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Testing of Fitting Simulation

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CCP karkur
C C P
C C P Alliance
#1 - 2016-09-26 15:15:39 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP karkur
Hey spacefriends

Today I'm here to talk to you about our upcoming update to the fitting window, where it's at and, what our plans are going forward.

As a refresher, this update (which began its life with the working title of Ghostfitting), adds an ingame fitting simulator that will allow you try out fits without owning the items or having the skills for them. You'll be able to see how the stats change as you activate and overheat your weapons, change charges, and add or remove rigs. You'll be able find out before you buy all the modules that you are actually 1% short on CPU.

You first heard us talk about and show you Fitting Simulation at last year's Fanfest, but at that point it was very much a side project that was nowhere to be found on any roadmap yet. Your reactions were super encouraging and confirmed to us that it was worth pursuing and we added it to our official plans. However, as sometimes happens with many project of varying degrees of priorities, Fitting Simulation sadly had to be sidelined for a while, as we focused on delivering you features such as Multibuy, Multifit and Citadel. With Citadel out the door and fallout being dealt with, work on Fitting Simulation picked up again and we are now at the point where we'd like to invite you to join us on Singularity to help us out with testing it! Big smile

The feature has been developed in a way that allows us to offer you guys to opt in to use it as well as disable the feature completely if needed, and in fact a rough version of it has been on TQ for months.
We intend to turn on the Fitting Simulation on Singularity today to get good test coverage, but we don't have firm plans yet on when it will be released.
There are so many different modules and moving parts that expect there to be things here and there that don't work quite as intended, and we would really appreciate your help finding them and giving us general feedback.
We will keep close eye on your feedback and bug reports, and later make decision on when to release the feature on TQ. With that in mind, lets take you through how the feature works.

We have an entirely new Fitting window, which in the future should replace the old one, and the Simulation functionality is integrated into that window. The new one is pretty much like the old one, with a few additions.

The following changes have been made to the Fitting window:
  • alpha strike has been added to the damage section
  • damage section shows dps both with and without reloading
  • drone panel added, it shows min/max drone range, bandwidth, control range and drone dps
  • drone dps now shows either the dps of the deployed drones, or the top 5 drones drone bay
  • only 1 dps number is now displayed in the “Offense” panel, but a break down of the dps (turrets, launchers, drones, smartbombs) can be seen in the tooltip.
  • align time has been added to the navigation section
  • booster/repair amounts now take into account whether ancillary boosters/repairers are charged or not
  • capacitor simulation takes into account charges in capacitor boosters and their reload times (as before it's only an estimation)
  • yellow stats preview has been removed and instead accurate preview numbers can be seen in Simulation mode.
  • saving fitting will include the charges in the modules (also applies to old window)
  • group all button
  • estimated price of ship & equipment + buy all button
  • ehp is calculated assuming omnidamage, rather than showing the ehp for the damage type you are weakest to


I wrote a long section on the Simulation mode itself and its features, but on second thought I think it's better to just let you try it and figure it out. I hope it's intuitive and easy enough to grasp and use that long explanations are not needed, but if there's anything that you don't get or wasn't clear, please let us know so we can address it!

To activate the the updated fitting window, open the ESC window, go to the “General Settings” tab and check the “Try new fitting window” checkbox.
After doing that, you will have a new Beta Fitting Window under the E menu, and can drag it to the Neocom like any other button.
For now, by opting into using the updated fitting window, you can use both fitting windows, but this will not always be the case.
Edit: The new fitting window is now on by default on Singularity.

We do realize this tool does not offer all the options some of the awesome 3rd party tools do, and that’s very much by design. There are great 3rd party tools out there that do all sorts of crazy calculations for you, but in the ingame fitting window, we want to stick to the basics and lower the barrier to engaging with the fitting meta game without overwhelming people with too many options.

Please note that it's still work in progress and some of the UI elements need more polish, but please let us know what you think (and keep the feedback to this thread)... what works well, what doesn't work well for your use cases or anything else you want to share with usBig smile

Known issues:
  • loading simulated ships (especially with many drones) takes a bit longer than it needs to
  • Turning on the ‘resource’ filter takes a long time the first time for each ship. It’s a lot of processing, but will be made faster soon
  • Picking drones when there are many drones in bay is not ideal, will be addressed soon and some changes made to the drone panel
  • When the user backs out of the prompt warning that your current simulated fit will be lost, the simulated ship is stripped of its modules
  • Some UI elements are missing proper tooltips
  • Fighters cannot be simulated yet
  • The scene in center is temporary and our art guys are working on improving it



Bugreports:

When submitting bugreports, please submit them from within the client (press F12 to access it) and please include screenshots and if...

