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There is a hic there(we blob them quite hard but still, this is a hic): https://zkillboard.com/br/88530/

There is also a hic there: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vtmvlpOPb6Q&t=482s?t=19m34s

And Also there: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CMQ-i_cwtOw

And there too: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3eCmo-S_gaM

Here also: https://zkillboard.com/br/88531/ (quite gay tbh)

There was a Hic here too: https://zkillboard.com/br/88532/ (rip)

There are many more examples but most of the time, a Hic make a gang just unengageable so there is no record of these cases

I'm trying to get views on my youtube channel :p

If you have good stuff I´ll give it a shot. Always nice to watch some well recorded/edited vids. :)

I always use Faction scram on my hic, the extra range isnt the only benefit... the bubble up speed improvement is insane on a faction hic. instead of the usualy 300/400m/s my onyx can maintain 1000m/s with TS bubble up.

Yeah, idk why he thinks people don't use faction mods. Most people i know who fly solo or small gang HICs will use a faction WDFG. One, they're really not that expensive, unless you're a poor, and 2 that extra range is pretty big.

So its quite fair for people to quote the 40km scram range as realistic. Most high end pvp corps aren't exactly lacking in isk.



I don't see a reason why you NEED 30-40km scram on a ship, plus 100k+ EHP. Why can't you bring a huginn+keres/arazu to catch kiters? I've fought you guys a lot, you're not exactly lacking on guys to put in ships. HIC's were primarily used to capture capitals, hence the need for the EHP to tank them. Why do you NEED that high range of a scram, and EHP, and being outside of reasonable counter ranges for things like heavy neuts to kill a battleship, or battlecruiser?

Just so you can say its good for killing an orthrus? Which is the one ship that is largely not affected by HICs, assuming the pilot isn't dumb and rams the HIC or gets under 40km (which it never should as RLML spam and long point range are outside HIC's range). Why could you not use a huginn or other EWAR ship to catch kiters, like has been successful in the past before HIC changes?

Everyone tells me, EVE isn't a solo game, so when I fly a solo battleship and die. I'll get the "well battleships were never meant to solo, you shouldn't expect to do all the things with one ship, you need support". So i'll fire that right back at the HIC apologists, you can't have your web and scram ship integrated completely into 1 ship, you should bring a coordinated gang that has both a web and scram ship.

What i'm seeing is that people are resistant to going back to how it used to be. Having 1 long range web ship and 1 long range tackle ship, because with how HIC's currently are, you don't need a Huginn/Rapier anymore, just long range scram everything with a HIC, so now you can throw in more dps or support ships.

If you say "well people will just run when they see a huginn/rapier etc", then i'll counter and say, HIC's aren't completely defanged, spread 2-3 of them on exit gate, and you should (in theory, and depending on gate) have complete coverage over that gate for scrams, just like you do now. However, it means you'll need to sit 2-3 ppl in HIC's, instead of just 1 person. Something most bigger alliances or corps shouldn't have any issue with. A well composed gang will still kill kiters all the same, its the ones that have been relying on a single ship with an IWIN button that are crying the loudest about these things, as now, they will need skill and better gang compositions to succeed in the same role.

So the scripted scram point range is nerfed below what many other ships can do. Ok.

But all the negatives to balance the former range are going to remain?

If you are going to make this change, let scripted HICs receive reps, overheat and get bonuses.

How about make the scram prevent gate jumps for subcaps?

You can't remove a bonus and not touch all the negatives that only existed because of that now missing bonus.

That at least feels like balancing, rather than a bit from the nerf bat.

You mean all the same penalties that were there before the hic could even scram?


Is this thread just full of new Bros or are their memories really this bad

not really the long point was still used and their tanks made them great bait when it comes to LS and we used them for null camps all the time. only difference was the Gallente recon and EAF were also viable choices and the more optimal choice if you needed scram over tank. Now you will still have a long scram just not as long of a scram

Stitch, with the prevalence of Phantasm's and other afterburning ships out there, you need a long range scram and a long range web to counter the kiters. I would be okay with using the Lachesis, if it had a range of 37-40 kilometers on the scram. That is the issue here. The HIC is good because it has enough range that if a kiter screws up and gets near you, it's dead. They typically try to stay around 45km away. Now they have much more margin for error. Against competent people, even a couple of kilometers difference matters (that's why some people use the faction WDFG).

The kiting play style usually has the freedom to pick the fights it wants. That's why people fly it. If a gang comes to visit, we form up a response and see what we get. If we have the composition to beat them, they can typically run away, unless we have the numbers to put a HIC + webs on their possible exit gates. For example, one group came for a roam yesterday with a small Gila gang. A couple of us responded with a couple of small tackle ships and my Onyx. We actually had fewer folks immediately available than they did, but the threat to their ability to run away made them leave. As soon as the Onyx came on d-scan, they ran away, literally crying in local "HIC = no fun." If I had brought a Lachesis, they wouldn't have seen it coming, but then they would have tried to run once they saw it on grid. Or, as soon as they saw a Scimitar on D-Scan. It's very hard to make people fight in this game.

For someone in your position, you'll die just as often if we bring a Lachesis as if we bring a HIC. You are playing a multiplayer game solo. I like you, but I won't balance the game around you. Same goes for Bjorn Bee or some of the other folks who solo roam. We killed Bjorn bee a couple of weeks ago after I locked him down in his Deimos. The amount of crying about HIC's from observers on his stream was apparently epic (I don't typically watch these things, so I am relying on what people tell me). If it hadn't been a HIC, it would have been a Lachesis. And if I thought the opposing ship might be able to kill the Lachesis, we would have had logistics or other electronic warfare support to keep that from happening.

You are simply wrong on this point. At least where I am at, we fly HIC's a lot. If a nano gang comes to visit, we might field a couple of HIC's and a couple of bonused web ships in a ten-pilot gang (depending on who is online at the time). I've flown almost nothing except HIC's and Dreadnoughts on this character for the past year (I have other alts who fly different ships). I've encouraged everyone who would listen to get an Onyx for small gang fights, because it is just that good. We even toyed around with an Onyx or Devoter fleet doctrine.