear rhetoric that has been disproven time and time again.

There is no carebear implication here. PVP is PLAINLY defined as "Player Versus Player"

Not: Player with Guns versus Player with Guns.

Not: Player who wants to fight occasionally versus Player who wants to fight all the time.

Not: Player who wants to do PVE versus Player who wants to fight occasionally.

Not: Player who is capable of combat versus Player who might be capable of combat.

Not: Player who is fitted for Ratting versus Player who is fitted for hunting.

Player. Versus. Player. PERIOD.

LOL!! I am having a great laugh seeing you all trying to pick apart various notions from my posts and trying to misconstrue them in to your own narrative and mindset.

I enjoyed this one too, So lets talk about what is PVP in a more informed and less biased way, to not say ignorant.

I Shall quote, and you can look it up yourself from Wikipedia article on "Player versus Player"


Player(s) versus player(s), better known as PvP, is a type of multiplayer interactive conflict within a game between two or more live participants.[1] This is in contrast to games where players compete against computer-controlled opponents and/or players, which is referred to as player versus environment (PvE). The terms are most often used in games where both activities exist,[2] particularly MMORPGs, MUDs, and other role-playing video games. PvP can be broadly used to describe any game, or aspect of a game, where players compete against each other. PvP is often controversial when used in role-playing games. In most cases, there are vast differences in abilities between experienced and novice players. PvP can even encourage experienced players to immediately attack and kill inexperienced players.[3] PvP is sometimes called player killing.

You can read about the History of PVP in MMORPG games at your leisure, I shall not go there in this reply.

What I would like to draw your attention to however is the concept of Player Killing (PK) and Player Ganking.

Short Definition:

Player killing, or PKing, is unrestricted PvP resulting in a character's death. Some games offer open PvP (also sometimes called world PvP), where one player can attack another without warning anywhere in the game world. A pure PK game is one where PvP conflict is the only gameplay offered. Ganking (short for gang killing) is a type of PKing in which the killer has a significant advantage over his victim, such as being part of a group, being a higher level, or attacking the victim while they are at low health.

There is a distinction between PVP and PK or Ganking.

PvP implies a competition between two players who are able to compete with one another. In EVE PvP happens in Factional Warfare or in Nullsec Warfare.

But what happens in Low Sec and Even in Warmholes is not necessarily PvP it is Player Killing. Suicide Ganks, are Player Killing. Attacking Miners and weaker Targets in Low Sec is Player Kiling. It is not PvP.

Anri-PK exists because Pking is perceived as low, as coward, was criminal, as dishonourable.

You do not see Anti-PvPers, you see Anti-PKillers.

I have nothing against PVP as I stated in numerous times, but since we become more technical in the discussion, what I have a problem with is PKilling and I think te level of it is what discourages many players.

My suggestions to expand High sec and Enforce Punishment system is not there to limit PvP, it is there to Limit Pkilling.

Many keep hammering that undocking is a consent to be killed. Yet players get a game warning when they jump in to Low sec, they do not get a warning when they undock.

the game's mechanics disagree with your claim and mindset.

And please, I have nothing against CCP devs and nothings against their statements, but you need not hammer them either. I have been playing MMORPG's since before CCP devs were even Devs of EVE.

And I am certainly not new to Sandbox full Loot non consensual PvP. It still doe snot mean that I have to like cowards who attack weaker and unnamed victims.

What I have come to recognise during all these years though is that not everyone is of aggressive nature and interested in PKilling or even PvP. And there are allot of players like that.

if CCP wants a piece of that pie, then they better make an environment where such types of players can also thrive and have fun. Because already there are many areas of the game that cater to the PKiller and the PvPer.

But Highsec is limited and gets boring after a time, and player snot interested to PVP and PKilling simply quit. Not because they have not been attacked but because the limitations of High sec limit accessibility to more content for them to have fun with and play longer with.

Some people will never switch will never change. I know of some that did, they started our being interested towards other aspects of EVE and when they got bored they got interested in conflict and that opened up other areas of the game and more content for them..but many others never get interested in conflict...EVE as it is now, condemns them to quit the game.

To its loss.

