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Testing of Fitting Simulation

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Author
Aaril
Interstellar Consulting Group
#61 - 2016-09-30 21:16:53 UTC
I have been using Pyfa to push cargo items into fitting for a while. When I click simulate none of the cargo items translate.

Example:

http://i.imgur.com/a3BqVz0.png

While the new fitting simulation does have a place for drones and cargo, is it planned to allow us to utilize this cargo space effectively? I can add modules to the cargo, but they do not get saved to my fittings (the same way that Pyfa allows it to be pushed in the screenshot above).

Also, I do not see the ability to add charges for items not currently fitted (for example I could have refit modules in my cargo which use different ammo types).

It would also be nice to allow us to edit the cargo stack size (I see we can shift drag ammo to the cargo, but cannot edit the stack size once it is there).
Papera Ebaki
Actos Violentos
#62 - 2016-09-30 23:22:48 UTC
Q1) When fitting charges - am I still able to put different charges in the same type of module? For example, using two Omnidirectional Tracking Links ~ I might want tracking speed in 1 and optimal range in the other?

Q2) Am I also able to individually select different races of drones? For example, if I am flying a VNI/Ishtar I like to see what damage different races of drones can do in regards to overall damage. Even sometimes I create an 'alpha' group of drones which is a mixture of different damage types and sizes ~ this still possible?

Looking at the tool I didn't see any way of transferring missing skills from a ship design to either my current skill queue or even to a new note in notepad. As such, I'd still need to copy the new build then paste into EveMon to see what I need to do to fly the build.

Pe
Lugh Crow-Slave
#63 - 2016-10-01 03:34:53 UTC
when you show info on a ship right down at the bottom where show in ship tree/view market there should be a button for simulate. Ether that or put it on the fitting tab of the show info
CCP karkur
C C P
C C P Alliance
#64 - 2016-10-01 09:23:14 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP karkur
Currently we are not offering modification of the characters, it's all based on your character. We want to keep this simple, stick to the basics and not overwhelm people. If we add too many options and settings, it gets pretty complex pretty soon. The awesome 3rd party tools do a fantastic job of offering all sorts of advanced things like that Smile
At some point, we could add more options and functionality, but at this point, we are pretty happy with feature set, and need to be careful not to feature creep too much Smile

Pandora Finder wrote:
- To what it seems, adding ammo/charges to the cargohold seems to be an pain. I like the drag ammo/charge into cargo option, but i wish it asked how much of the ammo/charge I would like to have. ( I noticed the Favorite Tab for charges which is nice )

- Drones are in same way, but I do not like the big rectangle window that shows every drone. Just give me a single line of the drone with the amount of the drones. Ex: " Warrior II x 5 " . I understand the effectiveness of having to select which drone you want, but there is resolve for it if somehow make a "group/active" spot or somesort. Just trying to imagine seeing the list of small drones in a Dominix, Oh the unnecessary window/room.
Similar to splitting stack in inventory, shift dragging allows you to add many (maybe that needs to be the default though).
Agreed on the drones, we are changing them to group them Smile

Pandora Finder wrote:

- Idea from EFT, that is used a ton from myself, able to right click on an fitted module/rig/ect and have an option to "Open Market Group" which automatically bring up modules of the same group like, Ex "Heavy Beam Laser II" You may need to look at all types of the beam lasers to declare which lasers you want because if have ran into an issue of fitting requirements..
We've already added 'find in browser' (similar to the functionality in the market)

Pandora Finder wrote:
P.S. I noticed that there is no "Limit" to ship fits. Is this REAL OR ???? the limited ship fittings has been a very disheartening thing, if this is gone away, THANK YOU VERY MUCH! :)
? that's not on purpose at least. You can see how many are saved in a tooltip on the filters.

Papera Ebaki wrote:
Q1) When fitting charges - am I still able to put different charges in the same type of module? For example, using two Omnidirectional Tracking Links ~ I might want tracking speed in 1 and optimal range in the other?

Q2) Am I also able to individually select different races of drones? For example, if I am flying a VNI/Ishtar I like to see what damage different races of drones can do in regards to overall damage. Even sometimes I create an 'alpha' group of drones which is a mixture of different damage types and sizes ~ this still possible?

Looking at the tool I didn't see any way of transferring missing skills from a ship design to either my current skill queue or even to a new note in notepad. As such, I'd still need to copy the new build then paste into EveMon to see what I need to do to fly the build.

