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Another permajammed thread.
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Tung Yoggi
University of Caille
#41 - 2016-11-28 15:19:41 UTC
No module counters ECM, ECCM scripted sensor booster merely give you better chances to avoid the effect of ECM, not anything more.

I fought once a sabre + 2 falcons with a ship with 5 ECCM mods, i wasn't jammed once only due to pure luck.

I do believe that CCP tried to tone down ECM by nerfing ECM platforms, and since most ECM bonused ships are trash, and ECM mods are only effective towards one target at the time, ECM is only a force multiplier when you outnumber your opponent, making it only good for blobbing or gatecamping.

Using ECM is just adding insult to injury, by effectively preventing people to "act bravely" or trying to punch above their weight. It ends up mostly used by cowards and 100% efficiency dudes like perma gatecampers or other kind of baddies.

I like the idea of assymetrical Ewar between all races, but let's be honest, it doesn't make ECM any better.
Solitudinem Aeternus
Multiverse Trading
#42 - 2016-11-30 16:11:42 UTC
Torothanax wrote:

Bottom line it that it's not the ECM killing you, it's you being out numbered or outclassed in the first place. Pick your fights better. If you get soloed by an ECM ship you're probably doing something wrong. Post the kill mail so we can laugh at you.


This wasn't directed at me, but I'll chime in because I have direct experience with it.

In *EVERY* one-on-one fight I've ever lost, I was jammed, and I was jammed the entire time. The most recent case, I was in a battleship and was jumped by a jackdaw. The *ONLY* thing I could do the entire time was sit there watching my ship flail away in space while eating missiles, until it died. I was *NEVER* able to get off a single shot.

The point is, you certainly don't need to be outnumbered to be victimized by this crap, and being in a big hull doesn't protect you. For that matter, 'picking fights better' has nothing to do with anything either, as these fights picked me.
Master Sergeant MacRobert
Red Sky Morning
The Amarr Militia.
#43 - 2016-11-30 17:05:52 UTC
Torothanax wrote:
Nothing of consequence


Best to just ignore a rant with no substance.

"Remedy this situation or you shall live out the rest of your life in a pain amplifier"
Torothanax
#44 - 2016-12-03 14:35:29 UTC
Master Sergeant MacRobert wrote:
Torothanax wrote:
Nothing of consequence


Best to just ignore a rant with no substance.
Who's frothing at the mouth over ECM all through the thread? Link some battle reports where ECM totally broke the game. "Pics or it didn't happen."




Solitudinem Aeternus wrote:
In *EVERY* one-on-one fight I've ever lost, I was jammed, and I was jammed the entire time. The most recent case, I was in a battleship and was jumped by a jackdaw. The *ONLY* thing I could do the entire time was sit there watching my ship flail away in space while eating missiles, until it died. I was *NEVER* able to get off a single shot.

The point is, you certainly don't need to be outnumbered to be victimized by this crap, and being in a big hull doesn't protect you. For that matter, 'picking fights better' has nothing to do with anything either, as these fights picked me.


Said the alt... Oh, and: post the kill mails so we can laugh at you.
Dark Lord Trump
Infinite Point
Pandemic Horde
#45 - 2016-12-03 18:45:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Dark Lord Trump
Solitudinem Aeternus wrote:
Torothanax wrote:

Bottom line it that it's not the ECM killing you, it's you being out numbered or outclassed in the first place. Pick your fights better. If you get soloed by an ECM ship you're probably doing something wrong. Post the kill mail so we can laugh at you.


This wasn't directed at me, but I'll chime in because I have direct experience with it.

In *EVERY* one-on-one fight I've ever lost, I was jammed, and I was jammed the entire time. The most recent case, I was in a battleship and was jumped by a jackdaw. The *ONLY* thing I could do the entire time was sit there watching my ship flail away in space while eating missiles, until it died. I was *NEVER* able to get off a single shot.

The point is, you certainly don't need to be outnumbered to be victimized by this crap, and being in a big hull doesn't protect you. For that matter, 'picking fights better' has nothing to do with anything either, as these fights picked me.

I call bull. Jackdaws aren't bonused for ECM. Even if he had 4 racial jams overheated he should still be missing jams 30% of the time. And no sane jackdaw pilot would fit 4 jams.

I'm going to build a big wall that will keep the Gallente out, and they're going to pay for it!
Pretagos Omilas
Made in Wormhole Space
#46 - 2016-12-04 13:36:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Pretagos Omilas
Solitudinem Aeternus wrote:
(...) The most recent case, I was in a battleship and was jumped by a jackdaw. The *ONLY* thing I could do the entire time was sit there watching my ship flail away in space while eating missiles, until it died. I was *NEVER* able to get off a single shot.


