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Dev Blog: Introducing Clone States & the Future of Access to EVE

First post First post First post
Author
Shaddn Arakh
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1061 - 2016-09-02 08:56:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Shaddn Arakh
No multiboxing for alphas. No hi-sec piracy, ganking or grieving for alphas (safe mode lock). Other than that I think this is a great step forward and I hope it brings new blood to Eve.

P.S. I think you got the names wrong. Alphas must be the cool paying players (as in alpha-males) and omegas must be the free players.

UPD. No skill points extraction for alphas of course! They can inject if they like but not extract to avoid skill point farming.
Toobo
Project Fruit House
#1062 - 2016-09-02 10:05:21 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Toobo wrote:
You know what all these Alpha toons are gonna call Omega toons?

Pay to win!

When all these Alpha toons see current players (Soon to be Omega pilots) flying and using things they can't on a free account, and stomping all over them everywhere, they will not think EVE is F2P game, they will see itnas Pay To Win game.

So ironically, EVE will become pay to win by allowing F2P lol.


So let me get this staright.....

CCP gives players a way to play an unlimited trial account for no RL money. But because years ago I decided to pay for a sub and train my characters I'm....cheating?

Of course, CCP has given these guys a way to catch up to me instantly, yes it means opening up one's wallet. Seems only fair given that I have spent quite a bit of RL money to get where I am, requiring a new player to "instantly" catch to cost RL money....my God what a crazy idea.

How about you grow up and learn how things work both in game and in RL?



Dude, I'm not talking from an existing player's POV, which I obviously am and will immediately become Omega when this goes live.

I'm talking from a new Alpha players' POV. For me, who's been playing the game for nearly a decade, it doesn't change what I can do.

I said what I said because I believe CCP is introducing Alpha account as a marketing tool, not for players like you and I, but total eve virgins.

For them, it will seem like P2W, and I'm not sure that is a good perception for these noobs to have, so I'm questioning the pros and cons of Alpha accounts as a marketing tool and from brand management point of view.

That's how things work RL (as you ask me to grow up in RL...) - free stuff can be good, but it's not always the best marketing/sales strategy. I've seen companies suffer negative long term consequences because they managed free events and promotions in a wrong way.

Sure, you can say CCP is a successful company and has a dedicated professionals working on marketing and sales strategies so they 'should know better than you, forum idiot'.

Guess what, I too work in a marketing/sales/business development as a professional. I'm not commenting on this as an EVE vet or whatever, I'm genuinely questioning whether these Alpha accounts will have good long term beneficial effect as a marketing tool.

Even companies in Fortune 50 sometimes make major marketing blunder. There are valid questions we can ask to CCP whether something they have in plans is a good idea or not.


Getting back to the topoc - as a player I really don't care. I already have my SP and I can fly all the ships and fits I want. And yes I've paid for my subs long enough that I'm happy that I have something these free players won't - so I'm not arguing against you.


But from Alpha players' perspective, would it offer them good experience to commit cash to the game over long term?

That is debatable.

Cheers Love! The cavalry's here!

Carniflex
StarHunt
Mordus Angels
#1063 - 2016-09-02 10:08:30 UTC
I would like to list what I believe would be reasonable restrictions on Alpha accounts and why I think so. This will be a fairly long post. But this is a change in EVE which importance is hard to unerestimate.

As it stands in the current proposal based on the devblog the currently planned limitations are following:

  • Alphas will have reduced skill trainig rate.
  • Alphas can only use specific set of skills at reduced max levels (while devblog claims Alhas can access "wide ranging, exciting EVE experience").
  • Alphas explicitly will not have access to cyno gens or cloaking mods.
  • No skill extraction while clone is in its Alpha state.
  • Trail account style login restrictions (devs are still considering this one)
  • IF it becomes an issue then set saefty yellow for Alphas, otherwise they would be coming initially with full access to all saefty settings.
  • Racial lock to avoid allowed skill list from getting "too long" but instead there should be depth in it. Also no pirate faction ships (but faction variants accessible in the current state).
  • Ship size restriction up to cruisers - to give Alphas meaningful impact on almost every activity and envirvement without causing any problems in the ecosystem.