CCP karkur | Programmer | Team Five 0 | @CCP_karkur

CCP karkur
C C P
C C P Alliance
#2 - 2016-09-26 15:15:54 UTC
reserved for stuffs Big smile

CCP karkur | Programmer | Team Five 0 | @CCP_karkur

CCP Lebowski
C C P
C C P Alliance
#3 - 2016-09-26 15:22:53 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Lebowski
Edit: The new fitting window is now live on Singularity!

CCP Lebowski | EVE Quality Assurance | Team Five-0

@CCP_Lebowski

Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#4 - 2016-09-26 15:43:54 UTC
\o/

Now I can **** fit ships, without spending my isk!

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter

Yadaryon Vondawn
Probe Patrol
#5 - 2016-09-26 15:58:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Yadaryon Vondawn
Nice feature :D

Some things I noticed:

  • When I expand drones another stat window folds itself
  • Maybe it is an idea to round the alpha strike as it now, at first sight, appears as a very high number
  • Alpha strike description reads: _description of alpha strike_
  • The ship is counted twice in the price
  • The effects of overheating a tracking module can't be seen on the charge directly, can we get the trackingspeed/weapon accuracy score be showed on the mouseover of the charge?
  • EDIT: more
  • Switching between on the slot, in the slot taking CPU/PW, active and overheated takes quite a bit of clicks. Is it possible to get a radial menu upon holding a module where we can set the state?
  • I can see why links are not there but I do wonder why we cannot apply boosters. Could this be added?
  • Align time has WIP description and no icon


Really nice stuff!
Lady Aesir
Ghost Recon Inc
#6 - 2016-09-26 18:06:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Lady Aesir
How are you supposed to add drones/fighters to a ghost fitting when the fighter bay does not open? or the cargo bay either

Would be nice to have a dropdown below the ship visuals that displays the fighter/drone bay contents.
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#7 - 2016-09-26 18:23:13 UTC
haven't found a way to display how much a ship can tank effectively. Tank in HP is of limited use what you usually want to know is the dps tank, not HP repaired.

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value

NoobMan
Hard Knocks Inc.
Hard Knocks Citizens
#8 - 2016-09-26 18:33:20 UTC
CCP Karkur's innovation to the game are incredible. Multifit and now this.

Super stoked!

Operations Director of Hard K(n)ocks Inc.

KIller Wabbit
MEME Thoughts
#9 - 2016-09-26 18:50:17 UTC
CCP proving your dream can become the immersion!
CCP karkur
C C P
C C P Alliance
#10 - 2016-09-26 19:14:13 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP karkur
Lady Aesir wrote:
How are you supposed to add drones/fighters to a ghost fitting when the fighter bay does not open? or the cargo bay either

Would be nice to have a dropdown below the ship visuals that displays the fighter/drone bay contents.
As stated in the post, fighters cannot be ghostfitted yet... but drones you can add either by dropping them on the drone part of the fitting window like normally (shift dragging will allow you to add multiple) or by double clicking the drone in the browser. We are not entirely happy with the drone/cargo icons and that it's hard to see you can interact with them, and will be looking into it Smile

Once you have added something to the drone/cargo bay, you can click on the drone/cargo area in the fitting window to get a drop down showing the contents of the bays

CCP karkur | Programmer | Team Five 0 | @CCP_karkur

Nuadi
Pathway to the Next
Last Calamity
#11 - 2016-09-26 19:30:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Nuadi
Quote:
ehp is calculated assuming omnidamage, rather than showing the ehp for the damage type you are weakest to


While I realize your design is aimed at lowering the bar, this tool lacks a connection with Mission or Ratting players. It would be very benificial to have damage profiles for common enemies (e.g. Angel Cartel, Serpentis, etc.) so that players building mission fits will have a better idea of their capabilities.

Edit to add: You could leverage such a selection (maybe a menu off to the right of resistances?) to include what ever profile matches the current in-game event going on. For example, right now include the Purity of Throne damage profile as a temporary selection to encourage fit crafting to run sites.

