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Intergalactic Summit

 
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Operation Moonshock [DECLASSIFIED]

Author
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#81 - 2016-09-28 18:51:01 UTC
Ben Booley wrote:
Holder Lagann plays her part in the fight for the freedom of all capsuleers with her constant struggle against the drifter menace, who threaten to subsume all. She played no part in this attack.


If you take the Drifters seriously, maybe you could have just avoided this and maybe not caused a bunch of strain and drama?

Lady Tyrathlion might weather this. But the storm itself was optional.

The Drifters haven't made any new moves, but they also haven't withdrawn into Anoikis. We still don't know what the Elements are for, or even what they are. The same goes for the Hive structures and Nexuses.

We've got enough to worry about. More than enough.

You could have helped. Maybe you still can-- I kind of hope so.

But, I don't hold grudges well at all, and I can't speak for others.
Ben Booley
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#82 - 2016-09-28 18:57:54 UTC
Arrendis wrote:

Fourth, money is fungible. Even if, as I'm sure many want to believe, she played no personal role in this attack, she's been one of the individuals whose efforts over time have benefited Rote's coffers, and Rote's coffers have benefited those of the individuals who planned and carried out the attack. This, of course, is a tenuous connection, but criminal racketeering cases in several legal traditions have hinged on such slender threads as a means to uncover deeper ties.



Perhaps then you should lay blame at the feet of Pend Insurance, who financed 99.9% of the operation.
Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#83 - 2016-09-28 19:04:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Arrendis
Cheradenine-Zakalwe Amtiskaw wrote:
Arrendis wrote:


So I hope you like your salt with a healthy does of uric acid, because that ain't tears raining down on your head, Binky.


We're both talking past each other.

You, because you genuinely don't understand what I am saying in the way I have said it, and I because I make it a practice to shun the framing of those who identify as bastions of consolidated power.

Should you understand my premise, you'd know a roster of things known about us persuades not the clever and perceptive, for these are the truths of worshippers of power and the cult of the masses.


Oh, I understand your premise, Binky. I just think it'd be nice if you actually phrased it in ways that weren't utter shite. You might think you're being verbally complex, but what you're actually doing is diluting your message.

So, let me make this clear:

As a writer or a propagandist, you want your message to be clear. You want it to be easily digested. You want it to be as simple and straightforward as you can get it.

Every iota of effort the targets and subjects of your agitprop need to expend just trying to understand you because you're busy wanking off about being able to maximize your syntactic complexity works against you.

Every. Single. One.

Because they stop caring about what you had to say. Your message becomes lost in 'what is this garbage?' and they mentally crumple it up and throw it away.

Keep it simple, stupid.

Because making your message complex, making your message even one little bit harder for the intended target to parse? That's exactly what it is: stupid. It's counterproductive. It helps your enemies, not you. It impresses exactly one person: yourself. And when you combine your slavish devotion to overly-complex verbiage with actually getting it wrong the way you repeatedly did? You turn people off even faster. Worse, you impress upon them that you have no idea what you're talking about.

Let's review!

"The degree to which one is in the eye of the slave and master is a poor yardstick for free men."

The degree [to which one is in the eye of the slave and master] is a poor yardstick for free men. << That's your primary subject/verb/object. That's fine. That makes sense. So let's look at the secondaries!

to which one is in the eye of the slave and master << to which one is what in the eye of the slave and master? Are you trying to say 'to which one is the slave and master in their own eyes'? Because that's not even close to what the construction you've used means. Are you trying to say 'to which one is important in the eye of the slave and master'? Maybe! It'd fit your message. Unfortunately you left out the most important word. Even more hilarious, considering in that construction, the most important word is actually "important"!

And then when I suggested you re-read so you could maybe edit it for clarity... Binky got pissy, and managed to again assemble an overly-complex construction that doesn't mean what he wanted it to mean... We've already covered it briefly, but let me give you another option that would've worked:

"Shall we trust our persuasion to one who can or will not parse the truth when so clearly it is laid before her?"

As noted, this needed to be 'can not or will not' if you want to preserve the construction you have. HOWEVER! There's another construction which, in fact, I was surprised you didn't opt for, given that it better serves your 'maximum syntactical complexity' fetish:

"to one who neither can nor will parse"

See? You have to negate the whole thing or you have to negate both actions individually.

Poor Binky. Loves to use lots of words, doesn't actually know how.

So, here's the first rule of literary rules: You need to know the rules before you can break the rules without just being confusing as heck.

That's not 'framing', that's writing. It's also propaganda 101.
Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#84 - 2016-09-28 19:09:35 UTC
Ben Booley wrote:
Perhaps then you should lay blame at the feet of Pend Insurance, who financed 99.9% of the operation.


Does Pend pay for your clone contracts?
Cheradenine-Zakalwe Amtiskaw
The Kronos Ritual
#85 - 2016-09-28 19:17:34 UTC
This isn't propaganda.

It's provocation.