The reasoning for these is given in the devblog to a large degree. I do agree with some of these restrictions as clearly needed, however, I have also disagreement with some as in my view these do not allow Alphas to fully experience or have a meaningful imact in EVE in a significant enough number of scenarios fitting for the noted hull classes. Two of these - the racial restriction and very limited skillset for the hulls under consideration I have already discussed in some of my previous posts in this thread.

Let me list what would be in my opinion reasonable list of limitations and why I think these would be better than what is proposed currently. I will first just list the limitations and elaborate after the enumerated list.


  1. Alphas will have reduced skill trainig rate. Reduced resource collection rate.
  2. Alphas have a reduced list of skills (but no max level cap for the allowed skills related to ship to ship combat). Industry related skills capped at "reasonable", relatively low levels. NO Racsial restriction.
  3. Any skill in Alphas allowed skill list can not be extracted at all in whatever state the clone is. No skill extraction in alpha state.
  4. Not able to submit any changes to the PI system in Alpha state (especially not starting another cycle or importing/exporting materials from PI colonies).
  5. Trial account style simultaneous login restriction on Alphas. Circumenventing the restriction bannable offence. However, allow up to two simultaenous Alpha accounts to be logged in.
  6. Saefty yellow in hi security space. No restrictions in low or null security space.
  7. Alpha clone list initially consisting only and only T1 frigates, however allowing also faction and pirate variants. Observe ~3 months, add destroyers if deemed nesseary. Observe ~3 months, add cruisers if deemed nesseary.
  8. Explicitly prevent use of Cynos, Cloaks, all E-War other than warp prevention (including e-war drones), Entosis modules. DO NOT allow Alphas to assign drones or set the drones on guard on another ship. Do NOT allow alphas to use FoF missiles. Basically anything that scales too well with minimial pilot interaction in PvP or PvE scenarios or is highly disruptive against substantially heavier fleet doctrines if used en-masse.


Now allow me to give a short reasoning why I believe these would be better than what is proposed currently. I'll have to post it as a separate post following this one because I am running into a character count limit per post.

Here, sanity... niiiice sanity, come to daddy... okay, that's a good sanity... THWONK! GOT the bastard.

Carniflex
StarHunt
Mordus Angels
#1064 - 2016-09-02 10:09:20 UTC
1. This is the same. In my opinion the exclusion of number of social skills that increase mission payouts and LP gains would already cover the reduced resource collection rate that is common in F2P games for non-paying customers. I would leave to Alphas only social and connections basic skills. I.e., no skills that increase LP or isk gaining rate from missions regardless of mission type. Reduced resource collection rate is considered perfectly normal in F2P games. In addition it might be reasonable to apply an additional NPC tax on Alphas on bounties, perhaps something in the range of up to 25%.

2. Now with this I have an axe to grind as it quite clear from my previous posts. I'll just state again that as proposed that is way too much pay to win and way too little free to play. As an example see comparison between currently proposed "Alpha" pvp Omen example fit and an "Omega" fit which the same just with T2 modules and proper skills. I do not see how could anyone fathom how would Alpha come out on top from that engagement. Link to EFT numbers side by side: http://www.overclock.net/g/i/2864021/created-with-gimp/sort/display_order/ The T2 fit is doing 20% more damage at 22 km with Scorch than the Alpha would be doing at 6 km with Imperial Multifreq! On top of being 230 m/s faster, longer cap life, better buffer and resists and noticeably better damage application from the few drones the ship has. Unless the T2 pilot is completely clueless he is going to win that engagement any time of the day which is the very definition of pay to win! The example is for one specific fit and case but as proposed by the devblog the same situation is presient throughout all the possible fits that Alpha could field. Either do it properly or do not do it at all. Going only half way will just leave everyone pretty bitter. And ofc some of the restrictions go directly against core philosophy of EVE in my opinion, like racial restrictions, for example. Now in idustry the restrictions are quite reasonable as it scales way too well as it is currently implemented to allow Alphas into that sandbox. Couple of Ventures half-afk minind do not worry me too much even if they have max skills - if they are serious about it the guy will grind out enough for a plex and upgrade to Omega for getting access those sweet sweet mining barges. But for production you just have to do few cliks every some weeks, depending on what you are doing and what amoutn of resources you have available. To be clear the issue is not the new guys, the issue is old and bitter omegas taking advantage of 20+ Alpha accounts for making stuff. Industry scales oh so much better with the number of accounts one can throw at it than pvp and that is a problem.