I am sorry but if you really care about the game (EVE) you would be forced to conclude the same, and only if you are interested in your own game (self) you would conclude otherwise. Or at least come forth with solutions that would make the game fun for others too not only yourselves, or at the least not bash those that do. At least in some hopeful hypothetical way I am not expecting everyone to be mature, it is a game forum after all.
Dom Arkaral
Fly Fearless
#504 - 2017-03-22 02:33:13 UTC
Afaik, every PVP'ers in EVE are PKers according to your definition

Because those who kill always have an advantage over the pleb they killed

Tear Gatherer. Quebecker. Has no Honer. Salt Harvester.

Broadcast 4 Reps -- YOU ARE NOT ALONE, EVER

Instigator of the First ISD Thunderdome

CCL Loyalist

Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
#505 - 2017-03-22 06:54:48 UTC
Sivar Ahishatsu wrote:
if CCP wants a piece of that pie, then they better make an environment where such types of players can also thrive and have fun. Because already there are many areas of the game that cater to the PKiller and the PvPer.

They could also turn it into a Tetris clone to get a piece of the pie of the people who would rather play Tetris.

To say it in your terms, EVE is a game with PK everywhere with some areas like Highsec limiting it but never making it impossible. This is what it is, always was and always will be. It is literally designed that way and it is also pretty obvious that this is intended.

If you don't like this kind of game, that is ok, EVE is not for everyone, go pick one of those other MMO you mentioned which are limiting PK and have "PvP-Zones" or whatever.

You make it sound like PK is some generally bad thing, like all games ever have to implement PvP in the exact same ebushido compatible way you think is the right way. There are different opinions about what is fun and what is not and that is why there are different games implementing different things differently.

I find the arena style PvP of other games rather boring, they limit the setting, the outcome, the winning condition, the participants, just almost every variable. It limits PvP to fair fights, and if you like PvP with fair fights, that is ok, go play such a game. EVE does not feature fair fights. It features war, and in war you don't fight fair, you wait until you have an advantage and then you take a club so big it could kill the target twice.

Do to this open and non-limiting way EVE PvP has multiple elements which are completely missing in other games and change the character of the PvP more to a type of strategy game where you have to plan ahead and be aware of your resources, your friends, the environment, your enemies resources and his friends, even random elements from other parties. All this you don't get in all those other games and that is why I'm not playing them but EVE.

If I kill a miner, this miner has screwed up and he lost at PvP because he made multiple mistakes leading up to the situation he ended up in. I consider all those steps part of the PvP, that player was literally in a PvP fight while he planed to go mining and he lost because he chose the wrong fitting, was not aware of me and my scouts and did not pay attention to his environment while out in the field.

I know you will probably not get this, it seams you are fixated of your idea how PvP should work in all games and there seams to be only one answer. Well you are missing out on some really intense and interesting gameplay and trade it for some in my opinion rather boring MOBA style gameplay where fights are organised in a certain way and are not allowed to emerge from the environment which would give them actual meaning rather than just some points on your character sheet.

It is unfortunate that some players have this narrow mindset and literally don't understand EVE, but that's how it is and there are hundreds of MMO out there for their enjoyment. I find the organised and limited arena style PvP of those game very limiting and devoid of any meaning and interesting element. They look to me like a MOBA PvP arena which got glued to an MMO which has otherwise nothing to do with the MMO gameplay. It's more like a minigame where you can go with the same character. It is completely immersion breaking. I don't know why I have to grind for gear for days just to play some variation of capture the flag or some bs.. seriously..

So please good sir, embrace EVE for what it is and try to see the difference and meaningful emergent conflicts which exist exactly because of this difference and don't try to make it into another generic boring MMO by ripping out the soul which makes EVE the game it is, or kindly, GTFO.
Zander Moreau
Poor Fellow-Soldiers of James 315 and of Hek.
#506 - 2017-03-22 07:17:49 UTC
You know, Shivar, I'd post a rebuttal but you already proved my argument by the definitions you quoted from Wikipedia. The only thing that I disagee with is the fact that you're under some delusion of implications. There are no implications in definitions. You sound like a first year law student who knows enough to be dangerous and who thinks that they're already a lawyer.

"We will bring you love... and by love, I mean lasers."

Pope Maximillian Singularity VI, First of His Name

Kaely Tanniss
Black Lotus Society.
#507 - 2017-03-22 08:02:28 UTC
Hazel TuckerTS wrote:
I dont have time to devote to the its boring.
More fun to chat with you nice people here tho

If you find Eve to be're doing it wrong. Blink

If I had a nickel for every time someone said women don't play eve, I'd have a bag of nickels to whack the next person who said it..