These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Upcoming Feature and Change Feedback Center

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

[November] Introducing the Porpoise

First post First post
Author
Lugh Crow-Slave
#61 - 2016-10-05 02:55:30 UTC
RainReaper wrote:
While I like the Porpoise and its stats and the fact that it is allowed into frigate size wh space the one complaint I have is...

Did you really have to reuse the noctis model? I was kinda hoping for a new hull but oh well...



so was I but considering the art team is no doubt having most of their time taken up by the new structures (both the ones coming out at the same time as well as the later ones)
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#62 - 2016-10-05 02:55:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Tyberius Franklin
Morgan Johnstone wrote:
I'm blind so i might have missed it, what are the skill differences between this ship and the Orca? With such a drastic price difference I believe the skills needed will be much lower as well.

Boost strength
Can only use 2 command bursts
Tractor range and speed
Cargo hold of 500 vs 37.5k
No SMB
5k vs 40k fleet hangar
EHP

But that doesn't really mean much since it's up against the new Orca.

Edit: missread and missed that you were asking about skill differences specifically

It draws benefit from the same skill so probably not going to be a difference there barring another change.
Morgan Agrivar
Doomheim
#63 - 2016-10-05 03:44:09 UTC
Blastil wrote:
looking at this right off the bat, I'm going to say I'm excited for the porpoise and I'm not even an industrialist.

A logi ship with slightly reduced range, but an extra 400 ish DPS from drones? Ill allow it. I'm seeing it now: Gila fleets backed by porpoises.

Or mining Vexors... *shudder*
13kr1d1
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#64 - 2016-10-05 04:48:07 UTC  |  Edited by: 13kr1d1
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
RainReaper wrote:
While I like the Porpoise and its stats and the fact that it is allowed into frigate size wh space the one complaint I have is...

Did you really have to reuse the noctis model? I was kinda hoping for a new hull but oh well...



so was I but considering the art team is no doubt having most of their time taken up by the new structures (both the ones coming out at the same time as well as the later ones)



No excuse. If its their job, they can crank out something quickly day after day. You might take 10 hours to draw a few boxes and flowers, but good artists can get an almost payworthy sketch crapped out in 30 minutes.


This is what design progression looks like.
http://www.startrek.com/article/designing-the-defiant

I'd flip a sigil upside down, split the carapace part down the middle and open it up, Add some crab legs to the existing ruts on the sides that curl downward toward the split area, Add a high neck bridge on the back that looks like an aircraft carrier sort and call it a day.. if I was that lazy.

Don't kid yourselves. Even the dirtiest pirates from the birth of EVE have been carebears. They use alts to bring them goods at cheap prices and safely, rather than live with consequences of their in game actions on their main, from concord to prices

May'n Nome
Hateful Intent
Triumvirate.
#65 - 2016-10-05 05:01:22 UTC
First off, reading over the Porpoise gives me hope as one of the things I started doing in EVE besides Exploration was Mining. I find it a great way to relax and get into a state of mind where I can play (as well as check my business stuff and wake up in the morning watching Youtube/Crunchyroll/Netflix/Twitch). The hope is that Mining can become a more more engaging activity for the fleet and get the skills for the most important Ship of all; Friendship.

That said, I do agree...we need more of the ORE BPOs available to the public. A few more stations with them in Low and 0.5 High Sec perhaps?

"Threefold is the time's pace: the future comes not in haste, the present is gone arrow fast, eternally still remains the past."

13kr1d1
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#66 - 2016-10-05 07:06:47 UTC
May'n Nome wrote:
First off, reading over the Porpoise gives me hope as one of the things I started doing in EVE besides Exploration was Mining. I find it a great way to relax and get into a state of mind where I can play (as well as check my business stuff and wake up in the morning watching Youtube/Crunchyroll/Netflix/Twitch). The hope is that Mining can become a more more engaging activity for the fleet and get the skills for the most important Ship of all; Friendship.

That said, I do agree...we need more of the ORE BPOs available to the public. A few more stations with them in Low and 0.5 High Sec perhaps?


Or you could buy them from other players willing to ship thme out there, or create a buy order or contract, etc.

You know, if you care about player economy and interaction, which you seem to do in the same breath you claim it was easier to get BPO's without any help.


I'd rather they have a sort of mobile mining platform that is player controlled. Think of it like the battleship or dread version of the mining sector.

this theoretical mining platform is an wide and flat thing, like that one stealth bomber but without the crab legs.

It moves and aligns like or worse than a basic impel.

But it has room for six strip miners. These 6 strip miners have penalties to yield, but they will gather 50% more volume than any of the other ships.

Being so slow and helpless of a target, it needs a group for protection. So its definitely a corp asset.

What makes this idea great is it can get the roids that have 1/4th or less of the maximum ores left in it, so it can work on those roids that would be inefficient to waste mining time on for ore ships with higher yield per laser.