3. No extraction of Alpha skills - I think that should take care of the worry about how much SP the Alpha can have.

4. PI scales way too well with the number of accounts one can throw at it as all it takes is few cliks every few days and hauling once or twice a month. Some special attention should be directed so that it is not possible to abuse the Alphas for that. It is mind numbingly boring way to play anyway and I hate PI with passion but I do these mindless clicks every once in a while for isk/h! Last I looked the number was roughly 200 mil/h doing it casually (2d cycles, hauling twice a month) in null null. It is also way too trivial to script it even by a simple mouse script as you always have to ckick exactly in the same places for a given account and setup.

5. The full EVE experience starts with two accounts. Sometimes it is told as a joke but in my observation this is actually true. Give them these 2 accounts. Or if you must limit it to the one account.

6. Not giving Alphas T2 guns will not make it much harder for them to gank people. While ganking is legitemate way to play the game these involved should face the consuquences of low sec status. Last I looked biomassing negative security ganker alts was classed as exploit - let them at least upgrade to Omega if they want to get concorded. Plus it would be way too easy to abuse the system from the server stability standpoint by rolling crapload of Alphas and getting them all concorded, for example, outside Jita 4-4 or on some busy gate in the pipe. If you must then yea, red is liveable as well.

7. Now this is one of the main points for which I have been driving. I do believe that for a person to stick around long enough to be invested in the game he has to have at least possibility of being close enough competitive with a paying customer in F2P game. In my proposal the Alpha has already a number of clear disadvantages: (1) reduced skill training rate, (2) reduced resource accumulation, (3) inability to fit certain modules deemed too disruptive for Alpha access. There is no need to cripple the Alpha to the point he is not even theoretically competitive with the Omega with similar fit in similar situation. I DO want these of the new guys who can handle EVE to stick around, but for that to happen they should be around long enough to find a group for themselves and/or have a goal which is reachable before they commit to be the paying customer. That is why I would propose for them to have only frigates at first but give them possibility to fly these as good as any Omega can! Fully skilling for frigate is already pretty long process - especially if you take into account reduced skill training rate. So the incentives are there to upgrade to Omega all the time. At the same time the frigate specific content is well fleshed out in EVE both pvp and pve wise so the Alphas would, in essence, get the "full experience" in that niche. Sooner or later they would want a larger hammer and would upgrade. Or if all they want to do they would be the free players - and let them be. By getting good they would be still an important part of EVE and would make the experience greater for all the paying customers as well.

to be continiued ...

Here, sanity... niiiice sanity, come to daddy... okay, that's a good sanity... THWONK! GOT the bastard.

Carniflex
StarHunt
Mordus Angels
#1065 - 2016-09-02 10:10:07 UTC
... continiued


8. That list is pretty self explanatioary - I would just specifically emphasize that anything that scales well with minimal pilot interaction should be prevented for alphas, like expecially drone assigning and FoF missiles. While latter are outright useless in pvp they do work surprisingly well in PvE if you get the aggro (usually done with target painter or a civilian gun). Now I'm not entirely certain about e-war other than warp scram/dirsuptor. They are pretty legitimate modules in EVE and most alliances have some newbro doctrines with them. At the same time, however, they are very fustrating for the one in receiving end and are quite powerful force multipliers. I am tiling more in favor of not allowing them for Alphas but I would not be crying a river if these would end up still being allowed. Now cynos and cloaks, uhh, then I would be claiming the end of the world as it is if Alphas could use these.

