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Removal of unscannable ships a mistake? Bring em back!
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Lyrrashae
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
#41 - 2012-01-01 19:08:45 UTC
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
I have a counterproposal:

Let's create a sticky thread in which the OP maintains a list of bad ideas. Along with that thread, a new forum rule is added: Before making suggestions on changes to Eve, one must consult that list and see if their idea is already on it. If they post the idea anyway, they get a one-week gag on the forums so that their thread can die in peace.



/Supported.

Looooool, best idea I've seen yet!

Ni.
Lyrrashae
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
#42 - 2012-01-01 19:09:36 UTC
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
Othran wrote:
Frankly they ought to remove command bonuses from T3 ships altogether.

End of argument then.

Edited to make it clearer....

Or just limit boosting to the local grid.


^^And this, too.

Ni.
Lili Lu
#43 - 2012-01-01 21:47:29 UTC
FloppieTheBanjoClown for CSM chairman or president or whatever the hell it is.P
Surge Roth
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#44 - 2012-01-01 23:07:25 UTC
Zevina wrote:
The Incarna patch felt like a disaster for lots of reasons, but in the wake of WiS, NeX store and the fearless memo one thing went by almost unnoticed:

The removal of unscannable ships

Before Incarna as a casual solo player you had a chance to travel to low/null sec and do stuff there with a certain chance not to get blown up by the next best roaming gang and PvP fitted ship. You had to make your ship unscannable.

Making your ship unscannable was hard. You had so sacrifice A LOT of tank or damage and therefore flying an unscannable ship was harder than say a normal ratting or mission ship. But as a good pilot with expansive equipment you could manage.

It was also thrilling for people living in low/null sec looking out for an expansive killmail every now and then. Unscannable ships werent immortal, just a little harder to get. You needed to be smart. Scan people out with directional scans, set traps at gates or stations or wait for them in a certain belt.
And you needed to maximize the scanning ability of your character and ship to absolute perfection for an occasional very rewarding kill.

Thats all part of the past now and one more VERY INTERESTING feature of the sandbox is gone.

Therefore I petition to bring back unscannable ships in the way it was before Incarna.

Whos with me?


I made my loki unscannable and got the full halo implant set to help with that. Now my loki more or less sits at a station because anything it can do I have other ships that do it better, and my halo set collects dust in a jump clone.
Surge Roth
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#45 - 2012-01-01 23:18:10 UTC
Derath Ellecon wrote:
Skorpynekomimi wrote:
What was once unscannable is now NEARLY unscannable. You need to have perfect skills, a bonused ship, and expensive implants.
It's not like any tom, ****, or goonie can scan you down in a T1 frigate with 'get me the **** out this wormhole' skills and a blank clone.



This.

It still seems for all intents to be basically unscannable. And even if that perfect scanner in a bonused ship does come along, they still probably can't get a perfect hit on one try, so proper use of dscan should warn you in time.

Seems fair.


D-scan can't tell you if they're some scrub who wont give up or if they have all the perquisites to scan you down. And the only way of finding out is staying on that grid. So no, it ain't fair. Unscannable ships were more or less fair because of the sacrifice needed to achieve it. Nevermind the fact that only a few select ships were capable of doing it. If people wanna talk about fair how about making it possible to enter different systems without being forced to, for a lack of better words, use a load screen choke point with no way of telling what's on the other side. Nevermind that fact map statistics are unreliable at best to predict what's on the other side of that instance.
Bibosikus
Air
#46 - 2012-01-03 00:12:09 UTC
Surge Roth wrote:
.. Unscannable ships were more or less fair because of the sacrifice needed to achieve it...


Let me see..

Unscannable

Covert Cloaked

Align time of a frigate

Warps straight through bubbles

Runs 3-4 ganglinks

Please clarify exactly where unscannable T3's made any sacrifice whatsoever.

Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.
Yahrr
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#47 - 2012-01-03 21:22:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Yahrr
Zevina wrote:
...unscannable ships...

...as a good pilot with expansive equipment you could manage.


Now your ship is expansive, it only needs a few holes blastered into its hull. Lol
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#48 - 2012-01-03 23:25:42 UTC
Surge Roth wrote:
Derath Ellecon wrote:
Skorpynekomimi wrote:
What was once unscannable is now NEARLY unscannable. You need to have perfect skills, a bonused ship, and expensive implants.
It's not like any tom, ****, or goonie can scan you down in a T1 frigate with 'get me the **** out this wormhole' skills and a blank clone.



This.

It still seems for all intents to be basically unscannable. And even if that perfect scanner in a bonused ship does come along, they still probably can't get a perfect hit on one try, so proper use of dscan should warn you in time.

Seems fair.


D-scan can't tell you if they're some scrub who wont give up or if they have all the perquisites to scan you down. And the only way of finding out is staying on that grid. So no, it ain't fair. Unscannable ships were more or less fair because of the sacrifice needed to achieve it. Nevermind the fact that only a few select ships were capable of doing it. If people wanna talk about fair how about making it possible to enter different systems without being forced to, for a lack of better words, use a load screen choke point with no way of telling what's on the other side. Nevermind that fact map statistics are unreliable at best to predict what's on the other side of that instance.




So there has been alot of pissing about the removal of unscannable ships. So here's a question. Is there anyone here, who has a previously unscannable ship that has actually gotten scanned down successfully?
Zevina
Atomic Core Industries and Science
#49 - 2012-01-17 09:40:03 UTC
I agree fleet boosters are a special issue with unscannable ships, but I also cannot see why it is a problem to have them. In 0.0 warfare defending alliances NOW have an unfair advantage, because they can park their fleet boosters safe and sound in a death star bubble, whereas the attacking faction has its fleet boosters exposed in space.

