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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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Ideas for battleships

Author
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#21 - 2017-02-01 21:59:45 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:
Cearain wrote:


Again
I am simply saying why I do not fly battleships in pvp. Sure there may be lots of people flying PVP BSs out there and I am just not seeing them on dscan. CCP should have some statistics. If they are being used allot then fine there is no need to buff them.


Well, just about every null group has at least one battleship doctrine on the books, does that count?




I think they all have several "on the books." Also I am not saying they are never brought out. Rattlesnakes, Machs and Nightmares occasionally make a showing. As to whether they are used as much as they should be that is entirely subjective. But I am not even talking about fleet doctrines. I am mainly interested in low sec shenanigans.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

Lugh Crow-Slave
#22 - 2017-02-01 22:13:09 UTC
Cearain wrote:
I am not even talking about fleet doctrines. I am mainly interested in low sec shenanigans.



but....

they are fleet ships?
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#23 - 2017-02-01 22:19:25 UTC
Cearain wrote:
Danika Princip wrote:
Cearain wrote:


Again
I am simply saying why I do not fly battleships in pvp. Sure there may be lots of people flying PVP BSs out there and I am just not seeing them on dscan. CCP should have some statistics. If they are being used allot then fine there is no need to buff them.


Well, just about every null group has at least one battleship doctrine on the books, does that count?




I think they all have several "on the books." Also I am not saying they are never brought out. Rattlesnakes, Machs and Nightmares occasionally make a showing. As to whether they are used as much as they should be that is entirely subjective. But I am not even talking about fleet doctrines. I am mainly interested in low sec shenanigans.




If by 'never' you mean 'literally every day, often more than once' then sure.

Then again, I think the best way to buff battleships is to nerf t3s, so there's probably not much we're going to agree on here.
DrysonBennington
Eagle's Talon's
#24 - 2017-02-03 12:45:23 UTC  |  Edited by: DrysonBennington
The problem with all ships larger than battle cruisers is that are all designed for siege warfare of being able to mount the largest guns possible.

In all reality a siege warfare ship unless it has been designed to specifically bring the pain, would have smaller armament mounts located on the hull to defend against simple objects such as asteroids that the larger guns would take to long to traverse to track.

From what I have read about the history of naval warfare is that is all combat ships have their main heavy armament that is supported by smaller more rapid firing armaments.

Battleships are the class of combat ships that have been historically called upon to breach the blockade because of their heavy armor, modest speed and their vast array of armaments.


A BB in Eve Online should at least have two point defense systems available that can be added to the ship as a rig that would automatically defend the ship against any ship firing on it with aggressable weapons.

The first rig would add two Point Defense small turrets and reduce the optimal range of the slotted weapons by , cloaks and

Rig 1 - Two Point Defense Systems - small
Drawback: optimal range and tracking of all high slot fitted modules - 10%
Rig 2 - Three Point Defense Systems - two small, one medium
Drawback: optimal range and tracking of all high slot fitted modules - 15%, Velocity - 15%
Rig 3 - Four Point Defense Systems - two small, two medium
Drawback: optimal range and tracking of all high slot fitted modules - 15%, Velocity - 15%, EHP - 15%

Only one Point Defense System could be fit to a battleship at a time.

The Point Defense System would add to the shield HP of the ship though

Rig 1 - 250 shield HP

Rig 2 - 500 shield HP

Rig 3 - 1500 shield HP

The Rig would be a second shield itself that once the shields had gone down the Rig would take the additional damage being delivered. When the Rig was taking damage though the shield would not recharge but could be recharged from a support ship.
Once the HP of the rig had been reached the rig system itself would offline and not online again until at least 75% of the main shield had been remotely recharged.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#25 - 2017-02-03 13:00:21 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
Battleships have only had it this good vs frigate once before and that was when tracking didnt exist. I have few issues with frigates in my battleships so long as they are fitted with dealing with frigates in mind. Naturally a long range fleet sniper is going to have big issues with an orbiting ceptor at 500m but a brawling BS can make quick work of said ceptor.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#26 - 2017-02-03 13:01:59 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Battleships have only had it this good vs frigate once before and that was when tracking didnt exist. I have few issues with frigates in my battleships.


the good ol days before stacking and tracking Bear
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#27 - 2017-02-03 14:22:25 UTC
DrysonBennington wrote:


From what I have read about the history of naval warfare is that is all combat ships have their main heavy armament that is supported by smaller more rapid firing armaments.

Battleships are the class of combat ships that have been historically called upon to breach the blockade because of their heavy armor, modest speed and their vast array of armaments.



1906 called and wants to tell you about it's new toy, HMS Dreadnaught. Literally the opposite of what you think a naval battleship is, and what every battleship afterwards was based on.

Seriously. Please, spend thirty seconds on google if you're going to make a comparison.

Now, please explain why you feel battleships should be immune to everything smaller than they are? If you want real world examples, should we look at what sank the Yamato, Repluse, Prince of Wales, Muashi, Tirpitz, the battleships at Pearl Harbour, Mers-el-Kébir and Taranto...need I go on?