Pe

A1) sure... just drag to the slots directly.
A2)I don't see why not (we'll be changing the drone view though)

And yeah, allowing you go compile a list of missing skills is something we should add Smile

Aaril wrote:
While the new fitting simulation does have a place for drones and cargo, is it planned to allow us to utilize this cargo space effectively? I can add modules to the cargo, but they do not get saved to my fittings (the same way that Pyfa allows it to be pushed in the screenshot above).

Also, I do not see the ability to add charges for items not currently fitted (for example I could have refit modules in my cargo which use different ammo types).

It would also be nice to allow us to edit the cargo stack size (I see we can shift drag ammo to the cargo, but cannot edit the stack size once it is there).
We are very aware that people want to save fits with extra stuff in the cargo, but there are certain limitation that we have to deal with to support that. People *shouldn't* be able to save that into their fits. We could *fix* it, strip it from the fittings and disallow it, but we do see that it's useful so we decided to rather at least have it show in the fit, and not be hidden. But we are not ready to fully support it right now, so we don't allow it being saved in the fit. Just know that it's kind of high on my list of things I want to do Smile

And we'll probably be changing the charge list to a proper browser, with the modules fitted as filters, but I'm not sure when that will happen.

CCP karkur | Programmer | Team Five 0 | @CCP_karkur

Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices
SLYCE Pirates
#65 - 2016-10-01 21:56:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Salpun
More thoughts.

Any comments on my first set?

Can not pick a rig to switch out. I have to destroy a rig to allow the change stats functionality to work.
The destroy message for rigs while in simulation module mode could be worded better.
Any way we can get mouse over compare on ammo?
The error "not enough ______ free" when checking if a underlining gun or launcher would be a better one needs a better worded explanation.
A way to identify what we want to compare would be nice

A compare method between two versions of the ship would would allow more then one thing to be switched out at a time and allow two versions of a fit to be compared would be nice.
Making the simulate current ship icon smaller and having a second icon below it that saved fits can be dragged and dropped into or current fit can be saved into, would be a great addition. Because there is already a "save as" button they would need to be called version 1, version 2 for an example.
Allowing the red and green widget to compare stats when mousing over a saved fit would also work.
Rigs after switching one out causing 100% Calibaration start the bar flashing stays that way when switching to active ship and back.

Nice to have but probably never get.
A way to identify what we want to compare. high slot or rigs with out unfitting the module.
Did the idea of having items in the browser window show if it was better or not ever come up as a valid idea?

If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide

See you around the universe.

TheSmokingHertog
Julia's Interstellar Trade Emperium
#66 - 2016-10-02 05:57:44 UTC
CCP karkur wrote:


Pandora Finder wrote:

..

A1) sure... just drag to the slots directly.
A2)I don't see why not (we'll be changing the drone view though)

And yeah, allowing you go compile a list of missing skills is something we should add Smile



Please make a Timer on it too, just like in the ship PreRequirement tab btw... on Certificates you can see the training time needed to full-fill the goal. in PreReq tab you dont have a timer. Please make it for ghost fits too.

Example timer on a hulk V certificate > https://puu.sh/r8L21/e9e5191727.jpg

"Dogma is kind of like quantum physics, observing the dogma state will change it." ~ CCP Prism X

"Schrödinger's Missile. I dig it." ~ Makari Aeron

-= "Brain in a Box on Singularity" - April 2015 =-

Nessto Lombardi
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#67 - 2016-10-02 05:59:07 UTC
DooDoo Gum wrote:
In the sea of crappy implementations of 'beta' ideas that CCP have released upon us, this ghost fitting window rises above all else, to be the best idea i have seen so far !

Well done, you all deserve a cold beer (or warm mead, or whatever it is you drink over there)

One gripe I had within a few minutes of playing with it, was that mousing over modules in the browser gives a cost popup window.

This is a fitting window, I use it to fit my ship, please show me relevant information regarding module stats, let me worry about the price somewhere else.

(similar to the way mousing over a skill in the skill training window gives you the skill info instead of the price of the skillbook)


I like the change from price to module stats.

While in skill mode and sitting in a ship I don't have skill to fly. Should the ship be red or something?