When it comes to PvE ships Im sure noone can argue that it takes A LOT of sacrifice dmg- and tankwise to become unscannable.

Months back Ive been doing missions in a Tengu in Venal, it was an expansive fit and I was quite proud because I was able to create it. One day I jumped through a gate and an Interceptor got me, it was a skilled pilot with a couple of friends. The whole thing was over within a few seconds.

The thing is, when you create an unscannable ship its quite an effort to make it playable and worthwhile. You cant fly it like any other ship, smooth and easy, you need skill. To kill an unscannable ship also takes some effort, you cant just sit with you BC gang in front of a gate or send your drones out, you need a good tackler and a pilot with skill to make the catch.

For me that makes the game more interesting, to have something to think about and work for. And its a sad thing that so many people out there cant accept a challenge and rather hide in their average dull blobs.
Soldarius
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#50 - 2012-01-17 10:23:35 UTC
Zevina wrote:
...expansive...


You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
Zevina
Atomic Core Industries and Science
#51 - 2012-01-17 10:27:58 UTC
Soldarius wrote:
Zevina wrote:
...expansive...


You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.


Then lets just hope everybody else can guess what I think it means. ^^
Im not a native speaker, so minor spelling mistakes might occur. But thats quite beside the point.
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#52 - 2012-01-17 11:39:58 UTC
Soldarius wrote:
Zevina wrote:
...expansive...


You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

get more to english and you will understand what other people say. i promise Big smile

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Cyzlaki
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#53 - 2012-01-17 12:09:15 UTC
Still unscannable bro. Stop crying
Cyniac
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#54 - 2012-01-17 13:33:42 UTC
Zevina wrote:
Thats all part of the past now and one more VERY INTERESTING feature of the sandbox is gone.



Except it isn't.

In practice the only real thing which has increased is your fear level - you now know that out there, somewhere, there are highly skilled and specialised pilots who might be able to track you down.

Which feature is gone from the sandbox?

The ability to run low and nullsec virtually undetected? - Nope still there.

The ability to operate effectively in hostile territory? - Nope still there.

The ability to laugh in the face of scanners trying to catch pin you down for hours? - Nope, still there (For extra fun make sure you warp around when you see the probes closing in. That makes them start over and they go soooooo mad!)

Right now if you are using a hard to scan ship you are virtually uncatchable unless:

1) You are facing a very very skilled scanner (both in terms of in game skills, implants and actual scanning ability) AND
2) You are careless

That's it, nothing lost, a lot gained. Lowsec and null are not supposed to be safe. Ever. (well neither is highsec, but in different ways)
Duchess Starbuckington
Doomheim
#55 - 2012-01-17 14:02:25 UTC
Quote:
For me that makes the game more interesting, to have something to think about and work for. And its a sad thing that so many people out there cant accept a challenge and rather hide in their average dull blobs.

Dear god, you're still crying about this?
Dzajic
#56 - 2012-01-17 14:25:34 UTC
Leave it as it is. Dynamite fisher (gate camper) whines about lack of pray are most amusing.
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#57 - 2012-01-17 15:26:05 UTC
Cyniac wrote:

Right now if you are using a hard to scan ship you are virtually uncatchable unless:

1) You are facing a very very skilled scanner (both in terms of in game skills, implants and actual scanning ability) AND
2) You are careless

That's it, nothing lost, a lot gained. Lowsec and null are not supposed to be safe. Ever. (well neither is highsec, but in different ways)


I'll ask again. Is there ANYONE here who flies a previously unscannable ship that has actuall gotten scanned down? Is there anyone who has tested this with an unscannable fit and a highly trained scan alt?

It seems to me lots of bitching about the "potential" of now getting scanned down. But I have yet to hear anyone actually getting caught as a result.
Jesus Rambo
Criterion.
Pandemic Legion
#58 - 2012-01-18 02:59:03 UTC
Maggeridon Thoraz wrote:
Bob Random wrote:
Nobody.

Fit a cloak.


if he does, you complain about afk cloakies


You do know the difference between AFK cloaking and unscannable tengu plexing/missions right?
Umega
Solis Mensa
#59 - 2012-01-18 03:57:28 UTC
As someone that used to explore/pie mission at will with old mechanic.. I rather be able to go after ppl that are doing the same. And this is EVE, others should be able to find my uncloaked ship.. whether I like the outcome or not. Only cloak should provide immunity, as you can't do **** when cloaked except watch.. working as intended.

FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
Othran wrote:
Frankly they ought to remove command bonuses from T3 ships altogether.

End of argument then.

Edited to make it clearer....

Or just limit boosting to the local grid.


^This. While I completely, 100% agree.. I think something needs to be done to slaves along with boost-on-grid-only. There only needs to be some pebbles dropped in the armor vs shield scale to balance it out, imo.. boost on grid + slaves working currently as is + those small pebble changes dropped in armor dish that I believe are coming soonTM.. is going to be like dropping a boulder on the armor side of the scale.

 Ume-Pro Studios
Cyniac
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#60 - 2012-01-19 10:16:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Cyniac
Derath Ellecon wrote:
I'll ask again. Is there ANYONE here who flies a previously unscannable ship that has actuall gotten scanned down? Is there anyone who has tested this with an unscannable fit and a highly trained scan alt?

It seems to me lots of bitching about the "potential" of now getting scanned down. But I have yet to hear anyone actually getting caught as a result.


It has been tested and you will be caught, under those very special conditions

However like you I don't know of any pilot who has been caught so far with this system, though with the myriad of little tweaks to scanning it's marginally safer to go down to low or null with a full set of implants and try to catch some of those near-unscannable ships.

But the fear factor has been significant - there are noticeably less pimped out ships running around in the space which I frequent. And that's a good thing for me, so keep quiet you!