EVE General Discussion

because machariels are pretty

Another thing. The battlecruisers which fit battleship-sized guns have to go. Or the battleship-sized guns on them need to go, and they need to be given another role. Perhaps 8 cruiser-sized guns instead of the BS-sized ones would be fine.

This may not be the biggest factor in why battleships are less than desirable, but it's just one more factor. I say if you want 8 battleship-sized guns, you have to fly a battleship, not a battlecruiser for Pete's sake. Jeez Louise, seems like anyone could see that. It's just dumb the way it is. It's like CCP couldn't have done a better job of castrating battleships if they actually tried, which makes me wonder.

are you saying i can fit rapid heavy missiles to my orthrus??? 800mm dual autocannons to a stabber?

Just want to point out that if we feel the need to nerf a whole bunch of other ships just to make battleships viable, then it's probably easier and better to just buff the battleships.

People like their ships, and nerfing T3C's won't make them fly battleships, the same way nerfing high-sec won't make carebears interested in low.

There are several kinds of T1 cruisers, and several classes of T2 cruisers. Compared to the multitude of cruisers (and frigates), there are way too few battleship types. EVE doesn't have gear progression, and bigger isn't better, but I feel that there should be a greater diversity of battleships, given that they're sort of the end-of-the-line as far as subcaps.

I think it's worth pointing out that battleships, in or out of game, are not particularly intended to be solo ships. As such, many of their 'problems' go away when battleships support each other, or have other support ships with them.

For example, look at the classic 'getting under the guns' tactic used by frigates. It's easy enough to do that to one battleship, but much, much harder to do that when there is a second battleship 30+ km away who can track you much more easily. And you now have twice the number of drones chasing you.

Battleships in Eve are area denial ships. They have the range to project dps despite their slow speed, and the tank to hold the field. A fleet of battleships denies an important area of space (such as a gate, pos, or other key point) to anyone not bringing their own battleships (or capitals). They excel in fights where the location of the fight is inflexible.

If you want to fight running battles, or roam space looking for fights, you need smaller, faster ships. I'm fairly certain that's working as intended.

Perfectly well said. I have Dual Rep Rapid Heavy Typhoons that I pull out every time the "Kitey Bullshit" shows up in my neighborhood. It doesn't always get kills, but it's tough and can match range with the kiters and forces them to withdraw, and it's funny to see how they react when they try to pull our tacklers off only to be confronted with a MJDing BS. WHOOPS, you're in range again, so sorry lol.

Some people who complain about battleships simply don't like the limits on where and how they can be used, but if you make Battleships a thing for multiple situations (or make multiple types of BSs to cover every situation), it would simply re-open the pandora's box CCP closed a decade ago.

I doubt it, but if so, who cares? If it needs fixing, it needs fixing, and if it is important to do, it is important to do.

For me, the battleship issue is an intolerable situation. I know others who feel the same way. I've been able to train battleships for a long time, and have the skill books injected. I also have many support skills trained. But I have refused to train them. To me they are broken, and it simply isn't worth it. I'd like to see the issue fixed.

This is actually not true. It sounds good but its false. A good example which completely debunks this is the recent fleet of 80ish Svipuls that slaughtered PL's fleet of 120 Mach's.

Lets look at your post a bit -

Battleships are not particularly intended to be solo - true or false? False initially, true after about 2004 or 2005. What we're missing here though is a bit of perspective. Interceptors were never intended to be used solo. Nor were recons. Nor were dreadnaughts or carriers. You could say that none of the ships post 2004-5 were intended to be used solo but almost all are or can be except the battleship which will die extremely quickly due to its terrible mobility and inability to disengage (apart from ships like the Mach and to a lesser extent Typhoon and Tempest).


In terms of your example you suggest to defeat a single frigate in a battleship due to it outrunning your tracking and unbonused drones you need to have an extra battleship... I think I'll leave that one right there as a great example of how terrible battleships are then.

Battleships are not area of denial ships. Ships that are mobile, apply dps quickly and which are difficult to catch are area of denial ships. A Svipul fleet, a hurricane fleet, a cerb fleet are much more effective area of denial ships than a battleship, especially now in the Fozziesov era.

In short battleships don't have a role that cannot be performed by another ship as well or better. There are a few battleships that can also perform well however that's not because of a particular battleship ability its because they have certain non-battleship abilties (speed, nuets, drones bonuses, utility highs not being required for battleship sized weaponry).

In short the main reason you will find battleships in fleets is because of 1) t1 newb friendly and insurance 2) some faction ships like Machs don't suffer as badly from being a battleship because they have bonuses.

Frankly as things stand, a carrier with a networked sensor array or a HAW Dread are better battleships than battleships are. They can kill subcaps much better than battleships can in most cases. The last time I orbited a battleship with an AB Arazu at 30km it couldn't hit me. The last time I orbited a dread at 30km in an AB Lachesis it killed me in 2 volleys. Enuff said.

learn 2 read mate.....

Now you know what it's like for me when people post their opinions on how to "fix" war declarations!