It improves efficiency of people working together on a mechanical level, not even a balance based level, like most ship tweaks are, it itself is a nice boost of income that is dangerous and not profitable without support (aka a corp) .


That's what good game changes should be like most of the time, improving the mechanical aspect of gameplay through cooperative gameplay without actually touching any buffs or nerfs.

Don't kid yourselves. Even the dirtiest pirates from the birth of EVE have been carebears. They use alts to bring them goods at cheap prices and safely, rather than live with consequences of their in game actions on their main, from concord to prices

Cora Namoor
Anson Astrometrics And Assembly
#67 - 2016-10-05 07:46:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Cora Namoor
Only criticism I have is... all the ships in this update are getting larger holds. We have a new Ore Industrial hull. Anyone remember the Primae? Anyone? Runs about 8 mil out classed by the Epithal 45:1 @ 1/2 the price. Anyway we could have a dev "sneak" in and modify a few stats to make it relevant?
Idea
Say a Command Center Hold 1k + 1k per lvl of Ore Industrial and base 40k PI Hold +10% per lvl in Ore Industrial. Same as Epithal but dedicated Command Center Hold for seeding a system and still has the utility to haul it afterwards. Saves you hauling 2 ships thru a wh to start a PI chain. Maybe add the Porpoise wh mass bonus and it still keeps its low sig stat. Makes the ship useful?!? Yes? No?

PS why not monetize with a few dedicated skins for the ORE Industrial line?
13kr1d1
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#68 - 2016-10-05 08:30:17 UTC
Cora Namoor wrote:
Only criticism I have is... all the ships in this update are getting larger holds. We have a new Ore Industrial hull. Anyone remember the Primae? Anyone? Runs about 8 mil out classed by the Epithal 45:1 @ 1/2 the price. Anyway we could have a dev "sneak" in and modify a few stats to make it relevant?
Idea
Say a Command Center Hold 1k + 1k per lvl of Ore Industrial and base 40k PI Hold +10% per lvl in Ore Industrial. Same as Epithal but dedicated Command Center Hold for seeding a system and still has the utility to haul it afterwards. Saves you hauling 2 ships thru a wh to start a PI chain. Maybe add the Porpoise wh mass bonus and it still keeps its low sig stat. Makes the ship useful?!? Yes? No?


On the subject of relevancy, bestower is pretty awful. Sure it can hold the most cargo but then you're a huge gank target with that paper armor. The sigil outclasses it in every other way, and its kind of ironic that the bestower, which is the variant of the impel has such terrible fitting specs and armor, while the sigil excels in fitting specs, armor, speed, and basically everything BUT hold.

Most people should rather cargohold expand a sigil than try to tank a bestower.

Don't kid yourselves. Even the dirtiest pirates from the birth of EVE have been carebears. They use alts to bring them goods at cheap prices and safely, rather than live with consequences of their in game actions on their main, from concord to prices

Pelea Ming
Tax Evasion Fund
Sandbaggers United
#69 - 2016-10-05 08:48:50 UTC
ok, I know my greivance isn't particularly relevant to this specific thread, BUT...

wtf do the mining bursts share the same duration as combat bursts? Mining fleets take up a MUCH longer amount of game play/time then combat does, even in blop fleets, mining burst duration should share a significantly longer duration per 'shot fired' to match!

At a measely 2 minutes of activation (assuming decent skill levels and such), when your mining fleet is banging rocks for 2 hours (and that's a SHORT mining fleet)....

Am I the only one here who feels that miners are getting shortchanged on this?!?
MrB99
Astral Mining
Astral Industries
#70 - 2016-10-05 08:54:51 UTC
First impressions:

Thanks for an Industrial Command Ship that can get into the smaller sized shattered wormholes.

I'd concur with the comments that since it has to be on-grid to boost it would be nice if the porpoise could contribute to a gas mining op -- either with drones or high-slot gas mining modules. Gas mining should get equal treatment feature-wize with ore and ice. (The tooltips for the gas mining modules could also be brought up to have the same info as ice/ore do so you can see the benefit of fleet boost. Now they omit cycle time and mining amount.)

I'd also concur with the comments that 5000 is small for a fleet hold. If you mine ice and have to drag to the ore hold every 5 ice that's a lot of dragging. Especially if the ships that are loading you fit 10-25 ice.

It would be nice if it had a module that could compress ice in the WH or there was some way to do that. Otherwise it basically hauls as much as a Miasmos and less than a DST (which means you're flying out of the WH to unload and breaking boost pretty often). You can't put a POS, Citadel or Rorq in the smaller shattered wh's to compress ice.
Pelea Ming
Tax Evasion Fund
Sandbaggers United
#71 - 2016-10-05 08:59:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Pelea Ming
Also, the Orca now needs more then 6 high slots if we're going to actually bother to fit RSB to them as well as the Bursts. (and that's assuming we ignore putting on a Tractor!)
Pelea Ming
Tax Evasion Fund
Sandbaggers United
#72 - 2016-10-05 10:36:22 UTC
Also, as the Noctis did receive a mention (in the role of support tractor beams), I'd like to make a point...

