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so this is there real future for new players? gate camp?

First post
Author
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#141 - 2017-02-08 12:44:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Yebo Lakatosh wrote:
Recettear Hariere wrote:
What i want is the ability to actually punch back at them when THEY are vulnerable, AND i want to break their nose while doing so, not hit a 10 year old money bag.

Is that really too much to ask?

Isn't it enough to just randomly punch everyone who has their guards down (or doesn't have them in the first place), knowing that if your target has gaps on his defence, someone will exploit it anyways, as that's what people in EvE do?

Seems to work for many, I'll be able to live with that too.


Though I'm mainly grateful towards those catching me, especially if I carry valuables. There is no better incentive to look up certain mechanics and methods to improve your ways of conduct. I'm sure I won't ever be making the particular mistake I did there, for example.

Unlike the poster he's quoting, this guy gets it; he's already figured out that being the hunted can be just as thrilling as being the hunter, if you're wily and cunning enough.

Welcome to Eve sir, your attitude will take you far.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners
Already Replaced.
#142 - 2017-02-08 13:32:23 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Yebo Lakatosh wrote:
Recettear Hariere wrote:
What i want is the ability to actually punch back at them when THEY are vulnerable, AND i want to break their nose while doing so, not hit a 10 year old money bag.

Is that really too much to ask?

Isn't it enough to just randomly punch everyone who has their guards down (or doesn't have them in the first place), knowing that if your target has gaps on his defence, someone will exploit it anyways, as that's what people in EvE do?

Seems to work for many, I'll be able to live with that too.


Though I'm mainly grateful towards those catching me, especially if I carry valuables. There is no better incentive to look up certain mechanics and methods to improve your ways of conduct. I'm sure I won't ever be making the particular mistake I did there, for example.

Unlike the poster he's quoting, this guy gets it; he's already figured out that being the hunted can be just as thrilling as being the hunter, if you're wily and cunning enough.

Welcome to Eve sir, your attitude will take you far.
+1

Not surprisingly, I notice that the base motivation behind the hatred of ganking is the exact same motivation behind the hatred of cloaky camping in null.

In both cases I've always advocated learning how to dodge ie evasion and awareness and occasionally turning the tables of people. I and my corp have used these ideas to kill Blops, gangs of bombers and recons and even carriers dropped on us from cloaky campers who decloaked, as well as baiting gankers with heavily tanked mining ships in high sec (on of the bad parts of the new boost system is that gankers can SEE your booster because he's on grid.... but then we learned that cloaks work and their is no delay between uncloaking and on grid boosting). I've personally developed ways to counter both.

So I've always been surprised when the anti-afk cloak people and the anti gank people reject those ideas out of hand. I always thought that it was laziness, they just want ccp to play the game for them and don't want to put in any effort. I still think that, but I know its also more complicated. They want to be able to DIRECTLY strike back. Because it's not so much the actual loss or fear of loss that makes them hate cloaky campers and high sec gankers, its the felling of powerlessness they have.

I didn't understand, because there is nothing in this or any video game that came make me feel powerless, but others can and do experience that feeling, and what do powerless people do? In real life it's call 'protesting' and in this game it's 'run to the forums and demand CCP do something' which is the exact same thing.

We can learn alot about human nature by just playing EVE.
Ragarak Utama
The Buccaneers.
#143 - 2017-02-08 13:34:30 UTC
An addon from my short gametime (after some trials time ago in the past):

After a while I feel like pvp mechanisms are made in desperation. They're implemented in madness just to force people to get blown for any means. I live with that, but my main idea came from interfering with on-gate-bubbles and 'server ticks'.

The biggest absurd which pisses me off is: A lot of articles/posts about fast aligning ceptor that can run from gatecamps, so called travel fit:) Bull*** :) I had to check it by myself to believe it doesn't exist:P Currently I can hit 1.68align with astero or 1.8x with raptor and I'll get easily ganked in a bubble near m-oee8 because of 'latency' or 'wrong gametick' ? (no gate crashing, i was testing aligns, cloaks and fast locking ships)

Well ok, if they can lock me up from zero-warp mode by spamming their mouse button why I am not able to spam cloak the same way ? More, I get good with choosing the right moment to hit cloak, but when I do it for 'align' and not for 'warp' i feel like i loose timing lol. Probably total randomness caused by lag, etc.

