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High Sec Ganking - CONCORD Balance request

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Erich Einstein
Swoop Salvage
#981 - 2017-03-02 01:29:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Erich Einstein
Hiasa Kite wrote:

Depending on circumstances, gankers have 2 - 24 seconds to complete their gank from the instant they open fire. Faction police do not impose this limit, CONCORD do and this limit cannot be evaded (doing so is an actionable offence).


Faction Police are the ones who pursue in system based on security status. The issue arises when you have maxed out your security status and you can still warp around, trailing faction police around in Highsec all day long if you desire. Once you go forth with a gank, CONCORD comes in and wrecks, essentially rendering Faction Police useless against "career gankers" who do nothing else but gank all-day everyday every 15min. They are not prevented for staging right in jita so that they can purchase and manufacture new gank ships without every having to jump one gate with their freighter who travels to 4-4 for materials.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#982 - 2017-03-02 01:31:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
NightmareX wrote:
Still doesn't change the fact that there should be a criminal system in EVE that treats criminals like criminals and not like 'Oh you was bad and now you are only bad boy for 15 mins' system like we have now. The 15 minute Concord timer is way to little of a penalty when you considers the gain you get for doing it.
What fact? This is your opinion, it is a subjective statement, it is biased around what you believe to be true, not what is actually true.

For it to be fact it would need to be an objective review of the available information, as such it would have to be free of any opinion, emotional bias, personal feelings etc, it would also have to verifiable.

The onus is on you, as the "owner" of the solution to the problem that you perceive, to provide a source for verification and an overview of the methods you used to to analyse it .

Thus far your supporting evidence consists of your opinion.

Quote:
Yes, you lose a ship for ganking, you can be shot for 15 minutes by everyone and you lose some few million isk for ganking in a super cheap Destroyer. But those things has no effects what so ever to reduce the ganks that happens. Aka, the current penalties doesn't work. The only penalty that somewhat works are the 15 minute Concord timer. And that's pretty much it. And that's way to little of a penalty for doing a gank, specialluy when you can just keep doing it over and over again without any harsher penalties.
The current penalties are harsh enough that only a couple of organised groups suicide gank; 95%+ of people in hisec don't do it, because they consider the penalty to be too harsh.

The percentage of people that gank is small, and so is the number of ships that they kill.

Quote:
Read over why i have proven that the current criminal system towards gankers are useless. If there had been a limit on hoe much you could gank every day, then there wouldn't be an issue, but as you can just do it forever every 15 minutes, then the criminal system should either use a limit on the amount of ganks you can do in the same way as now without any other changes, OR it should make doing crimes harder to do the more you do it without any limits. Again, work for your crimes. And in the current form of ganking, there is no work for the actual ganker on doing his objective.

That's why it needs to be changed.
You've done nothing of the sort, you've given us some opinion and some more opinion.

Proof requires facts, your opinion is not fact.

Quote:
You might disagree with me, but explain why you are against a criminal system that treats criminals as criminals that does it so the criminals have to work more and more the more ganks they do?

Again, if you steal a pack of bubblegum from a store every day, do you think you will get a free pass to go freely around without gaining huge penalties or even jail time for doing it enough times?

Again, a criminal is supposed to be treated as a criminal, specially in a game that is only about humans flying spaceships.
Because the current system is already working well.

Enough people find the current penalties harsh enough that they are discouraged from doing it, resulting in only a very small percentage of people suicide ganking. That is balanced.

Also capsuleers aren't human, they've transcended the limits of mortality through technology. As capsuleers we're closer to the Borg than we are baseline humans


Quote:
Ahh ok, so you are blind. Thanks for confirming it.

Make effort in reading what i'm saying.
If you've already provided the supporting evidence, why can't anybody find it?

We know what you're saying, you've been saying the same damn thing for days, and it's still your opinion.

Telling us something is so, does not make it so. You keep telling us that ganking is broken, when we look it's working fine.

