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[November] Orca Changes

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Drigo Segvian
Black Fox Marauders
Pen Is Out
#141 - 2016-10-06 11:39:58 UTC
If the gankers are crying then its a good change. +1 CCP Cool
Zan Shiro
Doomheim
#142 - 2016-10-06 13:03:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Zan Shiro
Drigo Segvian wrote:
If the gankers are crying then its a good change. +1 CCP Cool



I think some are just mad because they abused ship swap out ability under shady mechanics that got fixed. This new orca...would make that so much better. Shame they wore out that welcome already long ago lol. Why I am taking their rants with a grain of salt. They used to love the crap out of orca. For the EHP it has even now. mixed with refit/reship.

They got greedy, had a questionable mechanic skylined to wtf levels....it met nerf bat. If they didn't abuse that ability they could have maybe kept it in some way and could enjoy new and improved orca.

Inb4 not all gankesrs used this. Enough did to invalidate the EHP is/will be BS. This didn't become an issue till after they abused a mechanic and had it taken away. Don't abuse mechanics, maybe you get to keep nice toys the moral to the story there. I know some other forums I have seen combat orca mentioned. Lets not mess this up guys as she is looking to get real nice soon, remember the moral above lol. Use it but not to the point CCP goes umm, yeah, nerf lol.
Brokk Witgenstein
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#143 - 2016-10-06 20:56:18 UTC
Doubt you can keep this thing in a belt though. Won't be long before it's bumping so hard it's drones can't even catch up to the bay and you're stranded with no boosts, no mining and no place to go.

We might see an uptick in bumperinoes... and by the time there'll be one in any ole' belt, at least it would be worth my time suicideXploding all dem machs.

Will keep a close eye on it, to see how this plays out ...
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#144 - 2016-10-06 21:05:25 UTC
I pretty much certain that will be the case unless people forego boosts in highsec. That's just going to be a side effect of targets being visible.

I'm still in the dark on the feasibility of counter-bump ganking but just looking at it it doesn't seem worthwhile compared to just not having a booster.
Goati
Doomheim
#145 - 2016-10-06 21:41:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Goati
These new Orcas are so ridicluous that I can tell you now that they will be bumped out of belts on a constant basis. Due to boosts now required to be within 45km to be received it will be very easy to keep anyone using these new Orcas as a booster/hauler/miner (bloody ridiculous) from being of any use at all.

If bumped away the new Orca can't mine, can't boost, and can't haul. That's the one counter to this new ridiculous booster/super hauler/miner all in one. It's not ganker tears we're going to see, it's going to be miner tears galore.
Penance Toralen
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#146 - 2016-10-06 21:50:03 UTC
Goati wrote:
These new Orcas are so ridicluous that I can tell you now that they will be bumped out of belts on a constant basis. Due to boosts now required to be within 45km to be received it will be very easy to keep anyone using these new Orcas as a booster/hauler/miner (bloody ridiculous) from being of any use at all.

If bumped away the new Orca can't mine, can't boost, and can't haul. That's the one counter to this new ridiculous booster/super hauler/miner all in one. It's not ganker tears we're going to see, it's going to be miner tears galore.


No it's already beaten. The orca pilot can just dump and anchor a dozen GSC in a sphere around the ship forming a cage. No bumping put. What's the next plan?
Brokk Witgenstein
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#147 - 2016-10-06 21:50:53 UTC
Yeap. Pretty much. Can't safelog either-- but don't dare to call it 'broken' on the forums or you'll be stigmatised Bear For Life ;-) Blowing them up may not be the most elegant solution and there sure won't be any loot in it, but at least it looks good on the KB. Until they start winning the ISK war with, say, plated bumpVentures or something. Stay tuned, folks!
Brokk Witgenstein
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#148 - 2016-10-06 21:51:48 UTC
Penance Toralen wrote:

No it's already beaten. The orca pilot can just dump and anchor a dozen GSC in a sphere around the ship forming a cage. No bumping put. What's the next plan?

Question What's a "GSC"
Goati
Doomheim
#149 - 2016-10-06 22:11:55 UTC
Penance Toralen wrote:
Goati wrote:
These new Orcas are so ridicluous that I can tell you now that they will be bumped out of belts on a constant basis. Due to boosts now required to be within 45km to be received it will be very easy to keep anyone using these new Orcas as a booster/hauler/miner (bloody ridiculous) from being of any use at all.