Here, sanity... niiiice sanity, come to daddy... okay, that's a good sanity... THWONK! GOT the bastard.

NImbex Diprivan
Sweet Coockies and Friends
#1066 - 2016-09-02 10:21:54 UTC  |  Edited by: NImbex Diprivan
Toobo wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Toobo wrote:
You know what all these Alpha toons are gonna call Omega toons?

Pay to win!

When all these Alpha toons see current players (Soon to be Omega pilots) flying and using things they can't on a free account, and stomping all over them everywhere, they will not think EVE is F2P game, they will see itnas Pay To Win game.

So ironically, EVE will become pay to win by allowing F2P lol.


So let me get this staright.....

CCP gives players a way to play an unlimited trial account for no RL money. But because years ago I decided to pay for a sub and train my characters I'm....cheating?

Of course, CCP has given these guys a way to catch up to me instantly, yes it means opening up one's wallet. Seems only fair given that I have spent quite a bit of RL money to get where I am, requiring a new player to "instantly" catch to cost RL money....my God what a crazy idea.

How about you grow up and learn how things work both in game and in RL?



Dude, I'm not talking from an existing player's POV, which I obviously am and will immediately become Omega when this goes live.

I'm talking from a new Alpha players' POV. For me, who's been playing the game for nearly a decade, it doesn't change what I can do.

I said what I said because I believe CCP is introducing Alpha account as a marketing tool, not for players like you and I, but total eve virgins.

For them, it will seem like P2W, and I'm not sure that is a good perception for these noobs to have, so I'm questioning the pros and cons of Alpha accounts as a marketing tool and from brand management point of view.

That's how things work RL (as you ask me to grow up in RL...) - free stuff can be good, but it's not always the best marketing/sales strategy. I've seen companies suffer negative long term consequences because they managed free events and promotions in a wrong way.

Sure, you can say CCP is a successful company and has a dedicated professionals working on marketing and sales strategies so they 'should know better than you, forum idiot'.

Guess what, I too work in a marketing/sales/business development as a professional. I'm not commenting on this as an EVE vet or whatever, I'm genuinely questioning whether these Alpha accounts will have good long term beneficial effect as a marketing tool.

Even companies in Fortune 50 sometimes make major marketing blunder. There are valid questions we can ask to CCP whether something they have in plans is a good idea or not.


Getting back to the topoc - as a player I really don't care. I already have my SP and I can fly all the ships and fits I want. And yes I've paid for my subs long enough that I'm happy that I have something these free players won't - so I'm not arguing against you.


But from Alpha players' perspective, would it offer them good experience to commit cash to the game over long term?

That is debatable.


100% true.

And sooner or later a poor young Alpha will realize that he/she can become 150mil SP Omega... even tomorrow if needed… for a moderate amount of USD, since skill injectors are available, and PLEX can be converted to ISK…

OFC, we all know this possible in game today. But nobody was trying to convince us this was F2P game when we subscribed…

As a new user of a F2P (!) game I would be slightly disappointed with such a discovery. Slightly enough not to subscribe.
This is too much to pay to win...
Drizzella
Perkone
Caldari State
#1067 - 2016-09-02 10:23:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Drizzella
Heres my two cents on the subject in general:
There should also be a skill unlock tier system. What I mean is that the skills proposed is a great starting point for a new account. At the 5 million SP, they have those skills points listed unlocked. Now if someone subscribes or uses skill injectors/accelerators($$$), and they are able to increase their total SP to say like 20mil, It should unlock another sets of skills on an "alpha clone". This can be repeated at different levels of skill points. For example:
New player (5mil) -> 20mil -> 50 -> 80 - 100 -> etc.