What does appear to be broken is your understanding of the words opinion, subjective, objective, proof, fact, risk, reward, effort and balance, amongst other things.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Hiasa Kite
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#983 - 2017-03-02 01:35:52 UTC
NightmareX wrote:
Yes, that's what they do and that's what they are supposed to do to be able to do their job effectively towards customers and so on.

Having one ultimate ship that hands down beats any other is really, really bad game design. Every ship in EVE has a role that it excels at. Very few (any?) are capable of doing everything.

Quote:
Hiasa Kite wrote:
Who lets them enter the death trap? Might it be the person flying the freighter? I'm thinking it's the person flying the freighter.

The gankers who can just easly gank them

The gankers are not the ones flying the freighter. They are not hijacking peoples accounts to fly their ships into fiery death. Every pilot is capable of avoiding death when they use the tools at their disposal. You can't blame the game or the other players when you're not using what has already been given to you.

"Again, you are deciding if the ganks are worth it ONLY because of the value and not because of the upcoming penalties you get on top of that. There should be a system that makes you think about the penalties before you do a gank to really see if it will be worth the gank."
Obligatory: Why?

"Again, the ones who decides how much value you should fly around with it's the pilot of the said ship and not the ones who do ganks. If the freighter pilot decides to do a freighter job for a corp that includes alot of items worth alot of isk that needs to be delivered somewhere, then he should be able to do that without having to limit his job"
Wrong. If you take away choice from players, EVE becomes another boring generic grind simulator #218,556. By giving players meaningful choice - in this case between greatest profit and chance of failure, you break down the infamous grind and allow all manner of positive player interactions to take place.

"and doing his job poorly"
If you're making a profit by getting your goods to their destination safely, you're not doing your job poorly.

"just because the gankers doesn't like it"
The gankers opinions of other players' activities are irrelevant.

"Again, you gankers are denying the freither pilots to do their intended job."
Gankers are a major reason why freighter pilots even have jobs.

"There are alot of things in EVE that has a value that are also meant to be worth alot."
Value is dictated by consensus, not by a single party, including you.

"[i]Doesn't mean they should be ganked just because of their value alone."
Obligatory: Why?

"[i]No, i'm stating the hard facts on how easy it is to do ganking as explained over."
EVE has few game play opportunities that can be described as "difficult". Much of what a pilot does involves leisurely clicking a few buttons. The real "challenge" in EVE comes in our more strategic decisions - our ability to assess a situation and react accordingly, rather than our ability to rapidly click on that tiny, fast moving target.

"Playing an MMO by yourself is like masturbating in the middle of an orgy." -Jonah Gravenstein
NightmareX
Pandemic Horde High Sec Division
#984 - 2017-03-02 01:36:07 UTC  |  Edited by: NightmareX
Hiasa Kite wrote:
That's not a fact, that's an opinion. I'm of the opinion that the penalties for ganking are overbearing and create a false sense of security amongst the unwary.

It's a fact that the current system treats you as a criminal as 'you are a naught boy for 15 minutes' and that's pretty much it. Doing a criminal act of ganking should gain you way more penalties than just being a naughty boy for 15 mins.

Hiasa Kite wrote:
The 15 minute timer is a game mechanic which CCP controls. The gains from piracy are not, which CCP do not control. You can't fix the latter by tweaking the former.

Yes, the Concord timer is something CCP controls. And they also are the ones who are the ones who can change that for the better if there are many ideas on how to improve it, like this topic is meant for in the first place.

Hiasa Kite wrote:
OK. Go kill someone that deserves some death in HiSec.

No? Looks like those deterrents are doing something after all.

LOL, you didn't even give me an argument on why i was wrong on that one. Does that mean i'm right that the current penalties has no effects on punishing the gankers enough?

Hiasa Kite wrote:
Oh look, it's the root of the One More Nerf argument: "Ganking is fine, I just think there is an issue with..."