If bumped away the new Orca can't mine, can't boost, and can't haul. That's the one counter to this new ridiculous booster/super hauler/miner all in one. It's not ganker tears we're going to see, it's going to be miner tears galore.


No it's already beaten. The orca pilot can just dump and anchor a dozen GSC in a sphere around the ship forming a cage. No bumping put. What's the next plan?


Lol, good luck if you think that will help save a single Orca from bumping.
Sylvia Kildare
Kinetic Fury
#150 - 2016-10-06 22:40:09 UTC
Darrien wrote:
Sizeof Void wrote:
Love it, but isn't it maybe a tad bit OP?

I'm pretty sure that it could solo run most L4 missions AFK, with that amount of drone damage, coupled with that much tank.

And, with the bonused tractor range/speed, extra highs and large cargo hold, it could also easily do its own looting & salvaging.


Missions is a relatively easy fix, just remove there gate access, although it'll make mission miners sad I assume.


There are missions that don't have gates, though, so...
Mark O'Helm
Fam. Zimin von Reizgenschwendt
#151 - 2016-10-06 22:45:58 UTC
Brokk Witgenstein wrote:
Penance Toralen wrote:

No it's already beaten. The orca pilot can just dump and anchor a dozen GSC in a sphere around the ship forming a cage. No bumping put. What's the next plan?

Question What's a "GSC"

Giant secure container, i guess.

"Frauenversteher wissen, was Frauen wollen. Aber Frauen wollen keine Frauenversteher. Weil Frauenversteher wissen, was Frauen wollen." (Ein Single)

"Wirklich coolen Leuten ist es egal, ob sie cool sind." (Einer, dem es egal ist)
Elijah Boondock
Subsidy H.R.S.
Xagenic Freymvork
#152 - 2016-10-07 00:52:59 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
I'm concerned for a few reasons.
> Lack of system wide mining bonus
> Battle mining fleets using the orca and skiffs that are impossible to kill.
> How about a mining increase to exhumers? so everyone that wasted training to mining barge level V for the hulk which got Raped Nerf-ed can have it back again. I use to be able to mine 1,100 m3 with three laser's and have a cargohold over 15k so i didn't need a haler or orca. just me.
> This isn't a mining boost! I feel robbed by CCP's title! no mining ship got a boost non mining ships became mining ships. I'm a dual boxer nothing in this mining boost is going to help me unless i deiced to become a HS orca AFK miner. "next patch we remove the reason why we made plex's and allow every Asian farmer back into the game and return there isk" Clone grade alpha!

STORY
A few years back my friend kept his Rorqual under a bubble as it was to expensive to loose. So he took this experience and used it for his orca as at the time Corp Jihads were a thing and 700 mil each was way too much to be replacing.

The bonus for fleet went the whole system tho. Under this new system you won't be able to leave expensive ships safe. Like WH. I don't care how cool you make the Rorqual i still think for the price it belongs under a bubble which are going away too.

Maybe eve is for a new generation and im just too old.

(The real reason for Citadels is to prevent tools like Eve-central from working. CREST complete rubbish expected, So Tuff)

So is there a place that i turn my POS in for what i paid for it as nobody wants it and there going away? Or is there a button i push to turn it into a citadel? Or can i go on POS welfare if i Keep it?
Neugeniko
Insight Securities
#153 - 2016-10-07 02:51:10 UTC
Hi,
Just some info for people trying to calculate drone mining on the new orca.

T2 Mining Drone Base Mining Amount = 33 m3 per minute
5 levels of Mining Drone Operation = 25%
5 levels of Drone Interfacing = 50%
5 levels of (NEW) Mining Drone Specialization = 10%
5 levels of Industrial Command Ships = 50%
Orca Mining Drone Role Bonus = 100%
1 T2 Drone mining rig = 15%
1 T2 Drone mining rig = 15%
1 T1 Drone mining rig = 10%

*Mining drone rigs don't have a stacking penalty currently. Checked and confirmed in client.

Mining Amount per Drone = 33*1.25*1.5*1.1*1.5*2.0*1.15*1.15*1.1 = 297.04 m3 per minute
5 drones is 5 x 297.04 = 1485 m3 per minute

For augmented drones its then 1485*1.09 = 1619 m3 per minute

With current stats harvester drones would do 1636 m3 per minute, they don't benefit
from mining drone specialization thou.