I like it
Gustav Mannfred
Summer of Mumuit
Remember Mumuit
#68 - 2016-10-02 09:57:38 UTC
I like this, but there are two things missing in comparison to eft:

1. Simulating the fitting stats with implants: Please make it possibile to add implants and boosts to see how they affect the fitting rather than you have to be in the same clone to see them

2. Add wormholeeffects to see how they affect the stats

i'm REALY miss the old stuff. 

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=24183

Sylvia Kildare
Kinetic Fury
#69 - 2016-10-03 13:08:38 UTC
Captain Campion wrote:
Idea: could we select damage profiles, pre-populated with various rat types - or even the current mission?


If so, don't forget that it'll need at least 2 damage profiles per Worlds Collide. ;)

TheSmokingHertog wrote:
NoobMan wrote:
CCP Karkur's innovation to the game are incredible. Multifit and now this.

Super stoked!


dont forget multisell/buy!


Don't forget bookmarks visible in space and the (nearly) unlimited skillqueue! (best things to come out of the Phoebe update by far)
Jasper Sinclair
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
#70 - 2016-10-03 13:31:59 UTC
The new fitting window is great. I especially like the filters. I didn't play with it a whole lot but the only request I would make at this time is that the Drone title bar should show the drone dps, so you can see it when that part is minimized.

Now if only there was a visual cue for transversal in the hud, like, I don't know, a light that goes from red to green?

Former Blue CEO, admirer of Caracals (and Tristans)

CCP karkur
C C P
C C P Alliance
#71 - 2016-10-03 20:24:14 UTC
Salpun wrote:
After using it for a little while these inconsistencies stand out.

Comparing ammo requires a double click to load while all other modules generate compare info on mouse over.

Price does not stand out the first time I looked around for it.

Boosts could be added.

A back and forth button so you can flip between two or more fits would be nice.

If I am cycling a module to see the change in stats I really do not want to see the stats if its turned off.

When a stat change turning green or red should do so at all times some state changes do not generate the color text.

-We'll take a look at the ammo comparison, but the way it's set up is that there's only ever 1 preview item and I'm not sure it's worth it to change it (or we could just have ammo preview on one of the modules)
-We'll probably be moving the price.
-3rd party tools do a great job with boosts and similar advanced functionality, and we won't be adding that (at least not for now).
-In order to have a back/forth button you'd have to have a well defined idea of what is a 'fit'... if it's what you save, then you can just use the browser to switch between them.
-I recently fixed it where green text was missing for dps and alpha strike, but if you know of more cases where the color is missing please let me know Smile

CCP karkur | Programmer | Team Five 0 | @CCP_karkur

CCP karkur
C C P
C C P Alliance
#72 - 2016-10-03 20:26:43 UTC
Sylvia Kildare wrote:
TheSmokingHertog wrote:
NoobMan wrote:
CCP Karkur's innovation to the game are incredible. Multifit and now this.

Super stoked!


dont forget multisell/buy!


Don't forget bookmarks visible in space and the (nearly) unlimited skillqueue! (best things to come out of the Phoebe update by far)
While I appreciate the kind words, I can't really take credit for all of that Smile

CCP karkur | Programmer | Team Five 0 | @CCP_karkur

Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices
SLYCE Pirates
#73 - 2016-10-03 23:14:59 UTC
CCP karkur

Fit should be what I have in the simulator verse what I have saved and hold the current fit so I can switch back.

Other thoughts

CPU and Power grid turn red when using more even if its not over what is available.

Things that do not generate red or green indications:

Turning modules on or off- only way to see exactly what a module does with with a full fit.
Changing Ammo-Missiles tested.
Headers.

Ammo placed in the ship if fitting mode does not save to fittings.
Having to fit ammo every time is annoying.

Calibration says what is left, not what is used, different then any other number in the panel.

Opening the cargo hold from the fitting screen would be nice, currently it allows you to open the drone bay.

Comparing ships without ammo ie a saved fit does not work well.

Can the group weapon option be available on the simulate side and allow all grouped weapons to be compared with a moused over set in the browse. Would help compare full racks of weapons easier.
Nice to have:
An update fit(using current name)/ save new version using different name toggle would be nice.
Any way that mousing over the right click menu to overheat would show the results for a moment?


If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide

See you around the universe.