Ganking is fine which this topic clearly states. But because you are stubborn and can't read, you still haven't figured out that this topic and what i'm saying has nothing to do with the actual ganking in itself, but what kind of penalties and consequences the actual players that DOES a criminal act or ganking should face AFTER the intital ganking has happened.

Do you even read bro?

Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:

1: Asteroid Madness

2: Clash of the Empires

3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Erich Einstein
Swoop Salvage
#985 - 2017-03-02 01:41:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Erich Einstein
Thank you for continually bumping my OP. It continues to receive more likes and attention.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#986 - 2017-03-02 01:43:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
NightmareX wrote:
It's a fact that the current system treats you as a criminal as 'you are a naught boy for 15 minutes' and that's pretty much it.
Not bad. you forgot about the drop in sec status becoming being shoot on sight due to it, and all the other things that go with it. I'll give you 2.5/10 for including a partial truth.

Quote:
Doing a criminal act of ganking should gain you way more penalties than just being a naughty boy for 15 mins.
This is opinion, why is yours so much more important than anybody else's?

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#987 - 2017-03-02 01:44:39 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
NightmareX wrote:

It's a fact that the current system treats you as a criminal as 'you are a naught boy for 15 minutes' and that's pretty much it. Doing a criminal act of ganking should gain you way more penalties than just being a naughty boy for 15 mins.


  • Ship destroyed by a force that cannot be tanked, cannot be avoided and which will both jam and neut you dry near instantly upon spawning.

  • 6-19 seconds to carry out their hostile actions

  • Security standing hit for every target they kill

  • No insurance payout for their ship loss

  • 15 minute timer where if they undock or enter a new ship in space CONCORD will attack and destroy their ship

  • any loot that drops has a 50/50 chance of being destroyed per stack of items

  • killrights are placed against them that can be sold on the open market or claimed at any point.

  • When their security status hits -5 they can be openly attacked by anyone

  • at -5 security status the faction police and gate guns will also open fire, web and scram

  • assuming the same tactics are employed that gankers use, the gank ship will be profitable itself to gank (up to 18 mil drop + salvage for the bomber, 46 mil + salvage for the talos, 7 mil + salvage for the catalyst)

  • any loot will need to be scooped by a hauler which will be put at risk.

  • attempting to avoid concord is a bannable offence

  • attempting to avoid negative sec status by deleting your character is a bannable offence

  • Cost to improve your security status from -10 using tags currently stands at 308,373,365.59 isk

  • No guarantee the attack will work

    • Thats quite a list of punishments and risks they face.

    Compare to that the freighters 0.20% chance of getting ganked over 1.7 million highsec gates is somewhat laughable.
    Erich Einstein
    Swoop Salvage
    #988 - 2017-03-02 01:48:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Erich Einstein
    baltec1 wrote:
    NightmareX wrote:

    It's a fact that the current system treats you as a criminal as 'you are a naught boy for 15 minutes' and that's pretty much it. Doing a criminal act of ganking should gain you way more penalties than just being a naughty boy for 15 mins.


  • Ship destroyed by a force that cannot be tanked, cannot be avoided and which will both jam and neut you dry near instantly upon spawning.

  • 6-19 seconds to carry out their hostile actions

  • Security standing hit for every target they kill

  • No insurance payout for their ship loss

  • 15 minute timer where if they undock or enter a new ship in space CONCORD will attack and destroy their ship

  • any loot that drops has a 50/50 chance of being destroyed per stack of items

  • killrights are placed against them that can be sold on the open market or claimed at any point.

  • When their security status hits -5 they can be openly attacked by anyone

  • at -5 security status the faction police and gate guns will also open fire, web and scram

  • assuming the same tactics are employed that gankers use, the gank ship will be profitable itself to gank (up to 18 mil drop + salvage for the bomber, 46 mil + salvage for the talos, 7 mil + salvage for the catalyst)

  • any loot will need to be scooped by a hauler which will be put at risk.