Cheers,
Neug


Indices/Mining Simulator V6.41 UPDATED*

Daily Forge Mineral Sales Summary V1.5

Neug's Prime Industrial Real Estate V1.3
Marox Calendale
Xynodyne
The Initiative.
#154 - 2016-10-07 08:55:11 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
...
Slot layout: 6H (+3),
...
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 60 / 0.26 (+0.1) / 150,000,000 (-100,000,000) / 54.07s (-1.38)
...
Ore Hold: 150,000m3 (+100,000)
...
Let us know what you think!

These changes are really awesome. Additional High Slots were really needed to support mining fleets. Now you can boost and collect cans at one time. Great!

The Mass and orehold changes are also really awesome. You can´t image how happy I am with that. Now the orca is much better an alternative to jump ore thru any kind of wormhole to a T2 Hauler. These still have the better Mass/Orehold ratio, but now it is not as worse as it was before.
But could we get a PI Extention too? Please! It is so annoying to jump PI thru wormholes. Even with T2 Haulers it is not very better to bring in 1 Million m³ of Pi. What about an Ore/Planetary Interaction Hold for the Orca?
Goati
Doomheim
#155 - 2016-10-07 09:56:44 UTC
Neugeniko wrote:
Hi,
Just some info for people trying to calculate drone mining on the new orca.

T2 Mining Drone Base Mining Amount = 33 m3 per minute
5 levels of Mining Drone Operation = 25%
5 levels of Drone Interfacing = 50%
5 levels of (NEW) Mining Drone Specialization = 10%
5 levels of Industrial Command Ships = 50%
Orca Mining Drone Role Bonus = 100%
1 T2 Drone mining rig = 15%
1 T2 Drone mining rig = 15%
1 T1 Drone mining rig = 10%

*Mining drone rigs don't have a stacking penalty currently. Checked and confirmed in client.

Mining Amount per Drone = 33*1.25*1.5*1.1*1.5*2.0*1.15*1.15*1.1 = 297.04 m3 per minute
5 drones is 5 x 297.04 = 1485 m3 per minute

For augmented drones its then 1485*1.09 = 1619 m3 per minute

With current stats harvester drones would do 1636 m3 per minute, they don't benefit
from mining drone specialization thou.

Cheers,
Neug




So basically an orca will be able to mine like a boosted Exhumer with an epic sized cargo hold. The only way to counter it in most cases in high-sec is to bump it. This will end well.
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#156 - 2016-10-07 09:56:46 UTC
Penance Toralen wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:
A compression module for the Orca would be nice, having to dock it up every 16 or 17 minutes to empty it or have a freighter on standby (especially in lowsec), pretty much defeats its ongrid role.

Suggestion; Highslot module, lowsec/nulsec activation only, 300 Heavy water to activate (reduces by 25% per lvl Capital Industrial Ships) 60 second activation time, no auto repeat. Works just like its Rorqual counterpart by immobilizing the Orca for the duration of the cycle (has a nice clear animation so everyone nearby can see it is active)


Is 17 minutes factoring in the increased orehold?

I'd prefer a deployable and non-scoopable mobile compressor. (consumables are good for business). Which would also give soloist potential usage if it was small enough in cargo. Destoryable similar to the mobile tractor - so agressors can get action. If it was scoopable, then a compression loss at 1 in 6.

It is, I have to dock up to empty it every 10 to 12 minutes now. It won't take much longer to fill the new ore hold.

I discarded a deployable as an option, as orca bumping is going to be a real thing.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#157 - 2016-10-07 11:34:57 UTC
Marox Calendale wrote:
… alternative to jump ore thru any kind of wormhole to a T2 Hauler. These still have the better Mass/Orehold ratio, but now it is not as worse as it was before.
But could we get a PI Extention too? Please! It is so annoying to jump PI thru wormholes. Even with T2 Haulers it is not very better to bring in 1 Million m³ of Pi. What about an Ore/Planetary Interaction Hold for the Orca?


Sounds like you need to suggest a T2 epithal, and the place for that is F&I discussion :D

Day 0 Advice for New Players
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#158 - 2016-10-07 11:56:12 UTC
Goati wrote:
Neugeniko wrote:
Hi,
Just some info for people trying to calculate drone mining on the new orca.