Specifically, to judge by the sell order prices spiking, it's looking like Noctis purchases are falling off... most likely due to how much more of a viable option to the single account player the MTU represents.

Can we expect a rebalancing of the Noctis in the future to address these apparently obvious short-comings?
Quazided
Doomheim
#73 - 2016-10-05 11:17:27 UTC
Waited weeks to see a new ship design for the porpoise......

Clicked on the news link excitedly......

Saw the fugly Noctis with a skin job.......

Left disappointed......
Lugh Crow-Slave
#74 - 2016-10-05 11:19:20 UTC
Pelea Ming wrote:
ok, I know my greivance isn't particularly relevant to this specific thread, BUT...

wtf do the mining bursts share the same duration as combat bursts? Mining fleets take up a MUCH longer amount of game play/time then combat does, even in blop fleets, mining burst duration should share a significantly longer duration per 'shot fired' to match!

At a measely 2 minutes of activation (assuming decent skill levels and such), when your mining fleet is banging rocks for 2 hours (and that's a SHORT mining fleet)....

Am I the only one here who feels that miners are getting shortchanged on this?!?


I'm confused how does the length per boost have anything to do with the duration of the mining operation? its there to make sure you need to be in belt (cant just warp in boost warp off) you will have enough ammo in the link to run for five hours

Pelea Ming wrote:
Also, the Orca now needs more then 6 high slots if we're going to actually bother to fit RSB to them as well as the Bursts. (and that's assuming we ignore putting on a Tractor!)


why? right now orcas only run 3 links (two mining one shield) after this you now have 3 more to put reps in. (no one is going to use tractors, no one has since the mtu)
Elenahina
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#75 - 2016-10-05 11:40:21 UTC
Pelea Ming wrote:
Also, the Orca now needs more then 6 high slots if we're going to actually bother to fit RSB to them as well as the Bursts. (and that's assuming we ignore putting on a Tractor!)


Or you could, you know, make an informed decision about which matters the most to you and fit for that, as opposed to trying to fit the entire swiss army knife at the same time.

Eve is like an addiction; you can't quit it until it quits you. Also, iderno

Pelea Ming
Tax Evasion Fund
Sandbaggers United
#76 - 2016-10-05 12:18:59 UTC
just the fact that it becomes a much more sizeable isk sink to be constantly running through the ammo for mining bursts when everyone's on grid for hours at a time vs combat where it's typically resolved in just a few minutes. This is why I feel that mining bursts should (very reasonably imo) have a much longer duration for their effects.
Pelea Ming
Tax Evasion Fund
Sandbaggers United
#77 - 2016-10-05 12:20:11 UTC
as for more HS for the Orca... ok, that was more troll then being serious, I should behave better >.>
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#78 - 2016-10-05 13:16:32 UTC
Pelea Ming wrote:
just the fact that it becomes a much more sizeable isk sink to be constantly running through the ammo for mining bursts when everyone's on grid for hours at a time vs combat where it's typically resolved in just a few minutes. This is why I feel that mining bursts should (very reasonably imo) have a much longer duration for their effects.



500 charges will cost around 125k isk, take up 5m3 of space, and last for about 8 hours (oh noes! you'll need to reload at about the 5 hour mark!)

if 125k isk is a major isk sink for you, you're doing it wrong.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter

Pelea Ming
Tax Evasion Fund
Sandbaggers United
#79 - 2016-10-05 13:41:42 UTC
I'd be perfectly willing to pay more for the charges if I got a longer time period of use out of each one!
Obil Que
Star Explorers
Solis Tenebris
#80 - 2016-10-05 14:57:28 UTC
MrB99 wrote:
First impressions:

Thanks for an Industrial Command Ship that can get into the smaller sized shattered wormholes.

I'd concur with the comments that since it has to be on-grid to boost it would be nice if the porpoise could contribute to a gas mining op -- either with drones or high-slot gas mining modules. Gas mining should get equal treatment feature-wize with ore and ice. (The tooltips for the gas mining modules could also be brought up to have the same info as ice/ore do so you can see the benefit of fleet boost. Now they omit cycle time and mining amount.)

I'd also concur with the comments that 5000 is small for a fleet hold. If you mine ice and have to drag to the ore hold every 5 ice that's a lot of dragging. Especially if the ships that are loading you fit 10-25 ice.

It would be nice if it had a module that could compress ice in the WH or there was some way to do that. Otherwise it basically hauls as much as a Miasmos and less than a DST (which means you're flying out of the WH to unload and breaking boost pretty often). You can't put a POS, Citadel or Rorq in the smaller shattered wh's to compress ice.


I also love the idea of it going into a small shattered
Except it is a shield boosting ship designed to allow it to go into small shattered holes where they get roughly a 50% reduction in shield resistances because of the Wolf-Rayet effect.
Seems very counter-intuitive...