  • attempting to avoid concord is a bannable offence

  • attempting to avoid negative sec status by deleting your character is a bannable offence

  • Cost to improve your security status from -10 using tags currently stands at 308,373,365.59 isk

  • No guarantee the attack will work

    • Thats quite a list of punishments and risks they face.

    Compare to that the freighters 0.20% chance of getting ganked over 1.7 million highsec gates is somewhat laughable.


    We all know this... you are not educating anyone here. This has been talked about already. Trolling it doesnt make it more important. You know there are 50 pages of content right.
    NightmareX
    Pandemic Horde High Sec Division
    #989 - 2017-03-02 01:49:32 UTC  |  Edited by: NightmareX
    Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
    What fact? This is your opinion, it is a subjective statement, it is biased around what you believe to be true, not what is actually true.

    For it to be fact it would need to be an objective review of the available information, as such it would have to be free of any opinion, emotional bias, personal feelings etc, it would also have to verifiable.

    The onus is on you, as the "owner" of the solution to the problem that you perceive, to provide a source for verification and an overview of the methods you used to to analysis it .

    Thus far your supporting evidence consists of your opinion.

    It's the hard facts that losing a cheap Destroyer and only gets a 15 minute waiting timer isn't considered a punishment for the types of objectives they have. Not even the fact that everyone can shoot you for 15 minutes either isn't going to make the ganking in it self ANY harder at all, because no one is going to ever catch you in 99.9% of all times you undock and before you do the actial ganking. The only thing that works against the gankers are the 15 minute Concord timer which again is way to little risk compared to what you gain.

    So explain to me why a lame 15 minute timer is a good enough of a punishment for the gankers?

    Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
    The current penalties are harsh enough that only a couple of organised groups suicide gank; 95%+ of people in hisec don't do it, because they consider the penalty to be too harsh.

    The percentage of people that gank is small, and so is the number of ships that they kill.

    Read over. The penalties are useless except for the lil 15 minute Concord timer. And a lil 15 minute Concord timer isn't even considered a real punishment. It's just a waiting game, not a punishment.

    Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
    You've done nothing of the sort, you've given us some opinion and some more opinion.

    Proof requires facts, your opinion is not fact.

    I have given an idea on a system that you barely have been able to counter argument against. You use a lame and aggressive tone in your discussion here and drags in tons of other things that has nothing to do with the penalties that a criminal should face for doing more and more crimes that is the ONLY thing i'm talking about.

    Grow up or don't do arguments here if you are not here to argument, but to be a troll with lame arguments.

    Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
    Because the current system is already working well.

    Enough people find the current penalties harsh enough that they are discouraged from doing it, resulting in only a very small percentage of people suicide ganking. That is balanced.

    Also capsuleers aren't human, they've transcended the limits of mortality through technology. As capsuleers we're closer to the Borg than we are baseline humans

    Ofc you will say the current system is working, because you are a lame ganker abusing an outdated system to gain in massive profits for no risk and barly any work. Ofc you don't want that to be changed so you have to make some more efforts in your criminal activity.

    I'm not stupid if you think i'am that.

    Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
    If you've already provided the supporting evidence, why can't anybody find it?

    We know what you're saying, you've been saying the same damn thing for days, and it's still your opinion.

    Telling us something is so, does not make it so. You keep telling us that ganking is broken, when we look at it's working fine.

    What does appear to be broken is your understanding of the words opinion, subjective, objective, proof, fact, risk, reward, effort and balance, amongst other things.

    My evidences are in what i'm saying about how criminals should be treated as. A criminal shouldn't just be a naughty boy for 15 minutes and then be back doing same crimes over and over without facing more penalties. It's logic that criminals will face harsher penalties the more crimes they do. It's normal practice to do against criminals.

    Yes, it's also only your opiniopn that my idea wont work, but that's just because you are a ganker and don't want to make some more effort in your criminal activities to be able to get into high sec without problems.

    Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:

    1: Asteroid Madness

    2: Clash of the Empires

    3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
    baltec1
    Bat Country
    Pandemic Horde
    #990 - 2017-03-02 01:52:29 UTC
    Erich Einstein wrote:


    We all know this... you are not educating anyone here. This has been talked about already. Trolling it doesnt make it more important. You know there are 50 pages of content right.


    Clearly some do not know this because they keep on insisting there are no risks or punishments for ganking.
    NightmareX
    Pandemic Horde High Sec Division
    #991 - 2017-03-02 01:53:00 UTC  |  Edited by: NightmareX
    Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
    Not bad. you forgot about the drop in sec status becoming being shoot on sight due to it, and all the other things that go with it. I'll give you 2.5/10 for including a partial truth.

    A drop in sec status wont prevent you in ANY types of form from undocking a new ship and gank someone with a small ship. Sec status doesn't matter in this case. Again, you should work more for your criminal acts.

    But hey, ignorance is bliss.

    Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
    This is opinion, why is yours so much more important than anybody else's?

    No, it's a fact that a 15 minute naughty boy timer should be more than just that when you as a ganker don't gain ANY penalties what so ever for what you are doing except for a 15 minute waiting game which isn't a penalty in the first place for you.

    Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:

    1: Asteroid Madness

    2: Clash of the Empires

    3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
    Erich Einstein
    Swoop Salvage
    #992 - 2017-03-02 01:55:08 UTC
    baltec1 wrote:
    Erich Einstein wrote:


    We all know this... you are not educating anyone here. This has been talked about already. Trolling it doesnt make it more important. You know there are 50 pages of content right.


    Clearly some do not know this because they keep on insisting there are no risks or punishments for ganking.

    Is it really worth arguing with one person. Wouldn't you just rather be playing EVE at this point.
    Jonah Gravenstein
    Machiavellian Space Bastards
    #993 - 2017-03-02 01:56:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
    Erich Einstein wrote:
    baltec1 wrote:
    ~list of consequences~

    Compare to that the freighters 0.20% chance of getting ganked over 1.7 million highsec gates is somewhat laughable.


    We all know this... you are not educating anyone here. This has been talked about already. Trolling it doesnt make it more important. You know there is 50 pages of content right.
    Why are these consequences for ganking not adequate?

    Taking into account the game lore, the game premise, the long standing history of the game and the fact that it is a game; what metric of justice are you using?

    In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

    New Player FAQ

    Feyd's Survival Pack
    Hiasa Kite
    Brutor Tribe
    Minmatar Republic
    #994 - 2017-03-02 01:57:06 UTC
    NightmareX wrote:
    Hiasa Kite wrote:
    The harder ganking becomes, the fewer people will engage in it for profit.

    As of this writing, in the last 24 hours, there has been one, ONE suicide gank on a freighter in HiSec.

    And you think that suicide ganking of high value targets is so endemic that we need a mechanics change to stymie the activity.

    Really? You're really advocating this argument right here?

    Because you are lazy and because you simply doesn't want to work for your criminal actions. Lazy criminal players shouldn't gain massive profits or gains without taking alot of risks or without doing some work for it.

    But it's totally fine to set course, autopilot and AFK to victory. Because that's compelling game play that's totally sustainable.

    Quote:
    And if the ganking is so rarely happening as you say outside of Burn Jita, then what's the problem then with my idea as you can just continue to do ganking as normal?

    Because it is unnecessary. Why impose a system that attempts to slow down ganking activity when only a handful of profitable suicide ganks happen per day, anyway?

    Quote:
    Yes. And you haven't explained why it would make things worser either, so there you go.

    A freighter carrying 5bil in goodies attracts ganker attention.

    His webber escort didn't land webs in time, Mach pilot has bump tackle.

    (Competent) antigankers arrive, prepared with ECM and counter bumping ships. They might make use of bookmarks and/or fast ships to create warp points on the freighter's current trajectory. The antigankers might be friends of the freighter, they might be asking for payment for their services, they might just be white knights.