So.... maybe you should not have watched your ship go down but set drones on aggressive and deploy them? Am I missing something or wouldn't that have worked? Or is there a battleship I'm not aware of that cannot use drones? Unfortunately your killboard doesn't show a bs loss to verify myself Roll
Gregorius Goldstein
Queens of the Drone Age
#47 - 2016-12-06 13:05:51 UTC
I really would like to know how many players fly ships without the proper Sensor Compensation trained.
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#48 - 2016-12-06 15:23:50 UTC
I used to pvp just like you, but then my ship took an ECM to it's sensor lock.
Thursday Park-Laine
Queens of the Drone Age
#49 - 2016-12-08 09:26:45 UTC
Your killboard shows that you blew up 8,754 ships while only losiing 527 of your own.
And yet you complain that your enemies are to powerfull. ECM is balanced when you stop losing ships at all?
Nalena Linova
State War Academy
Caldari State
#50 - 2016-12-09 22:01:20 UTC
I've always thought an interesting possible change to ECM mechanics would be to make the module interfere with the target's UI.

ECM modules would be reduced to a single multispectral type that is effective against all ship classes. Activating an ECM module on a target would apply the following effects for 20 seconds:

- All active target locks are broken at the start of the cycle, but the target is not prevented from locking new targets for the rest of the cycle duration.

- All entries on the target's overviews are duplicated. These fake readings take the same time to lock as the real object, and disappear when a hostile module is activated against them.

- All broadcasts are prevented from appearing in the fleet history window.


These changes would make ECM less RNG for the user, while potentially not being as frustrating for the victim by allowing counterplay.
Phaade
LowKey Ops
Shadow Cartel
#51 - 2016-12-11 20:23:30 UTC
Goe Rilla wrote:
So, CCP, any news on changes for this iwinbutton brokenass mechanic ?

Will we, for example, be able to finally and at least engage medium frigate blobs in a couple cruisers or BCs without the permajam because of that single ECM frigate in said blob ? Why is the only efective way to deal with ECM is either the ECM's ship destruction or sacrificing an important slot for an eccm or sebos ?

Wouldnt it be more intelligent to change it along a ship to ship hard formula like:

ECM Frigate vs Frigate = Full ECM str and duration applied

ECM Frigate vs Cruiser = Half ECM str and dura

ECM Frigate vs BC = Quarter ECM str and dura

ECM Frigate vs BS = Fith ECM str and dura

and so on ...

Could you perhaps make it so ? At some point in the near future ? No ? Right now, everytime any ECM ship shows up, pvp flies out the window unless superior numbers brought in to **** it up as quick as possible. It's stupid.

Thanks.



The genius of this proposal is that it takes the BS 10 seconds to lock a frigate, so simply breaking the lock is a HUGE deal.

ECM NEEDS TO BE CHANGED CCP.

Stop shitting the bed the way you did with links.
Phaade
LowKey Ops
Shadow Cartel
#52 - 2016-12-11 20:42:49 UTC
Phaade wrote:
Goe Rilla wrote:
So, CCP, any news on changes for this iwinbutton brokenass mechanic ?

Will we, for example, be able to finally and at least engage medium frigate blobs in a couple cruisers or BCs without the permajam because of that single ECM frigate in said blob ? Why is the only efective way to deal with ECM is either the ECM's ship destruction or sacrificing an important slot for an eccm or sebos ?

Wouldnt it be more intelligent to change it along a ship to ship hard formula like:

ECM Frigate vs Frigate = Full ECM str and duration applied

ECM Frigate vs Cruiser = Half ECM str and dura

ECM Frigate vs BC = Quarter ECM str and dura

ECM Frigate vs BS = Fith ECM str and dura

and so on ...

Could you perhaps make it so ? At some point in the near future ? No ? Right now, everytime any ECM ship shows up, pvp flies out the window unless superior numbers brought in to **** it up as quick as possible. It's stupid.

Thanks.



The genius of this proposal is that it takes the BS 10 seconds to lock a frigate, so simply breaking the lock is a HUGE deal.

ECM NEEDS TO BE CHANGED CCP.

Stop shitting the bed the way you did with links.


I'd love someone to explain why ECM not being as utterly stupid as it is today would break the game.