In that regard you have it quite twisted.

Your outburst was a delight, truly a metric by which future sperge shall be measured.
Ben Booley
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#86 - 2016-09-28 19:19:06 UTC
Arrendis wrote:
Ben Booley wrote:
Perhaps then you should lay blame at the feet of Pend Insurance, who financed 99.9% of the operation.


Does Pend pay for your clone contracts?


Our empty clones without implants? That is a free service provided to all.

Pend kindly paid out insurance on all ships used in the operation, which was the main cost. The IEDs inside the freighters, and the modules fit to the scorpion to trigger them, were a marginal incidental cost, easily lost in the daily overhead of running an alliance.
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#87 - 2016-09-28 19:25:16 UTC
Cheradenine-Zakalwe Amtiskaw wrote:
This isn't propaganda.

It's provocation.

In that regard you have it quite twisted.

Your outburst was a delight, truly a metric by which future sperge shall be measured.


In other words, you're just trying to make us mad.

Soooooo....

Our best option if we want to annoy you in turn is to blow a raspberry and ignore you.

Noted, I guess?
Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#88 - 2016-09-28 19:27:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Arrendis
Cheradenine-Zakalwe Amtiskaw wrote:
This isn't propaganda.

It's provocation.

In that regard you have it quite twisted.

Your outburst was a delight, truly a metric by which future sperge shall be measured.


Poor little Binky. Provocation is propaganda. You're trying to impact others. And you really, really don't get it. Such a pity.

Edit: Oh, and Binky, you should remember: As you correctly identified earlier, I'm a pedant. What you think of as an 'outburst', I think of as 'fun'. You should check Aria's advise to Ronin. It holds in this case, too. So please, feel free to keep going, I promise to keep pissing on you.
Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#89 - 2016-09-28 19:28:25 UTC
Ben Booley wrote:
Our empty clones without implants? That is a free service provided to all.


Your pilot's license is a free service provided to all? I'll let the Jita market know they should drop the prices on PLEX, then.
William Danneskjold
#90 - 2016-09-28 19:28:34 UTC
Cheradenine-Zakalwe Amtiskaw wrote:
This isn't propaganda.

It's provocation.

In that regard you have it quite twisted.

Your outburst was a delight, truly a metric by which future sperge shall be measured.


Have you ever been so far as to make sure that nobody went so far as to into? You should consider thinking about taking action so that actions can never be so far read into as to make things. Its really a vast undertaking that if you try so hard as to figure out, may incite a pain that generally sees into the thing that nobody went so far as into

War is murder. It always has been, always will be. Murder in the name of God. Freedom. Your country. Whatever it is, it is murder. I am already against the next set of wars.

Ben Booley
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#91 - 2016-09-28 19:31:48 UTC
Arrendis wrote:
Ben Booley wrote:
Our empty clones without implants? That is a free service provided to all.


Your pilot's license is a free service provided to all? I'll let the Jita market know they should drop the prices on PLEX, then.



Ahh, so you're moving your goalposts around. Cute. Hope they're light.

If you'd like to look into the cost of the pilots license rather than the clone contract, we spent roughly two hours of time for three pilots.

At a current rate of 1.124bn ISK for 720 hours of piloting, this cost us about 9.3666 million ISK. Not even a blip.
Veikitamo Gesakaarin
Black Advent
#92 - 2016-09-28 19:32:04 UTC
I admit to being tempted to commission a manga of this event but I am unsure if anyone in Rote is bishounen enough to move copy in the schoolgirl demographic so critical in today's market.

Kurilaivonen|Concern

Cheradenine-Zakalwe Amtiskaw
The Kronos Ritual
#93 - 2016-09-28 19:33:22 UTC
Aria Jenneth wrote:
Cheradenine-Zakalwe Amtiskaw wrote:
This isn't propaganda.

It's provocation.

In that regard you have it quite twisted.

Your outburst was a delight, truly a metric by which future sperge shall be measured.


In other words, you're just trying to make us mad.

Soooooo....

Our best option if we want to annoy you in turn is to blow a raspberry and ignore you.

Noted, I guess?


Probably
Jaret Victorian
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#94 - 2016-09-28 19:33:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Jaret Victorian
Did this incident wuth Purity extremists not teach you anything?

- A lawsuit from Pend. Don't think they take kindly to their reputation being blackened by bad press.
- Termination of your cloning contracts. You are still on CONCORD leash.
- Outlawing of your organisations. Saw Serpentis? Yeah. Turn on the media machine, place a price tag, promise rewards and you are done.

I think you are not quite aware that you can be undone in mere moments. This is the reality. You have caused enough headache to good people in your organisation and I really don't understand why you are still its employees.
Ben Booley
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#95 - 2016-09-28 19:36:12 UTC
Jaret Victorian wrote:
Did this incident wuth Purity extremists not teach you anything?