    The freighter falls. A flurry of activity ensues. High alpha antiganker ships attempt to blap the wreck before it gets looted, attempting to deny the gankers their spoils. They may also attempt to ninja loot. simultaneously, a 3rd party (or parties) arrive and attempt their own ninja loot - they don't care about the piracy or the drama, they simply spotted a chance for some easy loot.

    Services are offered to escort and protect freighters to prevent similar situations. Players share information about the current activity of known prolific gankers and whether or not known hotspots are camped. Alternative services such as JFs are offered (for a fee) to help freighter pilots out.

    The inevitable destruction of at least some of the loot means gaps in the market remain open, maintaining and possibly opening new trade opportunisties for entrepreneurs.

    All manner of player interaction can happen at any given gank. The mere possibility of their existence gives rise to player movements to hinder or help people on either side of the fight. These are all examples of player interaction, be it cooperative, competitive, combative or indirect. Adversity drives player interaction. In an MMO, particularly EVE who's strongest selling point is indeed the opportunity to interact with many thousands of other people through a space age dystopia; adversity creates opportunity for us to make friends and make enemies - who can later become our friends.

    These are awesome things to have in an MMO and player conflict is how EVE does it. It's not only awesome, but it's unique in the MMO genre and every nerf is an attempt to kill it off. It's why I stand against it, because I want more opportunities to interact with other players, not more opportunities to simply ignore them.

    "Playing an MMO by yourself is like masturbating in the middle of an orgy." -Jonah Gravenstein
    Erich Einstein
    Swoop Salvage
    #995 - 2017-03-02 01:59:59 UTC
    Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
    Erich Einstein wrote:
    baltec1 wrote:
    ~list of consequences~

    Compare to that the freighters 0.20% chance of getting ganked over 1.7 million highsec gates is somewhat laughable.


    We all know this... you are not educating anyone here. This has been talked about already. Trolling it doesnt make it more important. You know there is 50 pages of content right.
    Why are these consequences for ganking not adequate?

    Taking into account the game lore, the game premise, the long standing history of the game and the fact that it is a game; what metric of justice are you using?


    Thats like me asking you why are they enough? Please explain in 10 more posts with walls of text.
    Erich Einstein
    Swoop Salvage
    #996 - 2017-03-02 02:01:28 UTC
    Hiasa Kite wrote:
    NightmareX wrote:
    Hiasa Kite wrote:
    The harder ganking becomes, the fewer people will engage in it for profit.

    As of this writing, in the last 24 hours, there has been one, ONE suicide gank on a freighter in HiSec.

    And you think that suicide ganking of high value targets is so endemic that we need a mechanics change to stymie the activity.

    Really? You're really advocating this argument right here?

    Because you are lazy and because you simply doesn't want to work for your criminal actions. Lazy criminal players shouldn't gain massive profits or gains without taking alot of risks or without doing some work for it.

    But it's totally fine to set course, autopilot and AFK to victory. Because that's compelling game play that's totally sustainable.

    Quote:
    And if the ganking is so rarely happening as you say outside of Burn Jita, then what's the problem then with my idea as you can just continue to do ganking as normal?

    Because it is unnecessary. Why impose a system that attempts to slow down ganking activity when only a handful of profitable suicide ganks happen per day, anyway?

    Quote:
    Yes. And you haven't explained why it would make things worser either, so there you go.

    A freighter carrying 5bil in goodies attracts ganker attention.

    His webber escort didn't land webs in time, Mach pilot has bump tackle.

    (Competent) antigankers arrive, prepared with ECM and counter bumping ships. They might make use of bookmarks and/or fast ships to create warp points on the freighter's current trajectory. The antigankers might be friends of the freighter, they might be asking for payment for their services, they might just be white knights.