You could also consider to introduce the unlocking of other racial ships at different SP tiers as well e.g 50mil ->80 - >120

This way it would entice new players to keep going ($$$) and entice returning players to keep playing and progressing($$$) while keeping a healthy playerbase. A good carrot at the end of the stick imho.
Carniflex
StarHunt
Mordus Angels
#1068 - 2016-09-02 10:34:49 UTC
Drizzella wrote:
Heres my two cents on the subject in general:
There should also be a skill unlock tier system. What I mean is that the skills proposed is a great starting point for a new account. At the 5 million sp, they have those skills points listed unlocked. Now if someone subscribes or uses skill injectors/accelerators($$$), and they are able to increase their total sp to say like 20mil, It should unlock another sets of skills on an "alpha clone". This can be repeated at different levels of skill points. For example:
New player (5mil) -> 20mil -> 50 -> 80 - 100 -> etc.

This way it would entice new players to keep going ($$$) and entice returning players to keep playing and progressing($$$) while keeping a healthy playerbase. A good carrot at the end of the stick imho.



I would argue that the core issue is not the total possible SP number but the level caps on the allowed skills. If the cap would be just, for example the same, 5 mil SP without the level caps I would not be screaming half as intently as I do currently. Ofc with just the total SP cap the issue would be the skill extractor abuse if nothing else is implemented.

I personally would put the cap much higher though. At minimum at ~10 mil SP, preferably somewhere around 20-ish. But much simpler would be just to make a good clear list of skills Alphas can have and just not put max cap on the levels in these. If a specific module or module group should be excluded from Alphas there is better way to do it than through capping the skills.

Here, sanity... niiiice sanity, come to daddy... okay, that's a good sanity... THWONK! GOT the bastard.

Velores Prokhozai
Sad Frog Space Fighters
#1069 - 2016-09-02 10:42:50 UTC
If you want them (CCP) to allow use any T2 cruisers (and fraction) with any T2 fits for alpha clones - then I personally will never subcscribe any more, as a majoriry of other playes, so expect tranquility to go offline in 3 month unable to pay electricity bills.

You can't make this game fair between Alpha&Omega. Give them motherships - "Oh look. omega has titan, and I can't have, its pay2win, ccp fix pliz"

This also will be unfair till you give them "sensor compensation 5" "signature analysis 5" "biology 5", you know all those "very important" skills)
Quriel Arjar
Doomheim
#1070 - 2016-09-02 10:53:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Quriel Arjar
This will backfire horribly, when people realize their accounts aren't "truly" F2P, like thought they would be, but simply trial accounts without time limitations. It will be even worse, if CCP puts "BUY NAO!" buttons on every single item, which Alphas won't be able to use. Imagine a reaction of a new player, who just went through the ship tree and saw all these cool, huge ships to only be greeted by an orange button reminding him to pay up or bugger off. If I were him, I wouldn't bother launching EVE ever again.

CCP, please, for the good of the game, don't redo interface to remind Alphas, that they are second class citizens every time they open their ship's inventory. No amount of "This is EVE" videos will ever fix that first impression of EVE looking like some cheap mobile game with cash shop ads taking every inch of screen.
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1071 - 2016-09-02 10:56:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Tipa Riot
After some thoughts, the only really important additional measure (besides voting and gift restrictions of course), which tackles most of the proposed abuse cases IMO is:

- enforce trial account rules, if an alpha account is logged in no other account is allowed. It's a banable offense.

If you allow more than one simultaneous account mixed with Alpha, every player is forced to multi-box. There would be no valid excuse anymore to ever again undock without a personal scout, prober, ecm ship, add. drone provider, tackler, dps fleet buddy. The force multiplier of a second login for free is just too strong.

It will still be a big game changer because you could then own an unlimited number of free and clean scam, scout, spy and sitter alts, but I hope this will not break too much.

I'm my own NPC alt.

Carniflex
StarHunt
Mordus Angels
#1072 - 2016-09-02 10:59:32 UTC
Velores Prokhozai wrote:
If you want them (CCP) to allow use any T2 cruisers (and fraction) with any T2 fits for alpha clones - then I personally will never subcscribe any more, as a majoriry of other playes, so expect tranquility to go offline in 3 month unable to pay electricity bills.