(Oh god I took the bait again please help me)
Lugh Crow-Slave
#28 - 2017-02-03 14:35:43 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:
DrysonBennington wrote:


From what I have read about the history of naval warfare is that is all combat ships have their main heavy armament that is supported by smaller more rapid firing armaments.

Battleships are the class of combat ships that have been historically called upon to breach the blockade because of their heavy armor, modest speed and their vast array of armaments.



1906 called and wants to tell you about it's new toy, HMS Dreadnaught. Literally the opposite of what you think a naval battleship is, and what every battleship afterwards was based on.

Seriously. Please, spend thirty seconds on google if you're going to make a comparison.

Now, please explain why you feel battleships should be immune to everything smaller than they are? If you want real world examples, should we look at what sank the Yamato, Repluse, Prince of Wales, Muashi, Tirpitz, the battleships at Pearl Harbour, Mers-el-Kébir and Taranto...need I go on?

(Oh god I took the bait again please help me)



Wait wait I've got this.

Small fast craft that would attack them in groups?
Old Pervert
Perkone
Caldari State
#29 - 2017-02-03 16:30:41 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:

Yamato, Repluse, Prince of Wales, Muashi, Tirpitz, the battleships at Pearl Harbour, Mers-el-Kébir and Taranto...need I go on?

(Oh god I took the bait again please help me)


I was about to say that you missed out on the Bismark, but then in reading up (to clarify that it was indeed the big-boned battleship I thought it was) I noticed that the Tirpitz was its sister ship.

TIL.


I'm sure it has been said before in this thread, but I'll pipe in with something on-topic. If the frigates are going to be in your brawling range, then have a brawling fit or don't get into brawling range. It's not about "BS can't kill frigates", it's about "I'm trying to brawl with a non-brawling fit".

For example, consider a Nightmare with mega pulse, conflag, a grappler, and a neut. Add on a tracking computer for lulz.

You neut them out for one cycle, it'll probably turn off their prop mod. You grapple them (since they have you scrammed, unless they're in garmurs or something they'll be niiiice and close), then light them up after their velocity drops to double-digits.

It magically turns frigates into... well... not frigates anymore.

If their buddies see what happened to the first guy and decide to hang around, hey you get a few free kills.
Cade Windstalker
#30 - 2017-02-03 16:34:56 UTC
Old Pervert wrote:
Danika Princip wrote:

Yamato, Repluse, Prince of Wales, Muashi, Tirpitz, the battleships at Pearl Harbour, Mers-el-Kébir and Taranto...need I go on?

(Oh god I took the bait again please help me)


I was about to say that you missed out on the Bismark, but then in reading up (to clarify that it was indeed the big-boned battleship I thought it was) I noticed that the Tirpitz was its sister ship.

TIL.


I'm sure it has been said before in this thread, but I'll pipe in with something on-topic. If the frigates are going to be in your brawling range, then have a brawling fit or don't get into brawling range. It's not about "BS can't kill frigates", it's about "I'm trying to brawl with a non-brawling fit".

For example, consider a Nightmare with mega pulse, conflag, a grappler, and a neut. Add on a tracking computer for lulz.

You neut them out for one cycle, it'll probably turn off their prop mod. You grapple them (since they have you scrammed, unless they're in garmurs or something they'll be niiiice and close), then light them up after their velocity drops to double-digits.

It magically turns frigates into... well... not frigates anymore.

If their buddies see what happened to the first guy and decide to hang around, hey you get a few free kills.


I believe the term you're looking for is "Rapid Unscheduled Disassembly Incident" Lol
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#31 - 2017-02-03 21:30:55 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:
DrysonBennington wrote:


From what I have read about the history of naval warfare is that is all combat ships have their main heavy armament that is supported by smaller more rapid firing armaments.

Battleships are the class of combat ships that have been historically called upon to breach the blockade because of their heavy armor, modest speed and their vast array of armaments.



1906 called and wants to tell you about it's new toy, HMS Dreadnaught. Literally the opposite of what you think a naval battleship is, and what every battleship afterwards was based on.

Seriously. Please, spend thirty seconds on google if you're going to make a comparison.

Now, please explain why you feel battleships should be immune to everything smaller than they are? If you want real world examples, should we look at what sank the Yamato, Repluse, Prince of Wales, Muashi, Tirpitz, the battleships at Pearl Harbour, Mers-el-Kébir and Taranto...need I go on?