    The freighter falls. A flurry of activity ensues. High alpha antiganker ships attempt to blap the wreck before it gets looted, attempting to deny the gankers their spoils. They may also attempt to ninja loot. simultaneously, a 3rd party (or parties) arrive and attempt their own ninja loot - they don't care about the piracy or the drama, they simply spotted a chance for some easy loot.

    Services are offered to escort and protect freighters to prevent similar situations. Players share information about the current activity of known prolific gankers and whether or not known hotspots are camped. Alternative services such as JFs are offered (for a fee) to help freighter pilots out.

    The inevitable destruction of at least some of the loot means gaps in the market remain open, maintaining and possibly opening new trade opportunisties for entrepreneurs.

    All manner of player interaction can happen at any given gank. The mere possibility of their existence gives rise to player movements to hinder or help people on either side of the fight. These are all examples of player interaction, be it cooperative, competitive, combative or indirect. Adversity drives player interaction. In an MMO, particularly EVE who's strongest selling point is indeed the opportunity to interact with many thousands of other people through a space age dystopia; adversity creates opportunity for us to make friends and make enemies - who can later become our friends.

    These are awesome things to have in an MMO and player conflict is how EVE does it. It's not only awesome, but it's unique in the MMO genre and every nerf is an attempt to kill it off. It's why I stand against it, because I want more opportunities to interact with other players, not more opportunities to simply ignore them.


    you must be copy and pasting these silly pre-recorded responses... LUL
    NightmareX
    Pandemic Horde High Sec Division
    #997 - 2017-03-02 02:06:11 UTC  |  Edited by: NightmareX
    Hiasa Kite wrote:
    But it's totally fine to set course, autopilot and AFK to victory. Because that's compelling game play that's totally sustainable.

    It's fine as it's part of the game. If a freighter pilot do afk traveling or does it actively, shouldn't prevent the gankers for gaining more penalties the more they gank.

    Again, why are you bringing in things that has nothing to do with the criminal system on how that works against gankers?

    Are we talking about that or are we talking about being afk or not?

    Hiasa Kite wrote:
    Because it is unnecessary. Why impose a system that attempts to slow down ganking activity when only a handful of profitable suicide ganks happen per day, anyway?

    It's not unnecessary when this only will go against those who do more gankings. Doing criminal acts alot shouldn't come cheap or easily. Do you understand that?

    Hiasa Kite wrote:
    A freighter carrying 5bil in goodies attracts ganker attention.

    That's correct. But like i have said, this has nothing to do with what you might find attractive to gank or not. This has only to do with how a system in EVE should treat gankers or criminal players who break the rules of high sec.

    The fact that you haven't figured this out yet is amusing.

    Hiasa Kite wrote:
    His webber escort didn't land webs in time, Mach pilot has bump tackle.

    Because a nano / bumping Machariel is extremely fast to bump a big ass freighter out of allignment?

    I know how fast that ship is. I fly a Machariel as a daily basis when i'm in PVP ops and so on.

    Hiasa Kite wrote:
    (Competent) antigankers arrive, prepared with ECM and counter bumping ships. They might make use of bookmarks and/or fast ships to create warp points on the freighter's current trajectory. The antigankers might be friends of the freighter, they might be asking for payment for their services, they might just be white knights...........................

    And alot of other nonsense that has nothing to do with how the criminal system against criminals should work independent of what you gank or how you gank.

    Yes, read over what i have said. You are not getting the point and are trolling by bringing in other nonsense crap that has nothing to do with what we are talking about.

    Go troll elsewhere.

    Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:

    1: Asteroid Madness

    2: Clash of the Empires

    3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
    baltec1
    Bat Country
    Pandemic Horde
    #998 - 2017-03-02 02:11:39 UTC
    NightmareX wrote:


    I know how fast that ship is. I fly a Machariel as a daily basis when i'm in PVP ops and so on.