You can't make this game fair between Alpha&Omega. Give them motherships - "Oh look. omega has titan, and I can't have, its pay2win, ccp fix pliz"

This also will be unfair till you give them "sensor compensation 5" "signature analysis 5" "biology 5", you know all those "very important" skills)



No T2 ship hulls in my proposal, if the comment was aimed at me. But yeah - if a ship hull is allowed Alpha should be able to fly it as well as Omega does. Indeed including all these important support skills. Not like in the current proposal where even the basic fitting skills for CPU and Powergrid are capped at L4. In both official plan and in my proposal they were training slower than subscribed accounts anyway.

Might as well just allow them to fly just noobships with civilian modules then. Otherwise they might somehow manage to kill a paying customer, oh the horror!

Here, sanity... niiiice sanity, come to daddy... okay, that's a good sanity... THWONK! GOT the bastard.

Arkoth 24
Doomheim
#1073 - 2016-09-02 11:03:05 UTC
Quriel Arjar wrote:
This will backfire horribly, when people realize their accounts aren't "truly" F2P, like thought they would be, but simply trial accounts without time limitations. It will be even worse, if CCP puts "BUY NAO!" buttons on every single item, which Alphas won't be able to use. Imagine a reaction of a new player, who just went through the ship tree and saw all these cool, huge ships to only be greeted by an orange button reminding him to pay up or bugger off. If I were him, I wouldn't bother launching EVE ever again.

CCP, please, for the good of the game, don't redo interface to remind Alphas, that they are second class citizens every time they open their ship's inventory. No amount of "This is EVE" videos will ever fix that first impression of EVE looking like some cheap mobile game with cash shop ads taking every inch of screen.

Second this.
Bagatur I
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1074 - 2016-09-02 11:06:49 UTC
gonna add my 2c.
as CCP stated in the announcement, this is to let new players experience more of EVE without the doom of end of trial sub hanging over them. and I think this is a great idea! however, they need to make absolutely sure that this isnt abused by experienced players to simply get a ton of free alts.
so the most important thing is to limit the number of aplha alts logged in from 1 PC to 1. I would suggest though, that if a non-paying player can have 1 alpha account logged in, then so should a paying player, even if he has an omega character logged in already.
and no skills that allow offline ISK accumulation - no PI, manufacturing, etc.
Carniflex
StarHunt
Mordus Angels
#1075 - 2016-09-02 11:08:31 UTC
A comparison of mining platforms. Alpha, as proposed in the devblog (Amarr one specifically, as it was the first one in the list), Max skill character with the same mining frigate vs Procurer and Retriver.

http://www.overclock.net/g/i/2864056/mining-yields-in-eve-online-alpha-vs-omega-in-mining-frig-and-max-skill-mining-barges/sort/display_order/

Alpha yield in Venture: 377 m3/min
Omega yield in Venture: 511 m3/min
Omega yield in Procurer: 928 m3/min
Omega yield in Retriever: 1012 m3/min

No implants, links or mining drones. As one can see Omega even in T1 barge would be yielding about twice as much minerals per minute than a T1 mining frigate can with max skills. So incentive to upgrade would be always there even if Alphas could have max skills for the modules fitted on their Venture. Combine this with lifting on simultaneous logins limitation (if its implemented for Alphas). The approx 120 m3/min difference between max skilled Venture and currently proposed Alpha Venture is not something I would be considering particularly threatening to the EVE economy compared to the number of potential Alpha Ventures mining.

Here, sanity... niiiice sanity, come to daddy... okay, that's a good sanity... THWONK! GOT the bastard.

Velores Prokhozai
Sad Frog Space Fighters
#1076 - 2016-09-02 11:09:12 UTC
Carniflex wrote:

Might as well just allow them to fly just noobships with civilian modules then. Otherwise they might somehow manage to kill a paying customer, oh the horror!