So as I said, to camp you put an effort and you get your insta-locking-machine, on the other hand you do everything to go against them and you fight with server-ticks and cloak timings.

One more thing as I still have doubts, at least i'll be sure: after gate jump (zero-orientation) if there is 180degs of rotation to be made, does it matter or not? (I've been counting secs and it feels like it counts, but some say it doesn't) :)))

Fly safe boys, though it's ironic saying in that circumstances:P
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#144 - 2017-02-08 14:10:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Ragarak Utama wrote:
An addon from my short gametime (after some trials time ago in the past):

After a while I feel like pvp mechanisms are made in desperation. They're implemented in madness just to force people to get blown for any means. I live with that, but my main idea came from interfering with on-gate-bubbles and 'server ticks'.

The biggest absurd which pisses me off is: A lot of articles/posts about fast aligning ceptor that can run from gatecamps, so called travel fit:) Bull*** :) I had to check it by myself to believe it doesn't exist:P Currently I can hit 1.68align with astero or 1.8x with raptor and I'll get easily ganked in a bubble near m-oee8 because of 'latency' or 'wrong gametick' ? (no gate crashing, i was testing aligns, cloaks and fast locking ships)
Moving and hitting the cloak is a matter of timing, practice, practice, practice; the same goes for the mwd/cloak trick.

Quote:
Well ok, if they can lock me up from zero-warp mode by spamming their mouse button why I am not able to spam cloak the same way ? More, I get good with choosing the right moment to hit cloak, but when I do it for 'align' and not for 'warp' i feel like i loose timing lol. Probably total randomness caused by lag, etc.
That's not how it works, people who instalock you aren't spamming the lock button, they're using ships that have an already fast lock-time out of the box, and then using modules and scripts to further boost the speed at which they can lock you; or they have friends with them that can apply those boosts remotely, sometimes both. Next time you die to a gate camp, instead of railing against the mechanic on the forums, ask the guys that kill you how they did it, and how to improve your chances against them.You may find many of the answers to be enlightening.

Quote:
So as I said, to camp you put an effort and you get your insta-locking-machine, on the other hand you do everything to go against them and you fight with server-ticks and cloak timings.
A gate camp normally consists of more than one player, often using a well balanced fleet composition, if you want to avoid them you take the routes less travelled into low and null; if you want to slap them about a bit, you bring friends with you, and use a decent fleet composition to counter theirs.

Friends are a universal force multiplier.

Quote:
One more thing as I still have doubts, at least i'll be sure: after gate jump (zero-orientation) if there is 180degs of rotation to be made, does it matter or not? (I've been counting secs and it feels like it counts, but some say it doesn't) :)))

Fly safe boys, though it's ironic saying in that circumstances:P
As far as the game engine is concerned your ship is a sphere, an align or warp time remains the same no matter the direction your ship is facing at zero velocity.

If you're moving then your velocity and direction of travel matter, this can be used to your advantage in getting to warp faster when combined with one or more of the following: bookmarks, a little knowledge, some practice, various modules.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

Hevymetal
POT Corp
#145 - 2017-02-08 14:17:26 UTC
Also note if the lowsec/null is merely a passthrough to get to your final destination, logoff at gate before downtime then try going through as soon as the server comes back up after maintenance. If it's outside your normal time zone set your alarm.
Keno Skir
#146 - 2017-02-08 15:05:14 UTC
Ragarak Utama wrote:
An addon from my short gametime (after some trials time ago in the past):

After a while I feel like pvp mechanisms are made in desperation. They're implemented in madness just to force people to get blown for any means. I live with that, but my main idea came from interfering with on-gate-bubbles and 'server ticks'.

The biggest absurd which pisses me off is: A lot of articles/posts about fast aligning ceptor that can run from gatecamps, so called travel fit:) Bull*** :) I had to check it by myself to believe it doesn't exist:P


You can't call bullshit on anything mate, you don't know enough about the game to know what align times are and are not possible.

Love it when new players disagree with advice from long term vets. If you're coming from "my short game time + few trials" you should really just listen and learn. Calling someone's advice "bullsh*t" doesn't look good when they have 1000 times the experience of the subject matter you do, even worse when your experience is next to zero.