There are so many great ideas, and yet ECM is still such a ******* joke.
Jean-Marc Lepelletier
Doomheim
#53 - 2017-01-03 02:39:29 UTC
Substantia Nigra wrote:
Robot Robot wrote:
I'd like to see a turret equivalent to FOF missiles. If we get that, then I will have zero problem with ECM. As it stands, I have very little problem.


I am at a loss to understand the benefits of having ECM that is 'no problem'. The whole reason you use ECM is to create a problem, for the other guy.

I do not fit a multi jammer to my nullsec haulers so you are faced with no problems, I fit them for the (admittedly low) possibility of escaping the problem you're trying to cause me. I do not camp with a falcon up my sleeve for it to be no problem. It's a force multiplier that helps me cause problems or, when I have over extended, to help me to preserve assets in bravely running away.

The current ECM dice-roll seems, to me, to be a reasonable balancing act, although I did kinda like the previous awesome power of dedicated jammers. I am a sick person and see jamming as another awesome part of the eve game dynamic*.


* I still chuckle to remember the tears of Makalu Zarya (A very good eve player, now retired byt he looks, who also happened to be an enemy) when our ECM-intensive fleets would grief his assembled AAA hordes.

* I also think cloaking and cloaky camping and afk cloaky camping is another dimension of eve's excellence. So sue me!


Exactly this. An ECM nerf would be extremely detrimental to haulers and miners who depend on ewar to keep from being constantly blown to kingdom come, myself included. ECM is not an I Win button, but it is an Escape Unfair Gank button that has saved my butt many times in highsec and lowsec.

I reject the authority and legitimacy of the New Order of Highsec. I will mine when I want, where I want and take as much as I want. Buy your mother a permit and go do some real PvP!
ivona fly
Black Fox Marauders
Pen Is Out
#54 - 2017-01-11 10:44:31 UTC  |  Edited by: ivona fly
If they have an ecm crusier its easy to kill, if they have a frigate have your anti tackle role bounce to a tactical to lose jam then warp back and kill it, now the enemy fleet is down 1 ship that could have been a DPS or logi.

In general to get enough jams the ecm ship is poorly tanked for its class as a balance factor as they are armour tanked caldari ships
lord xavier
Rubbed Out
#55 - 2017-01-11 20:46:20 UTC  |  Edited by: lord xavier
Goe Rilla wrote:
So, CCP, any news on changes for this iwinbutton brokenass mechanic ?

Will we, for example, be able to finally and at least engage medium frigate blobs in a couple cruisers or BCs without the permajam because of that single ECM frigate in said blob ? Why is the only efective way to deal with ECM is either the ECM's ship destruction or sacrificing an important slot for an eccm or sebos ?

Wouldnt it be more intelligent to change it along a ship to ship hard formula like:

ECM Frigate vs Frigate = Full ECM str and duration applied

ECM Frigate vs Cruiser = Half ECM str and dura

ECM Frigate vs BC = Quarter ECM str and dura

ECM Frigate vs BS = Fith ECM str and dura

and so on ...

Could you perhaps make it so ? At some point in the near future ? No ? Right now, everytime any ECM ship shows up, pvp flies out the window unless superior numbers brought in to **** it up as quick as possible. It's stupid.

Thanks.


I'm sorry, but why are we complaining about ECM ships? You realize that Hornet EC-300s have more chance to jam you than a griffin? And they can go in the 30+ enemy ships on grid. Effectively jamming out the entire logi-chain. I have been perma-jammed in a carrier by a single flight of EC-300s. While ECM frigates and cruisers are pretty awful. They are a more reasonable feature than a set of drones that 1 of 5 can jam you.

Strengths are pointless for a system that is 100% RNG. Cause, in theory a Widow should be able to single-handely jam a carrier. Or two falcons. Or three blackbirds. Or four griffin navys or 5 Griffins. However, with ECM being RNG based. Skills do not matter, ship doesn't matter, drone size doesnt matter. It is useless to use the scorpion for anything. Useless to use a blackbird unless you need longer locking range and cant fly a rook/falcon.

In order to fix ECM as a whole, they have to change how it operates all together. Pretty much removing it and recreating it. As a max ECM pilot I can honestly tell you I have had more successful jams from Hornet EC-300s than I have ever had from any ECM ship combined.
ivona fly
Black Fox Marauders
Pen Is Out
#56 - 2017-01-12 17:54:41 UTC  |  Edited by: ivona fly
lord xavier wrote:
Goe Rilla wrote:
So, CCP, any news on changes for this iwinbutton brokenass mechanic ?

