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[December] Defender Missiles

First post First post First post
Author
Querns
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#81 - 2016-11-26 14:41:51 UTC
Malakai Asamov wrote:
Querns wrote:
Malakai Asamov wrote:
Why would you not announce this new feature at EDU in person?


It was announced at Eve Vegas.


Details? Better yet why would you not leak this on a pub crawl?


Pretty much everything in the dev blog was talked about during an Eve Vegas presentation. In fact, one fact that was at the presentation that isn't in the post is that they were initially gonna call this module something that was a backronym for "DICKS." I'm a little sad that the joke was removed, but eh.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

Whisperen
Delta vane Corp.
DARKNESS.
#82 - 2016-11-26 14:42:05 UTC
Why not give this to assault frigates? Some more ships need to be able to bomb maybe a t2 Attack BC or a T2 BS with just frigate bombers and a hard counter on a destroyer hull i doubt this will see much action.
Angry RedGummyBear
Lethal Injection Inc.
Pandemic Legion
#83 - 2016-11-26 14:55:48 UTC
Capqu wrote:

on an unrelated
i think you should have to actually get at least 1 killmail in the past 3 months to post on these forums because then theres a chance you might actually know what youre talking about
probably not tho at least in your case


THINK OF THE LOGI BROS
Infrequent
Mass Collapse
It Must Be Jelly Cause Jam Don't Shake
#84 - 2016-11-26 15:07:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Infrequent
Are you actually kidding me right now!? Do you have any idea of the effect this is going to have, nullsec groups that are already entrenched with their shiny fleets will now just use their alpha proxy alliances to screen off bombers at will, you have effectively killed bombing runs in large scale nullsec pvp (The only place you'd ever really see them if you're lucky), keeping in mind that bombing runs are not even that common anymore nor are they OP, this is ridiculous.

By the way I wouldn't be fussed if the Defenders were limited to specialized destroyers with none alpha clones, but the fact that they are so accessible is what makes it so broken.

Stop catering to N+1
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#85 - 2016-11-26 15:59:31 UTC
I don't think command destroyers need another special thing they can do. just the unique gamebreaking jump module is enough stuff for a class
Icarus Narcissus
Pathway to the Next
The Revenant Order
#86 - 2016-11-26 16:25:16 UTC
Will these modules also impact guided bombs from structures?
Vivace Naaris
OpSec.
Wrong Hole.
#87 - 2016-11-26 16:36:48 UTC
CCP Larrikin wrote:
VCBee 2fast2furious wrote:
Just to confirm, do Defender Missiles 2.0 distinguish between friendly and non-friendly bombs?

They do not, they target a random bomb within intercept range. It does not consider friendly or non-friendly bombs.

Rowells wrote:
So, in regards to how it selects a bomb, is it truly random or does it pick the closest one?

Its truly random.



So the distance of two bombs from the launch point will not make a difference? If one is 5km, another 15 or 20km, it could just as easily go for the 15-20km one?
Luckyyy Strike
Only Virgins
#88 - 2016-11-26 16:39:28 UTC
maybe balance the nerf by making the bombs explode even after the bombers death...but i bet on legacy code
Nova Valentis
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#89 - 2016-11-26 16:50:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Nova Valentis
Hello,

i am definitly biased on this topic since bombing is the only thing that brought me into this game and for me FCing a successfull bombrun is still the best thing in any game ever. Ever. By far.

Reading the threat it seems as if most people find the nerf too harsh and unneeded, i have to agree in some parts. It seems like bombingruns aren't a big factor in the game anymore and i strongly believe it's due to the phoebe bombing nerfs and the way sov. warfare has changed and gotten more mobile. People obviously not willing to spend hours of creating at least six bookmarks for every point of interest ideally at least 1k in distance in each system of a cluster where a fight could happen, plus a few systems on where those two fleets hopefully fighting meet doesnt make it more appealling.

I see how making a useless skill usefull to balance something that was unbalanced half a decade ago sounds appealing. I also see the possibility of large groups strongly benefiting from this. But noone can really predict what will happen so i'd take the challenge and see how it pans out

IF
Bombers get unnerfed to pre-phoebe conditions:

1. Warpspeed
2. Agility
3. 10 second bombtime

Why?
1&2 to get bombers in position quicker for bombingruns.
3. Most doctrines can warp out in under 10 seconds without propmod anyway. But having to wait 6s for each following wave is an additional nerf to bombingruns if you do waves.

- some of the reasons bombers got the harsh phoebe nerf are gone from the game now anyway: i.e. IS-boxing bombers
- Maybe the reason people dont want to fly battleships as much is due to their warpspeed, not only the abstract fear of 50 bombers.

This would give low SP players a real opportunity to have a meaningfull impact in big nullsec fights, even with a shitton of counters available to their targets.

@CCP i really hope you take the above proposition into consideration. Additional insight: when i try to get new FCs interested in trying to do bombing runs and they say "but it sounds so complicated" i answer: "no you only need to know tactic A, B, variation of B, C, D, F, practice them multiple times probably without any success, these two FC ships, learn all of the common NS doctrines, know each weakpoint and warpouttime, have cloaky dictors everywhere, coordinate everything down to the second have contacts in every major alliance, spend hours of preparation and if you're lucky they don't bring T3s nor blueball and forget how not to get bombed. It'll work 30% of the time, everytime. Oh and you actually gotta FC so a newbro doesnt decloak everyone." - then in those moments i realize why people rather do something else.
Sbrodor
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#90 - 2016-11-26 17:16:57 UTC
Please CCP remove bomber from game at all so you can apply freely the N+1 > N fight tecnique.

eve online sometime is great DESPITE ccp nerf and modification.

why not introduce the t2 bomb? all single equipment of eveonline have t2 spec?