People use fast align ships to get thru camps all the time, it is in fact very common as you were previously advised. Nothing is a 100% guarantee though, even a nulified T3 cruiser will die sooner or later to the wrong camp. Dust yourself off and adjust your plan, and stop calling things you don't yet understand BS these people are trying to help.
Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat
#147 - 2017-02-08 15:07:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Lan Wang
#TeamTama Big smile

Arthur Aihaken wrote:
"Tama. You'll never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy."


Yes, jita and all other parts of highsec

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*

Darth Kendari
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#148 - 2017-02-08 15:13:57 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Darth Kendari wrote:
http://eve-gatecheck.space/eve/
Nuff said.

Man, that's like saying because you haven't been bitten there aren't any sharks lurking below the surface.



No it is like saying I have not been bitten because I have friends with underwater masks looking for sharks and alerting me to their presence prior to me being bitten. Very different thing mate.
Recettear Hariere
Kittens and Puppies Engineering Inc.
#149 - 2017-02-08 15:14:04 UTC
now...

Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Give us an example of a proper reason for this, I can guarantee you that for every reason for it, there is at least one against it.


...is what you say, yet you skillfully evade the reasons i gave.


Quote:
They're funded by third parties, people from all walks of Eve life have vested interests in the destruction that groups like CODE. cause, for example ship producers, organised mining groups, nullsec groups, other interested or fun loving players, they all have stakes in the continued destruction of stuff.
Point stands, this is hardly their only activity in the game.
Quote:
What you're suggesting is the ingame equivalent of "Your uncle's cousin's daughter's son stole my car, so I'm going to beat 7 bales of crap out of you and take your big ass TV and hifi"

Bullshit. and even if, is that a problem? its as good as no reason at all and anyone will recognize it as such.



Quote:
A reset wouldn't achieve anything any way, resetting the game doesn't reset the existing social structures that exist because of the game. Within 3 days of a reset nullsec would be populated by the same people that it is now, mercs would be camping the trade routes, suicide gankers would be suicide ganking and lowsec entry points will still be gatecamped

.... Its not about people doing whatever they do, its about the ******** amount of wealth that vets have accumulated and that disables certain rather important mechanics for them. Financially effective ganking vs "harvesting tears".
Plain sadism should come with a pricetag, in ingame currency as well as in a bad reputation.

From what i've read about him, this mittani guy you mentioned better has some guards when he's mining if his industry toon was flagged as such.
is that a problem? not really. he has people who will do that. hell, he has people who will do the mining.

Quote:

You can already do so, go bust his chops, and those of his friends, with some friends of your own. The tools for retribution are already in your hands; you could also deny the guy easy kills by following some of the advice already given in this thread.


Do you happen to have a list of their hauling alts? Me neither.
Why should anyone be able to escape the consequences of their actions by switching hats? thats just cowardness.

Recettear Hariere
Kittens and Puppies Engineering Inc.
#150 - 2017-02-08 15:16:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Recettear Hariere
Yebo Lakatosh wrote:
Isn't it enough to just randomly punch everyone who has their guards down (or doesn't have them in the first place), knowing that if your target has gaps on his defence, someone will exploit it anyways, as that's what people in EvE do?

Seems to work for many, I'll be able to live with that too.


Though I'm mainly grateful towards those catching me, especially if I carry valuables. There is no better incentive to look up certain mechanics and methods to improve your ways of conduct. I'm sure I won't ever be making the particular mistake I did there, for example.


That isnot cool.
you can do that of course, nothing would really change on your abillity to act that way, it simply opens up alternatives.

This lossmail i simply included because it takes a special kind of person to pod a 3 day old rookie and not even lose a single comment about it. i certainly learned something from it, but that doesnt make this... ah lets keep it at that.
Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat
#151 - 2017-02-08 15:21:47 UTC
Recettear Hariere wrote:
This lossmail i simply included because it takes a special kind of person to pod a 3 day old rookie and not even lose a single comment about it. i certainly learned something from it, but that doesnt make this... ah lets keep it at that.


i will pod anyone, hundreds of pods a day, what makes a 3day old char more important than the guy with a highgrade pod?

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*

Rei Y
Minmatar Citizen 90483936 Corporation
#152 - 2017-02-08 15:32:09 UTC
again and again? why did you let yourself get killed again and again? something tells me you like surprise, or not so surprise, buttseks?
Recettear Hariere
Kittens and Puppies Engineering Inc.
#153 - 2017-02-08 15:36:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Recettear Hariere
Lan Wang wrote:
Recettear Hariere wrote:
This lossmail i simply included because it takes a special kind of person to pod a 3 day old rookie and not even lose a single comment about it. i certainly learned something from it, but that doesnt make this... ah lets keep it at that.


i will pod anyone, hundreds of pods a day, what makes a 3day old char more important than the guy with a highgrade pod?