Overall, this is a very nice implementation. I suggest


  • Add a plane for the grid so that it is visible from below the ship as well, since the camera defaults to a upward angle
  • In the module tooltip, indicate what the next click will do. E.g. "Active Module. Click to Overheat"
  • The charges display is inconsistent with the Modules display. I suggest listing the current module types that are fit into the charges list, and then upon expansion list the charges that fit into that module. Having "tabs" at the top is a break in navigation paradigms that's not immediately intuitive
Cade Windstalker
#12 - 2016-09-26 19:46:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Cade Windstalker
Nuadi wrote:
Quote:
ehp is calculated assuming omnidamage, rather than showing the ehp for the damage type you are weakest to


While I realize your design is aimed at lowering the bar, this tool lacks a connection with Mission or Ratting players. It would be very benificial to have damage profiles for common enemies (e.g. Angel Cartel, Serpentis, etc.) so that players building mission fits will have a better idea of their capabilities.


I think rather than giving damage profiles, which can actually vary pretty significantly based on what exactly is shooting you, it would be more beneficial to just allow the player to set damage ratios with sliders or some other way.

For example while Angel Cartel rats primarily deal Explosive and Kinetic damage the ratios of these values change based on what's shooting you, someone who is speed tanked may be more concerned about the primarily explosive missiles, and there is at least one mission with significant EM damage from an Angel rat.

Similarly the ratios of Thermal and Kinetic damage change significantly for Serpentis rats depending on if you're fighting Frigates or Battleships.

The damage profiles that are widely publicized are player-made estimates or used databases like Chruker to simply average all rats, which gives a profile for the faction but may be less applicable to a given mission.
Captain Campion
Campion Corp.
#13 - 2016-09-26 20:09:53 UTC
Literally been waiting 10 yrs for this. Looks great :)
Nuadi
Pathway to the Next
Last Calamity
#14 - 2016-09-26 20:21:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Nuadi
Cade Windstalker wrote:
Nuadi wrote:
Quote:
ehp is calculated assuming omnidamage, rather than showing the ehp for the damage type you are weakest to


While I realize your design is aimed at lowering the bar, this tool lacks a connection with Mission or Ratting players. It would be very benificial to have damage profiles for common enemies (e.g. Angel Cartel, Serpentis, etc.) so that players building mission fits will have a better idea of their capabilities.


I think rather than giving damage profiles, which can actually vary pretty significantly based on what exactly is shooting you, it would be more beneficial to just allow the player to set damage ratios with sliders or some other way.

For example while Angel Cartel rats primarily deal Explosive and Kinetic damage the ratios of these values change based on what's shooting you, someone who is speed tanked may be more concerned about the primarily explosive missiles, and there is at least one mission with significant EM damage from an Angel rat.

Similarly the ratios of Thermal and Kinetic damage change significantly for Serpentis rats depending on if you're fighting Frigates or Battleships.

The damage profiles that are widely publicized are player-made estimates or used databases like Chruker to simply average all rats, which gives a profile for the faction but may be less applicable to a given mission.


While I agree that damage varies, the idea would be to simply give an average or at the very least drop damage types that won't be encountered which would improve the assessment of the fit.

The fidelity you're talking about is best left to third-party devs where we can get as granular as we like with the damage types, targets, etc. This tool, being in-game and more widely applicable, would be better suited with a broad average profile for a given faction.
Phaezen Orti
WiNGSPAN Delivery Services
WiNGSPAN Delivery Network
#15 - 2016-09-26 20:31:18 UTC
Would be nice to be able to right click on a module and open tab where you can see the variants of the module and swap them with the currently fit module. Would make it easier to compare the effect on you ship's stats
Captain Campion
Campion Corp.
#16 - 2016-09-26 20:32:51 UTC
Idea: could we select damage profiles, pre-populated with various rat types - or even the current mission?
Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
#17 - 2016-09-26 21:05:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Nana Skalski
Can we have customzable damage profile where someone can put percent of type of damage somewhere? Maybe an icon or button with text "damage profile" on it that when clicked will give you a window where you input numbers.
TheSmokingHertog
Julia's Interstellar Trade Emperium
#18 - 2016-09-26 21:28:11 UTC
NoobMan wrote:
CCP Karkur's innovation to the game are incredible. Multifit and now this.

Super stoked!


dont forget multisell/buy!

"Dogma is kind of like quantum physics, observing the dogma state will change it." ~ CCP Prism X

"Schrödinger's Missile. I dig it." ~ Makari Aeron

-= "Brain in a Box on Singularity" - April 2015 =-

Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#19 - 2016-09-26 22:26:22 UTC
\o/ thanks. Great tofu ally be able to test this and have it in game on TQ soon.

Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."

Borat Guereen
ARRAKIS Ltd.
#20 - 2016-09-26 22:36:32 UTC
Looking forward to this feature!

Candidate for CSM XII

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