Will we, for example, be able to finally and at least engage medium frigate blobs in a couple cruisers or BCs without the permajam because of that single ECM frigate in said blob ? Why is the only efective way to deal with ECM is either the ECM's ship destruction or sacrificing an important slot for an eccm or sebos ?

Wouldnt it be more intelligent to change it along a ship to ship hard formula like:

ECM Frigate vs Frigate = Full ECM str and duration applied

ECM Frigate vs Cruiser = Half ECM str and dura

ECM Frigate vs BC = Quarter ECM str and dura

ECM Frigate vs BS = Fith ECM str and dura

and so on ...

Could you perhaps make it so ? At some point in the near future ? No ? Right now, everytime any ECM ship shows up, pvp flies out the window unless superior numbers brought in to **** it up as quick as possible. It's stupid.

Thanks.


I'm sorry, but why are we complaining about ECM ships? You realize that Hornet EC-300s have more chance to jam you than a griffin? And they can go in the 30+ enemy ships on grid. Effectively jamming out the entire logi-chain. I have been perma-jammed in a carrier by a single flight of EC-300s. While ECM frigates and cruisers are pretty awful. They are a more reasonable feature than a set of drones that 1 of 5 can jam you.

Strengths are pointless for a system that is 100% RNG. Cause, in theory a Widow should be able to single-handely jam a carrier. Or two falcons. Or three blackbirds. Or four griffin navys or 5 Griffins. However, with ECM being RNG based. Skills do not matter, ship doesn't matter, drone size doesnt matter. It is useless to use the scorpion for anything. Useless to use a blackbird unless you need longer locking range and cant fly a rook/falcon.

In order to fix ECM as a whole, they have to change how it operates all together. Pretty much removing it and recreating it. As a max ECM pilot I can honestly tell you I have had more successful jams from Hornet EC-300s than I have ever had from any ECM ship combined.


I know how the RNG works on them ec-300s :

When someone launches them at me they have a 99.99% chance of jamming ME

When I launch them at somebody else they have 00.1% chance of jamming THEM

Big smile
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#57 - 2017-01-16 09:09:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Infinity Ziona
Ping PangWang wrote:
FoF missiles /thread

Need to fix these first. Its so easy to defeat them its silly.


lord xavier wrote:


I'm sorry, but why are we complaining about ECM ships? You realize that Hornet EC-300s have more chance to jam you than a griffin? And they can go in the 30+ enemy ships on grid. Effectively jamming out the entire logi-chain. I have been perma-jammed in a carrier by a single flight of EC-300s. While ECM frigates and cruisers are pretty awful. They are a more reasonable feature than a set of drones that 1 of 5 can jam you.

Strengths are pointless for a system that is 100% RNG. Cause, in theory a Widow should be able to single-handely jam a carrier. Or two falcons. Or three blackbirds. Or four griffin navys or 5 Griffins. However, with ECM being RNG based. Skills do not matter, ship doesn't matter, drone size doesnt matter. It is useless to use the scorpion for anything. Useless to use a blackbird unless you need longer locking range and cant fly a rook/falcon.

In order to fix ECM as a whole, they have to change how it operates all together. Pretty much removing it and recreating it. As a max ECM pilot I can honestly tell you I have had more successful jams from Hornet EC-300s than I have ever had from any ECM ship combined.

My solution is pretty simple:

Jammers always work, no RNG. Jammers can reduce total target locks to 0 but not lower. An ECCM can add 1 target lock and that lock cannot be affected by jams.

For each 8 points of jam strength, target ship removes 1 target from the target ship. Stackable.

Example:

Ship A has 64 jam strength on its racial jammer. Ship B has 64 sensor strength.
Without a ECCM the ship can lock 0 targets.
With an ECCM the ship can always lock 1 target.

Ship A has 51 jam strength, Ship B and C have 25 jam strength each.
Ship A can lock 1 target without ECCM. Two with ECCM.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Jo Kiyoko
Perkone
Caldari State
#58 - 2017-03-11 21:08:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Jo Kiyoko
I always sport Ladar and Magnetometrics, minmatar are the easiest faction to jam and they're very popular in pvp so there always something to jam. I'd just wished non-bonused jams had decent base strength to fit; and also have the scorpion looked at to be more exciting.
Pew Terror
All of it
#59 - 2017-03-14 19:12:15 UTC
Threads like this is why it is so enjoyable to roam in a falcon looking for people honorabru 1v1ing and then jamming them both...
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