    Clearly you don't, there is no way a mach can get up to speed before a freighter can be webbed into warp aside from gross incompetence.
    Hiasa Kite
    Brutor Tribe
    Minmatar Republic
    #999 - 2017-03-02 02:13:25 UTC
    NightmareX wrote:
    Hiasa Kite wrote:
    Intel via in-game and 3rd party resources, scouts, web escorts, military/logi/ECM support, breaking the cargo down into smaller, more manageable chunks, alternate routes including LoSec and the use of jump freighters to traverse if necessary, subcontracting to another freighter if you feel you're not prepared to deal with the risks.

    Our cup runneth over.

    So again, the freighter pilots has to work their asses off while you as a ganker can just warp into the targets and do your job without any more work than that?

    Doing any one of those things will massively reduce the odds of failure. Hardly working your ass off. Again, we seem to be talking about frieghters, whose death require somewhere in the region of twenty people working together, scouting, gathering intel and of course, warping in and pressing F1 for the kill.

    You're attempting to claim that surviving ganks is the most difficult thing in EVE while perpetuating them is the easiest. Not so, they're pretty similar in the effort/difficulty versus reward ratio.

    Quote:
    The fact that you think that's fair says all about you. You are a massive ganker that knows how easy and how much you gains by doing it and does everything to defend against, because it makes you work for your actions.

    You know the fun thing about ad hominem? It's the admission you don't actually have an argument so your best fallback is to attempt to discredit the opposition.

    I don't gank. This is my only account, this is my main and the only character I use in space. The other two character slots are a trade alt in Jita and Dodixie and I barely use them because I just don't find trading to be all that fun.

    Quote:
    As i have said earlier, having an alt with a webber is not going to prevent the freighter from dying if some gankers really want that freighter dead as they will have multiple bumping Machariels pleaced out in every directions that will try to bump the freighters out of allignment in few seconds.

    How do the gankers know they really want that freighter dead? The contract it's carrying wasn't picked up by that character, it was subcontracted from another. As a result, it's double-wrapped, so can't be scanned. The pilot hasn't blabbed to anyone about what he's carrying or where he's going. So how do the gankers know that the freighter in question is one they just want, really, really bad and how do they know where to go to ensure they can catch it?

    Quote:
    Again, you are making no sense as you aren't discussing the actual issue of how easy the criminals can get away with doing ganks.

    I'm responding to your posts. You're posting some pretty inaccurate stuff and are drawing flawed conclusions as a result. My responses are attempting to clear them up for you.

    "If you want to have a discussion, then talk about what the case is about. And the case is giving criminals a system that makes them work harder for doing criminal acts. That's all."
    OK. Why do criminals need to work harder for doing criminal acts?

    "Being greedy has nothing to do with how criminals should be treated."
    Correct. So why do you keep trying to argue that criminals are making too much money when the cause of that issue is the greed of the players they kill?

    "Ofc ganks always will be there. But ganks shouldn't come without penalties or consequences that makes the gankers think about those things before they do a gank."
    Obligatory: Why?

    "And lastly. I have explained you in highly details on why criminals should be treated as crininals and not like a '15 minute naughty boy' as you do now."
    No, you really haven't. I have asked, over and over to explain WHY you have come to the conclusion that criminal behaviour needs to be treated more harshly only for you to answer that criminal behaviour should be treated more harshly. Simply repeating your opinion does nothing to explain why you have it.

    "Playing an MMO by yourself is like masturbating in the middle of an orgy." -Jonah Gravenstein
    Erich Einstein
    Swoop Salvage
    #1000 - 2017-03-02 02:15:09 UTC
    baltec1 wrote:
    NightmareX wrote:


    I know how fast that ship is. I fly a Machariel as a daily basis when i'm in PVP ops and so on.



    Clearly you don't, there is no way a mach can get up to speed before a freighter can be webbed into warp aside from gross incompetence.


    Yeah NO, freighter pilots should not be required to run a web alt in highsec to be able to not get ganked. CONTROL the rate of criminal behavior in Highsec by any one person is all that is needed.