IMO
If you're lowering yourself to sealclubbing you should at least have the grace to tell them what went wrong. I agree that its not obvious wether the target is green as grass or just 100th iteration of some vet in disguise who was just lazy. but that answer is included in the killmail, or rather, the fitting in it.
Recettear Hariere
Kittens and Puppies Engineering Inc.
#154 - 2017-02-08 15:37:37 UTC
Rei Y wrote:
again and again? why did you let yourself get killed again and again? something tells me you like surprise, or not so surprise, buttseks?


who are you even talking to.
Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat
#155 - 2017-02-08 15:38:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Lan Wang
Recettear Hariere wrote:
If you're lowering yourself to sealclubbing you should at least have the grace to tell them what went wrong. I agree that its not obvious wether the target is green as grass or just 100th iteration of some vet in disguise who was just lazy. but that answer is included in the killmail, or rather, the fitting in it.


im protecting my space from people who want to shoot our big toys.

however you seem to not grasp the abilities of a new player and put full responsibility in the ganker, i get mails and convos all the time from new players asking what happened and how to avoid it, they get told how to avoid myself and they also get the loss reimbursed. we aint all bad and sometimes interaction with your killer can pay off.

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*

Salvos Rhoska
#156 - 2017-02-08 16:03:39 UTC
Psst...

You, yeah you...

Come closer.

Ill tell you the secret to all conflict...

Are you listening?

Are you ready...?

Here it is:

Whom makes the most mistakes, loses.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#157 - 2017-02-08 16:04:47 UTC
Lan Wang wrote:
however you seem to not grasp the abilities of a new player and put full responsibility in the ganker, i get mails and convos all the time from new players asking what happened and how to avoid it, they get told how to avoid myself and they also get the loss reimbursed. we aint all bad and sometimes interaction with your killer can pay off.

How about not shooting them in the first place? The reason is that it's a source of income. It's easy to justify your actions by putting the onus on the new player for contacting you to get reimbursed (and this would also be the rarest of exceptions). Why not let them off with a warning? Because you know that the next group at the next gate almost certainly won't, so why give up that potential income to a rival? Ransoms are a running joke because contrary to popular belief they're almost never honored.

I have to hand it to you, though - you've developed the perfect meat grinder. The problem is that it also relies on a steady stream of new players completely oblivious to the risks and willing to venture out of high-sec.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat
#158 - 2017-02-08 16:16:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Lan Wang
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
however you seem to not grasp the abilities of a new player and put full responsibility in the ganker, i get mails and convos all the time from new players asking what happened and how to avoid it, they get told how to avoid myself and they also get the loss reimbursed. we aint all bad and sometimes interaction with your killer can pay off.

How about not shooting them in the first place? The reason is that it's a source of income. It's easy to justify your actions by putting the onus on the new player for contacting you to get reimbursed (and this would also be the rarest of exceptions). Why not let them off with a warning? Because you know that the next group at the next gate almost certainly won't, so why give up that potential income to a rival? Ransoms are a running joke because contrary to popular belief they're almost never honored.

I have to hand it to you, though - you've developed the perfect meat grinder. The problem is that it also relies on a steady stream of new players completely oblivious to the risks and willing to venture out of high-sec.


steady stream of new players? lol no, new players have nothing of value so new players are hardly "a source of income", its the vets which provide me with my income when they warp into me in travel ceptors full of shekels, new players are just in the wrong place at the wrong time.

how about you stop doing missions and killing my Angel friends?

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*

Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#159 - 2017-02-08 16:20:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Arthur Aihaken
Then if you have nothing to gain - you have no reason to shoot new players. Oh, right... you're "educating" them. How silly of me. I think the best thing to happen to low-sec would be to turn CONCORD lose there.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat
#160 - 2017-02-08 16:21:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Lan Wang
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Then if you have nothing to gain - you have no reason to shoot new players. Oh, right... you're "educating" them. How silly of me.


I dont shoot new players...

why do you highsec carebears seem to think everyone does something for gain in this game, are you so brainwashed with min maxing that you think people cant have fun unless there is money involved?

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*