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[December] Defender Missiles

First post First post First post
Author
h4kun4
Gang Bang Pandas
#201 - 2016-12-13 16:40:06 UTC
Honestly, for me its an alibi buff on destroyers, because lets face it. Bombruns are rare theese days, and people who can properly FC them are also not a mijority out there. People will bring a couple of those depending on numbers, usefulness, dcotrines and lowskill members or just fit a defender launcher "just in case" on the mandatory command dessies instead of a gun or a link.
In the end, you might dodge a fake bombrun of 3 and the real run will still screw up ypur broadcasts or kill your fleet.
Bowfingerz
Antex Solutions
#202 - 2016-12-13 16:49:34 UTC
Sounds to me like Hardknocks eviction fleets will be totaly protected now well done ccp..(a subsidury of hardknock owneswormeholes plc)
Nicholas Sirens
Imperial Sirens
#203 - 2016-12-13 19:38:19 UTC
How do the defender missiles works in PvE now? I have not touch the PvE part in EVE for several Years but I do remember there are some mobs that launch defender missiles before. How they have been changed into?

生死去来 棚头傀儡 一线断时 落落磊磊

Dornier Pfeil
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#204 - 2016-12-13 20:16:11 UTC
Cade Windstalker wrote:
Worst cases for this change are either they have to tone it down a little, or it doesn't have a significant impact on fleet comps and things stay more or less as they are.


Except for those very few people who used the defenders as they were. Their tools are now gone.

Can these missiles please have the intelligence to understand what kind of module they are in and behave as normal defenders when in a normal launcher and as bomb killers when in the new launcher?
Dornier Pfeil
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#205 - 2016-12-13 20:18:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Dornier Pfeil
Gizzie Haslack wrote:
50% accuracy or summat.


If you nerf the accuracy to something(50% sounds fine) then you should allow them to target the closest missile.
Menis
Astrocomical
Warped Intentions
#206 - 2016-12-13 21:54:54 UTC
There go's my defending gila fit. What do you do about missile fit ship's now. Can't hit missiles now and I don't fly in Null sec to fight Stealth Bombers.
Bombs were heavily tanked as it was already. Now we have to have someone who don't need much skill to kill bombs? Great idea. Now I'll really put away any thought of ever flying a Stealth Bomber.
I'll keep my PvP fit Gila for sites tho. Just have to give up the idea that another Missile fit ship can be avoided in a fight.


Another bad idea I think, But hey. We are all full of ideas these day's. IdeaIdea
Harenax
Reckless-Endangerment
Shoot First.
#207 - 2016-12-13 23:08:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Harenax
CCP Larrikin wrote:
Altrue wrote:
These missiles shouldn't do enough damage to oneshot a bomb. Why not have bombs take two hits to explode for instance?

Given the random nature of the defender-to-bomb targeting, this would make defender missiles mostly useless, unless used en-mass.


So you are admitting that the update that you just did is completely friggin useless anyway because no one in there right mind is going to field a fleet with bomber counters because of how nerfed they already are? That bombers bar fleet that took out that fleet in M-0 was a freak accident you wont see for years again.

Thanks for wasting everyones time, yet again CCP.

edit:quoted poorly
Dajat Lemmont
Ionization Technologies
#208 - 2016-12-14 01:41:11 UTC
Starrakatt wrote:
Dantelion Shinoni wrote:
Create a new class of Destroyers, Utility Destroyers or whatever, if you really want a Defender Missile bonus for Destroyers, no need to muddle Command Destroyers to do so.

We don't need more Destroyers, or in fact small ships love, we need CCP to fix T3c, BLOPS and Battleships.

I think CCP is trying to get Alpha clones involved in fleet as Dessie's pilot with a use, thus the Defender Missiles change (fine enough) and the use of combined fleets (ok).

However, as already stated, Dessies will just be alphaed off the field before Bombers commit. Looks to me like another indirect atempt to fix Battleship's vulnerabilities while trying to not actually touch Battleships.

IMHO, Defenders would have seen such a better use as a battleship module.



DIDO, This should be a Battleship Module. And there should be a skill to shorten the cycle time.
Lonewolf174
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#209 - 2016-12-14 07:20:07 UTC
Capqu wrote:


make them target drones or anyone using ecm on you instead


What he said.

better use for defenders, bombs are great, and need to see more use again. And thats from someone who is usually on the recieving end.
Gizzie Haslack
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#210 - 2016-12-14 11:01:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Gizzie Haslack
Lonewolf174 wrote:
Capqu wrote:


make them target drones or anyone using ecm on you instead


What he said.

Better use for defenders, bombs are great, and need to see more use again. And thats from someone who is usually on the recieving end.