- A lawsuit from Pend. Don't think they take kindly to their repotation being blackened by bad press.
- Termination of your cloning contracts. You are still on CONCORD leash.
- Outlawing of your organisations. Saw Serpentis? Yeah. Turn on the media machine, place a price tag, promise rewards and you are done.

I think you are not quite aware that you can be undone in mere moments. This is the reality. You have caused enough headache to good people in your organisation and I really don't understand why you are still its employees.



Oh but you don't understand. I am not its employee. I am Rote Kapelle.
Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#96 - 2016-09-28 19:36:16 UTC
Ben Booley wrote:
Arrendis wrote:
Ben Booley wrote:
Our empty clones without implants? That is a free service provided to all.


Your pilot's license is a free service provided to all? I'll let the Jita market know they should drop the prices on PLEX, then.



Ahh, so you're moving your goalposts around. Cute. Hope they're light.

If you'd like to look into the cost of the pilots license rather than the clone contract, we spent roughly two hours of time for three pilots.

At a current rate of 1.124bn ISK for 720 hours of piloting, this cost us about 9.3666 million ISK. Not even a blip.


I'm not moving the goalposts at all. I said money's fungible and you've benefited from association with Rote and Morwen. You're the one who took that to mean the ships.

When I said your clone contracts, I wasn't speaking of that clone. I was speaking of the fact that when you die, you wake up—that you have a clone, at all. That's a function of your pilot's license. How much is waking up worth?

That doesn't even factor into account that you also needed to have that license long enough to learn to pilot freighters, and needed to afford the skillsofts for them, including the capital ship skillsoft.

So keep trying to claim the cost involved was just the materiel. Because it wasn't, and I never limited my focus to that very, very minor part of all this.
Cheradenine-Zakalwe Amtiskaw
The Kronos Ritual
#97 - 2016-09-28 19:36:28 UTC
Arrendis wrote:
Cheradenine-Zakalwe Amtiskaw wrote:
This isn't propaganda.

It's provocation.

In that regard you have it quite twisted.

Your outburst was a delight, truly a metric by which future sperge shall be measured.


Poor little Binky. Provocation is propaganda. You're trying to impact others. And you really, really don't get it. Such a pity.

Edit: Oh, and Binky, you should remember: As you correctly identified earlier, I'm a pedant. What you think of as an 'outburst', I think of as 'fun'. You should check Aria's advise to Ronin. It holds in this case, too. So please, feel free to keep going, I promise to keep pissing on you.


This why we will forever talk past each other.

You are comfortable with what you are, and I am comfortable seeing you in the light of truth which glamour hides for those less accustomed to the raw and ugly products of empire.
Cheradenine-Zakalwe Amtiskaw
The Kronos Ritual
#98 - 2016-09-28 19:38:04 UTC
William Danneskjold wrote:
Cheradenine-Zakalwe Amtiskaw wrote:
This isn't propaganda.

It's provocation.

In that regard you have it quite twisted.

Your outburst was a delight, truly a metric by which future sperge shall be measured.


Have you ever been so far as to make sure that nobody went so far as to into? You should consider thinking about taking action so that actions can never be so far read into as to make things. Its really a vast undertaking that if you try so hard as to figure out, may incite a pain that generally sees into the thing that nobody went so far as into


I want to believe.
Jaret Victorian
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#99 - 2016-09-28 19:40:22 UTC
Ben Booley wrote:

Oh but you don't understand. I am not its employee. I am Rote Kapelle.

Sweet. Other things still apply.
Ben Booley
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#100 - 2016-09-28 19:42:38 UTC
Arrendis wrote:
Ben Booley wrote:
Arrendis wrote:
Ben Booley wrote:
Our empty clones without implants? That is a free service provided to all.


Your pilot's license is a free service provided to all? I'll let the Jita market know they should drop the prices on PLEX, then.



Ahh, so you're moving your goalposts around. Cute. Hope they're light.

If you'd like to look into the cost of the pilots license rather than the clone contract, we spent roughly two hours of time for three pilots.

At a current rate of 1.124bn ISK for 720 hours of piloting, this cost us about 9.3666 million ISK. Not even a blip.


I'm not moving the goalposts at all. I said money's fungible and you've benefited from association with Rote and Morwen. You're the one who took that to mean the ships.

When I said your clone contracts, I wasn't speaking of that clone. I was speaking of the fact that when you die, you wake up—that you have a clone, at all. That's a function of your pilot's license. How much is waking up worth?

That doesn't even factor into account that you also needed to have that license long enough to learn to pilot freighters, and needed to afford the skillsofts for them, including the capital ship skillsoft.

So keep trying to claim the cost involved was just the materiel. Because it wasn't, and I never limited my focus to that very, very minor part of all this.


That might be true, if my entire existence was purely for that one attack, and vanished immediately after. We do not maintain pilots licenses for just that one attack. We did not learn to pilot freighters just for that one attack. This attack was merely a part of our story, and when calculating the cost you can only look at things that were used up by it, not things that existed before it, will exist after it, and remained unaffected by doing it.