TheSmokingHertog
Julia's Interstellar Trade Emperium
#74 - 2016-10-04 16:02:45 UTC
Is it an idea to go with "non-pirate" instead of "non-empire"?

"Dogma is kind of like quantum physics, observing the dogma state will change it." ~ CCP Prism X

"Schrödinger's Missile. I dig it." ~ Makari Aeron

-= "Brain in a Box on Singularity" - April 2015 =-

Matar Ronin
#75 - 2016-10-04 16:42:42 UTC
I am very pleased with how the Ghost Fit Simulator works on the test server. Excellent work thank you.

I am wondering can it be linked to owned assets?

Examples:
Could it also show the modules/parts/hulls I own and their location without switching to the owned assets search window?
Could it show the numbers of assets I own to complete the simulated fit, as in another color if I already have the part?
Could it show the BP required to produce item/items featured in the simulated ship fit?

It would be even more functional if you could incorporate more of the "one stop more ability" that you seem to be weaving into it. For ship builders this tool will be great, it will help the NPE by taking some of the mystery out of fitting.

‘Vain flame burns fast/and its lick is light/Modest flame lasts long/and burns to the bone.’

" We lost a war we chose not to fight." Without a doubt this is the best way to lose any war and the worst excuse to explain the beating afterwards.

CCP Lebowski
C C P
C C P Alliance
#76 - 2016-10-06 17:19:51 UTC
Hey all,

A few changes/improvements have been made to Fitting Simulation in the last few days that I want to highlight:

  • The drone dropdown menu has been updated to make it easy to add remove and modify stacks of drones.
  • A "Find Type in Browser" option has been added to the right click menu of modules fitted to a simulated ship.
  • The option to turn on a slot filter has been moved to the right click menu for a slot (Activating this by double clicking a slot seemed to be causing some confusion).
  • Drone Dps has been added to the drone panel header.
  • Simulated drones now have tooltips that show their pertinent stats.

Thanks a ton for all your great feedback & bug reports! We've also have a plethora of suggestions, and while some of these might be plausible for future iterations, we are broadly happy with the feature set we have for the first release, and would prefer to focus on getting what we have to a highly polished quality level.

Thanks again for your continued assistance,

CCP Lebowski | EVE Quality Assurance | Team Five-0

@CCP_Lebowski

Matar Ronin
#77 - 2016-10-06 17:48:48 UTC
Polish on!

‘Vain flame burns fast/and its lick is light/Modest flame lasts long/and burns to the bone.’

" We lost a war we chose not to fight." Without a doubt this is the best way to lose any war and the worst excuse to explain the beating afterwards.

Lugh Crow-Slave
#78 - 2016-10-06 18:22:44 UTC
CCP Lebowski wrote:
Hey all,

A few changes/improvements have been made to Fitting Simulation in the last few days that I want to highlight:

  • The drone dropdown menu has been updated to make it easy to add remove and modify stacks of drones.
  • A "Find Type in Browser" option has been added to the right click menu of modules fitted to a simulated ship.
  • The option to turn on a slot filter has been moved to the right click menu for a slot (Activating this by double clicking a slot seemed to be causing some confusion).
  • Drone Dps has been added to the drone panel header.
  • Simulated drones now have tooltips that show their pertinent stats.

Thanks a ton for all your great feedback & bug reports! We've also have a plethora of suggestions, and while some of these might be plausible for future iterations, we are broadly happy with the feature set we have for the first release, and would prefer to focus on getting what we have to a highly polished quality level.

Thanks again for your continued assistance,



fighter DPS ever getting added?
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#79 - 2016-10-10 05:09:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Bienator II
a feature request for "later":
- display your implants as fitting for your capsule
- just like zkill does
- button toggles between ship and pod fitting unless you are already in a pod

bonus:
- display active drugs as capsule "modules" in their specific slots


edit: something like that: http://i.imgur.com/8TnZShn.png

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value

Winter Archipelago
Autumn Industrial Enterprises
#80 - 2016-10-13 18:06:34 UTC
As I'm messing around with this a bit (a little late, I know, sorry), it took me a while to figure out where the Buy Fit option had gone, and it had to be pointed out to me by CCP Lebowski. Adding visibility in some way to the estimated cost might be helpful in that, or else it may end up as one of the "hidden features" like the old "Open Market Group" option used to be a few years back. Maybe using the multibuy button in front of it would make this a little more obvious?