Just to play Devil's Advocate:

T1 bombs, 3 of, incoming. That's your drones & frigates going pop on wave 1. Pods go on wave 2 ( all those expensive implants ). Possibly dessies too.

T4 bombs kill battleships ( focused ), or can blap cruisers & dessies en-masse ( using non-focused bombs ) if done in waves.


Bombs are some scary shiznit.


I'd love to see more bombs going on. 3-4 Suicide Bombers could pop a fleet of 40-odd Frigates if well placed ( including those expensive pods that no-one insures ). And all it takes is a small wing of 3-4 Bombers getting the surprise factor with some general Voids ( not focused ).


So how do you guard against that?


You can make fun little Cloaky Destroyers, so Defender Missiles could be used by fleets ( including Bomber's Bar themselves ).


Indeed.


.


It's all fun & games until no-one can afford to fly in the fun stuff anymore. That's still my main fear. I don't mind paying a subscription, or buying the odd top-up PLEX once every couple of months; but if you need mega-deep pockets to even get into a T2 then something is wrong.

Business is business, so let the Rich kids pay for T3 ;)
Lugh Crow-Slave
#211 - 2016-12-14 11:07:07 UTC
Gizzie Haslack wrote:
You'll need talent to do it then, not just a Cloak.



i take it you don't bomb much? or you only do it against fleets that have never dealt with bombing because it is no easy feat
Lugh Crow-Slave
#212 - 2016-12-14 11:10:21 UTC
Jakara Dakara wrote:
CCP Larrikin wrote:
Hi Space Friends,
Command Destroyers
Command Destroyers receive at 50% role bonus to decreasing the reactivation timer on Defender Launchers.



Any thoughts on perhaps making the bonus for Assault Frigates? As stated earlier in this thread command dessies have a niche roll atm where as Assault Frigates at the moment are completely outclassed by T3D's and it will give them more of a roll & usage.



i would much rather AFs be given a good place in eve not just some gimmick tacked onto them so they are a one trick pony
Gizzie Haslack
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#213 - 2016-12-14 11:11:53 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Gizzie Haslack wrote:
You'll need talent to do it then, not just a Cloak.



i take it you don't bomb much? or you only do it against fleets that have never dealt with bombing because it is no easy feat



That's the point. I want to feel talented. Study study study.


Plus it's accurate to the phsyics. Momentum is momentum. High Speed launching might even get you past Defenders?


Who wants some rich kid getting easy kills when you can instead have talented pilots kicking butt?


Or you can coast in at 10m/s cloaked to a range of 29 km, and then de-cloak & launch. Oh, and then leg-it ( obviously ) to a pre-set off-the-grid warp point ( using dual-bookmark triangulation ).
Sami Hakaari
Space Cavalry Regiment
#214 - 2016-12-14 13:27:44 UTC
Can anybody explain me why defence against missiles was removed completly? I was waiting for this patch to see them buffed and they removed it?
Cade Windstalker
#215 - 2016-12-14 14:33:10 UTC
Sami Hakaari wrote:
Can anybody explain me why defence against missiles was removed completly? I was waiting for this patch to see them buffed and they removed it?


You may want to try reading the thread, starting with the first post by CCP. The short answer is: They didn't.
Gizzie Haslack
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#216 - 2016-12-14 14:36:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Gizzie Haslack
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Jakara Dakara wrote:
CCP Larrikin wrote:
Hi Space Friends,
Command Destroyers
Command Destroyers receive at 50% role bonus to decreasing the reactivation timer on Defender Launchers.



Any thoughts on perhaps making the bonus for Assault Frigates? As stated earlier in this thread command dessies have a niche roll atm where as Assault Frigates at the moment are completely outclassed by T3D's and it will give them more of a roll & usage.



i would much rather AFs be given a good place in eve not just some gimmick tacked onto them so they are a one trick pony



Agreed. AF's are currently expensive & pointless. In a Frigate you're gonna get blapped, so why spend nearly 45m etc on something so limited?

Giving AF's a 'launcher upgrade' might actually bring them back into play. They could be the Y-Wing of EVE. An old & chunky doo-dah etc. I get the need for a Heavy Strike Frigate with a hugely-adaptable chassis, but Bombers are so good you just don't need AF's at this stage.

I've had 'em queued for ages, and something better always comes along. That's not a good sign really.



Afterthought: If they kept their guns 'n' ammo as is, and were able to fit Cov Ops cloaks, then that would do it too. A chassis that adaptable is wasted without a little 'something special'. Low Power slots & a bit of tank just aren't that useful compared to ( see below ).