You nerfed BOMBER to hell , damage overtake of bombs eachother, 12 sec launch time, damage of void and lockbraker, useless dumb ******** void focused bomb with 1m range, useless lockbraker bomb, no t2 bomb, and again smartbomb wall, MJD device for avoid bomb run and now the defender missiles? you need that? make the bomb have the 50% chance of autotrigger inside bombe please NOW cause the CSM10 cry and cry for the next fleet wiped out of bomber....

You cancelled every bomber bar i know except ossim and few other bomber bar maybe could be nice ask to some bomba master before introducing nerf over nerf.

i think this defender missile is stupid and useless and we will continue to bomb and wasting fleet like every single day and if u want specialize even more the bomb run i ask to submit the t2 bomb with more range, more damage, more power.

this is stupid and un-necessary.
Nova Valentis
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#91 - 2016-11-26 17:46:52 UTC
Sbrodor wrote:
why not introduce the t2 bomb? .


Yeah that would be something really nice! T2 Bombs! !

I agree on almost everything you say, but the focused void bombs work in small engagements only in big fights they're kinda useless. I also would change the lockbreaker into something more interesting. Noone really uses them, for reasons.
Olmeca Gold
The Free Folk
#92 - 2016-11-26 17:48:05 UTC
Winter Archipelago wrote:
Quote:
Bombs now have a Minimum Velocity of 1m/s that you must be traveling at before you can launch. This is to fix some issues that can happen when your velocity is 0, causing the bomb not to move and just explode on you.

This honestly makes me a little sad. It was a fun little quirk of bombs.


You have no idea how big my plans were for this little feature :S

Covert Cloaky FC. Sustainable Whaler.

Youtube channel.

Olmeca Gold
The Free Folk
#93 - 2016-11-26 17:50:05 UTC
Querns wrote:

Nah. The CSM works because it allows for the representation of a much larger number of players. A forum post can be made by anyone.


You mean like maybe %10 of the player base, who only does sov nullsec?

Or else I dont know how you can explain only one of them not having ties to nullsec blob alliances.

Covert Cloaky FC. Sustainable Whaler.

Youtube channel.

Querns
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#94 - 2016-11-26 17:57:42 UTC
Olmeca Gold wrote:
Querns wrote:

Nah. The CSM works because it allows for the representation of a much larger number of players. A forum post can be made by anyone.


You mean like maybe %10 of the player base, who only does sov nullsec?

Or else I dont know how you can explain only one of them not having ties to nullsec blob alliances.


Easy -- they don't vote. If they truly outnumber sov nullsec the way you assert, it should be a breeze for them to elect any candidate they want.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

Sbrodor
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#95 - 2016-11-26 18:03:50 UTC
CSM will alway WHINE when they wipe from bombers... was in CSM 9 .. CSM10... CSM 11...

Nova Valentis
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#96 - 2016-11-26 18:13:08 UTC
CCP Larrikin wrote:

Bomb Changes
Bombs now have a Minimum Velocity of 1m/s that you must be traveling at before you can launch. This is to fix some issues that can happen when your velocity is 0, causing the bomb not to move and just explode on you.


Why? This one is the single coolest legacy code and even tho almost noone actually uses it to their advantage it's a cool option to have. If someone really dies not beeing aligned, well he kind of deserves it.

Legacy code that should be changed regarding bombing is gates eating bombs. 0 damage to gate shows up all of the ships around the gate wont get damaged. Happens to a certain percentage of bomber each time a gate is bombed.

Or maybe that's on purpose. anyone know?
Mila Strelok
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#97 - 2016-11-26 18:32:58 UTC
CCP Larrikin wrote:
The Defender Launcher I has a 120 second reactivation timer.

Cycle time or reload ammo time?
Nova Valentis
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#98 - 2016-11-26 18:40:31 UTC
Kasia en Tilavine wrote:
I think everyone appreciates the effort to make the defender missiles and their skills actually do something. But as a dozen people have already said.... nobody bombs anymore. Bombs are so lacking in utility or efficacy, this is the gravestone of bombing as a whole. Unless this release is PAIRED with a whole new suite of bombs, "bombing" will be all but forgotten.

Here is a list of crazy new utility to bombing that you could include:

High speed bombs that travel (and detonate) faster
High range bombs that go faster with the same travel time
Proximity bombs that detonate when a ship is within 50% of its explosion range
E-war bombs that produce a single use of effects like the supers aoe projections
Shrapnel bombs that do enormous damage to drones, but very little to ships
High radius bombs with lower damage and better application
persistent effect bombs that produce an aoe affect bubble that travels with it during its entire flight time

If you're going to let people shut down bombing runs, you need to make sure people want to bomb.


Hey there, i like you. You should fly with Bombers Bar ;)
Also your bomb ideas really would make me want to go out and try them. It's not even asked much, or too crazy like cov. ops destroyer or battlecruiser.
I'd add focused damage bombs to the mix! with small AoE and big explosion radius.
And T2 bombs!

Porucznik Borewicz
GreenSwarm
#99 - 2016-11-26 20:00:11 UTC
Luckyyy Strike wrote:
maybe balance the nerf by making the bombs explode even after the bombers death...but i bet on legacy code
Yeah, I bet CCP would not manage to get it to work anyway.
Kathy WickedTrade
Stellar Squadron
#100 - 2016-11-26 20:40:23 UTC
Read Olmeca Gold's post again guys its simply a really good written post!