T2 Mining Drone Base Mining Amount = 33 m3 per minute
5 levels of Mining Drone Operation = 25%
5 levels of Drone Interfacing = 50%
5 levels of (NEW) Mining Drone Specialization = 10%
5 levels of Industrial Command Ships = 50%
Orca Mining Drone Role Bonus = 100%
1 T2 Drone mining rig = 15%
1 T2 Drone mining rig = 15%
1 T1 Drone mining rig = 10%

*Mining drone rigs don't have a stacking penalty currently. Checked and confirmed in client.

Mining Amount per Drone = 33*1.25*1.5*1.1*1.5*2.0*1.15*1.15*1.1 = 297.04 m3 per minute
5 drones is 5 x 297.04 = 1485 m3 per minute

For augmented drones its then 1485*1.09 = 1619 m3 per minute

With current stats harvester drones would do 1636 m3 per minute, they don't benefit
from mining drone specialization thou.

Cheers,
Neug




So basically an orca will be able to mine like a boosted Exhumer with an epic sized cargo hold. The only way to counter it in most cases in high-sec is to bump it. This will end well.



That's mining drones though. Which have travel time to and from roids. Even when you're right on top of them, the drones orbit at 5km, so you do lose time on it.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
HandelsPharmi
Pharmi on CharBazaar
#159 - 2016-10-07 12:23:59 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
Goati wrote:
Neugeniko wrote:
Hi,
Just some info for people trying to calculate drone mining on the new orca.

T2 Mining Drone Base Mining Amount = 33 m3 per minute
5 levels of Mining Drone Operation = 25%
5 levels of Drone Interfacing = 50%
5 levels of (NEW) Mining Drone Specialization = 10%
5 levels of Industrial Command Ships = 50%
Orca Mining Drone Role Bonus = 100%
1 T2 Drone mining rig = 15%
1 T2 Drone mining rig = 15%
1 T1 Drone mining rig = 10%

*Mining drone rigs don't have a stacking penalty currently. Checked and confirmed in client.

Mining Amount per Drone = 33*1.25*1.5*1.1*1.5*2.0*1.15*1.15*1.1 = 297.04 m3 per minute
5 drones is 5 x 297.04 = 1485 m3 per minute

For augmented drones its then 1485*1.09 = 1619 m3 per minute

With current stats harvester drones would do 1636 m3 per minute, they don't benefit
from mining drone specialization thou.

Cheers,
Neug




So basically an orca will be able to mine like a boosted Exhumer with an epic sized cargo hold. The only way to counter it in most cases in high-sec is to bump it. This will end well.



That's mining drones though. Which have travel time to and from roids. Even when you're right on top of them, the drones orbit at 5km, so you do lose time on it.


up to 3 cans ore per hour... this is not even close to a Venture
I do not understand, what are you comparing. An unfitted Hulk without any MLUs?
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#160 - 2016-10-07 18:37:46 UTC
Goati wrote:
Neugeniko wrote:
Hi,
Just some info for people trying to calculate drone mining on the new orca.

T2 Mining Drone Base Mining Amount = 33 m3 per minute
5 levels of Mining Drone Operation = 25%
5 levels of Drone Interfacing = 50%
5 levels of (NEW) Mining Drone Specialization = 10%
5 levels of Industrial Command Ships = 50%
Orca Mining Drone Role Bonus = 100%
1 T2 Drone mining rig = 15%
1 T2 Drone mining rig = 15%
1 T1 Drone mining rig = 10%

*Mining drone rigs don't have a stacking penalty currently. Checked and confirmed in client.

Mining Amount per Drone = 33*1.25*1.5*1.1*1.5*2.0*1.15*1.15*1.1 = 297.04 m3 per minute
5 drones is 5 x 297.04 = 1485 m3 per minute

For augmented drones its then 1485*1.09 = 1619 m3 per minute

With current stats harvester drones would do 1636 m3 per minute, they don't benefit
from mining drone specialization thou.

Cheers,
Neug




So basically an orca will be able to mine like a boosted Exhumer with an epic sized cargo hold. The only way to counter it in most cases in high-sec is to bump it. This will end well.
Depends on which exhumer. A 2 MLU Hulk mines 1698m^3/min WITHOUT boosts and ~2500 with a mindlinked max skilled Orca. A skiff 1203m^3/min without boosts, ~1780 with those same boosts.

If the idea is to have the Skiff and Mack stand out more then the orca could stand to be toned down a bit, but maybe the expectation is that most will forego full yield rigging and faction drones?