- They've got the resists of a Dessie, and are 25x more pricey. That alone makes them pointless in most Fleet Actions.

- Bombers pack more punch. 2 less slots for A LOT more blap. Bombers are less robust, but have Cov Ops to add 'durability'. So Bombers win here, even though they are weaker on small targets.

- Interceptors are less robust, a little faster, less versatile, but generally more affordable than AF's. And they can hit small targets ( like Bombers for example ).


Yeah, spot the problem.


Adding Cov Ops AND Defender Missile capabilities might just fix teh AF.
Spirit Bishop
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#217 - 2016-12-15 12:51:59 UTC
Capqu wrote:
waste of goddamn time

fozzie sov was enough of a nerf to bombing already, this is totally unnecessary

noone is bombing currently in eve because you reliably cannot predict where the fight will be and bombing requires some setup time

these changes would have been good 2 years ago

now adays test and friends are literally flying around in the most bombable doctrines in history but noone can be bothered bombing them because its impossible to predict where engagements will happen and super dds are just better bombs anyway, not to mention the general power creep of ehp/speed making bombs harder than ever to land

in adition 0 velocity bombs was some of the hardest **** to pull off and almost never saw any use so removing it for no reason i dont even understand, you just dont want people to be able to innovate?

thanks for the final nail o7 bongers

here is a suggestion because i guess i should be constructive

make them target drones or anyone using ecm on you instead



Honestly the biggest waste of time I have ran into in EvE Online was the link on the bottom of your rant.
Felix Shoen
Black Omega Security
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#218 - 2016-12-15 15:06:06 UTC
Bombing runs take planning, coordination, and skill. When they work out they are some of the most spectacular events in eve and make for great video. You at CCP even used bombers bar video in your "This is EVE" promo two years back.
but now...well. Think about it this way.

You now have a mechanism where a paying player of skill and experience has his entire ship's attack completely negated
by a Free to Play player WITHOUT ANY PLAYER INPUT WHATSOEVER USING A SINGLE MODULE.

what's next? how about a doomsday eliminator module mounted on an imicus.
or a decloaking sphere only usable on noob-ships.

if you want to get rid of stealth bombers, get rid of them. You can do that.
Don't, however leave them in game to be nullified by Alpha clones.
because that makes us PAYING customers just a little pissed off.
Gizzie Haslack
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#219 - 2016-12-15 16:05:56 UTC
Felix Shoen wrote:
Bombing runs take planning, coordination, and skill. When they work out they are some of the most spectacular events in eve and make for great video. You at CCP even used bombers bar video in your "This is EVE" promo two years back.
but now...well. Think about it this way.

You now have a mechanism where a paying player of skill and experience has his entire ship's attack completely negated
by a Free to Play player WITHOUT ANY PLAYER INPUT WHATSOEVER USING A SINGLE MODULE.

what's next? how about a doomsday eliminator module mounted on an imicus.
or a decloaking sphere only usable on noob-ships.

if you want to get rid of stealth bombers, get rid of them. You can do that.
Don't, however leave them in game to be nullified by Alpha clones.
because that makes us PAYING customers just a little pissed off.



Fleets 'n' squadrons. It's the only way to be sure* ;)

.

* Unless the FC is a knob making money off of your back, but that's bye-the-bye.
May Arethusa
Junction Systems
#220 - 2016-12-15 18:26:40 UTC
Quote:
Adding Cov Ops AND Defender Missile capabilities might just fix teh AF.


Yeah... No.

Assault Frigates are just as capable as they used to be. The issue lies in the recent additions around them, T3Ds and Command Destroyers. I fail to see your logic in retasking an Assault Frigate to a defensive role.

Quote:
fozzie sov was enough of a nerf to bombing already, this is totally unnecessary

noone is bombing currently in eve because you reliably cannot predict where the fight will be and bombing requires some setup time


Your inability to co-ordinate with FCs to ensure a fight takes place on a pre-prepared battlefield isn't a nerf to bombing. That said, there are numerous static locations where fights will take place at predictable times, and that number is growing each day. Try adapating instead of bemoaning changes to the game, because we all know how much sympathy that gets you. You're living in a target rich environment, do something with it.

Quote:
You now have a mechanism where a paying player of skill and experience has his entire ship's attack completely negated
by a Free to Play player WITHOUT ANY PLAYER INPUT WHATSOEVER USING A SINGLE MODULE.


Not really. For a start, pressing a button is what is known as player input. Then there's the random nature of their targeting, meaning that at least some bombs will get through. That's without accounting for the two minute reactivation delay, a poorly co-ordinated anti-bombing squad can easily be negated with feints. Finally, how is this any less of an annoyance when activated by a paying customer? Grow up.