(Oh god I took the bait again please help me)


While it does not necessarily need to be represented in EVE, it's still worth noting that while pretty much everything designed as "all big guns" battleships after Dreadnaught, those ships still included secondary batteries to counter small craft. The move was not complete removal of anything but main battery large guns. It was a move from combo of 8 inch and 10 inch guns on the same ship just like nobody fit 1400mm and 1200mm at the same time in EVE. They retained stuff like 5 inch guns for example because firing a 12+ inch gun at a torpedo boat is an exercise in futility. How well those capabilities are represented by drones could be asked. I don't think more need to be added on top of current config tho. BS balance would be better done by making adjustment to T3Cs.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#32 - 2017-02-04 02:06:47 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:

While it does not necessarily need to be represented in EVE, it's still worth noting that while pretty much everything designed as "all big guns" battleships after Dreadnaught, those ships still included secondary batteries to counter small craft. The move was not complete removal of anything but main battery large guns. It was a move from combo of 8 inch and 10 inch guns on the same ship just like nobody fit 1400mm and 1200mm at the same time in EVE. They retained stuff like 5 inch guns for example because firing a 12+ inch gun at a torpedo boat is an exercise in futility. How well those capabilities are represented by drones could be asked. I don't think more need to be added on top of current config tho. BS balance would be better done by making adjustment to T3Cs.



just drones probably not great but drones + smart-bombs and you get a good representation.


(TBH if ccp just changed the name and image of smart bombs to be point defense we would probably have fewer people like the op)
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#33 - 2017-02-04 09:43:19 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:


They retained stuff like 5 inch guns for example because firing a 12+ inch gun at a torpedo boat is an exercise in futility.


Speak for yourself, a grapple coupled with Neutron blasters are great funTwisted
Lugh Crow-Slave
#34 - 2017-02-04 10:42:19 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:


They retained stuff like 5 inch guns for example because firing a 12+ inch gun at a torpedo boat is an exercise in futility.


Speak for yourself, a grapple coupled with Neutron blasters are great funTwisted



Grappler has to be the best thing added to this game in a long time. Can you belive what would of happened if ppl convinced ccp to let them get effected by links and hull bonuses?
Matthias Ancaladron
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#35 - 2017-02-04 20:50:14 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:


They retained stuff like 5 inch guns for example because firing a 12+ inch gun at a torpedo boat is an exercise in futility.


Speak for yourself, a grapple coupled with Neutron blasters are great funTwisted



Grappler has to be the best thing added to this game in a long time. Can you belive what would of happened if ppl convinced ccp to let them get effected by links and hull bonuses?


Or be put on smaller ships, webs are for frigs (wimpy wimpy wimpy)
Grapplers on big old bs' s (hefty hefty hefty)

Surely there needs to be a middle ground one for battlecruisers/cruisers. No?
Lugh Crow-Slave
#36 - 2017-02-05 01:17:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Lugh Crow-Slave
Matthias Ancaladron wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:


They retained stuff like 5 inch guns for example because firing a 12+ inch gun at a torpedo boat is an exercise in futility.


Speak for yourself, a grapple coupled with Neutron blasters are great funTwisted



Grappler has to be the best thing added to this game in a long time. Can you belive what would of happened if ppl convinced ccp to let them get effected by links and hull bonuses?


Or be put on smaller ships, webs are for frigs (wimpy wimpy wimpy)
Grapplers on big old bs' s (hefty hefty hefty)

Surely there needs to be a middle ground one for battlecruisers/cruisers. No?




no

cruisers are already quit able to hit above and below them. this along with the nice level of utility they are afforded has lead to them dominating eve they don't need more help in this area
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#37 - 2017-02-05 01:24:37 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:


They retained stuff like 5 inch guns for example because firing a 12+ inch gun at a torpedo boat is an exercise in futility.


Speak for yourself, a grapple coupled with Neutron blasters are great funTwisted



Grappler has to be the best thing added to this game in a long time. Can you belive what would of happened if ppl convinced ccp to let them get effected by links and hull bonuses?


Bonused grapple on a vindi?

Disgustingly nasty.
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
#38 - 2017-02-05 04:12:36 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:


They retained stuff like 5 inch guns for example because firing a 12+ inch gun at a torpedo boat is an exercise in futility.


Speak for yourself, a grapple coupled with Neutron blasters are great funTwisted



Grappler has to be the best thing added to this game in a long time. Can you belive what would of happened if ppl convinced ccp to let them get effected by links and hull bonuses?


Bonused grapple on a vindi?

Disgustingly nasty.


At least with another web, you won't need to switch ammo from void to antimatter.


"Come to momma.."

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever

Lugh Crow-Slave
#39 - 2017-02-05 05:32:31 UTC
elitatwo wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:


They retained stuff like 5 inch guns for example because firing a 12+ inch gun at a torpedo boat is an exercise in futility.


Speak for yourself, a grapple coupled with Neutron blasters are great funTwisted



Grappler has to be the best thing added to this game in a long time. Can you belive what would of happened if ppl convinced ccp to let them get effected by links and hull bonuses?


Bonused grapple on a vindi?

Disgustingly nasty.


At least with another web, you won't need to switch ammo from void to antimatter.


"Come to momma.."



Something about how the closer I get the more screwed they get and the closer I get the faster they get more screwed just fills me with glee
Kenrailae
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#40 - 2017-02-05 08:44:59 UTC
Higher EHP and T3's 'rebalanced.'


That's what battleships could use. They don't need ewar resistance. And as much as I like the idea of attaching the PDS visual effect to a battleship, it would kill the server, so smartbombs typically work fine.

The Law is a point of View

The NPE IS a big deal