Why I can't see all those World of Warcraft: Starter Edition 20 level players complaining that 80lvl paladins are better than them?
What we have now is a pure copy of that wow:se. It's not EVE meant to be played for free, it's EVE that you can TRY as long as you want.
Daylan Vokan
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#1077 - 2016-09-02 11:12:54 UTC
Toobo wrote:
Dude, I'm not talking from an existing player's POV, which I obviously am and will immediately become Omega when this goes live.

I'm talking from a new Alpha players' POV. For me, who's been playing the game for nearly a decade, it doesn't change what I can do.

I said what I said because I believe CCP is introducing Alpha account as a marketing tool, not for players like you and I, but total eve virgins.

For them, it will seem like P2W, and I'm not sure that is a good perception for these noobs to have, so I'm questioning the pros and cons of Alpha accounts as a marketing tool and from brand management point of view.

That's how things work RL (as you ask me to grow up in RL...) - free stuff can be good, but it's not always the best marketing/sales strategy. I've seen companies suffer negative long term consequences because they managed free events and promotions in a wrong way.

Sure, you can say CCP is a successful company and has a dedicated professionals working on marketing and sales strategies so they 'should know better than you, forum idiot'.

Guess what, I too work in a marketing/sales/business development as a professional. I'm not commenting on this as an EVE vet or whatever, I'm genuinely questioning whether these Alpha accounts will have good long term beneficial effect as a marketing tool.

Even companies in Fortune 50 sometimes make major marketing blunder. There are valid questions we can ask to CCP whether something they have in plans is a good idea or not.


Getting back to the topoc - as a player I really don't care. I already have my SP and I can fly all the ships and fits I want. And yes I've paid for my subs long enough that I'm happy that I have something these free players won't - so I'm not arguing against you.


But from Alpha players' perspective, would it offer them good experience to commit cash to the game over long term?

That is debatable.

Let's take a look at the biggest MMO thats still a sub model, World of Warcraft - that is free to play, capped at 20 limited movement within the original game vanilla, a few dungeons 10 gold max and cannot interact with anyone apart from emote or if the other person has then in friends list, all still free to play though.

Now what CCP are offering in there Alpha state clones ( Free to play extension ) - Limited skill set capped at 5 mill skill points and locked to racials, no cap on environment, no cap on earnings, no cap on interactions with anyone, If you have ever been an existing player you can have free access to your account(s) within the capped skillsets check out how the game has evolved and on resubbing gain access to all trained skills/ships again.

So wow is fine but eve is pay to win, Gotta love those beer goggles some folks wear !!!!!!
Carniflex
StarHunt
Mordus Angels
#1078 - 2016-09-02 11:16:56 UTC
Velores Prokhozai wrote:
Carniflex wrote:

Might as well just allow them to fly just noobships with civilian modules then. Otherwise they might somehow manage to kill a paying customer, oh the horror!


Why I can't see all those World of Warcraft: Starter Edition 20 level players complaining that 80lvl paladins are better than them?
What we have now is a pure copy of that wow:se. It's not EVE meant to be played for free, it's EVE that you can TRY as long as you want.


Because WoW is a different game. For a start their match making system is not putting those lev 20 "free" dudes up against a Lev 80 Paladins - and its a theme park - aimed more at PVE content than PvP. While EVE is a sandbox. In here if the Alpha goes to try out FW, for example, all these "lev 80" dudes are waiting for him there - they are not separated into their own little corners of universe with very little to no interaction between them. Second - WoW has no meaningful death penalty - you get ganked by a random lev 80 in your little noob zone - no problems stand up and resume doing what you were doing.

Here, sanity... niiiice sanity, come to daddy... okay, that's a good sanity... THWONK! GOT the bastard.

Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#1079 - 2016-09-02 11:17:15 UTC
Velores Prokhozai wrote:
Carniflex wrote:

Might as well just allow them to fly just noobships with civilian modules then. Otherwise they might somehow manage to kill a paying customer, oh the horror!


Why I can't see all those World of Warcraft: Starter Edition 20 level players complaining that 80lvl paladins are better than them?
What we have now is a pure copy of that wow:se. It's not EVE meant to be played for free, it's EVE that you can TRY as long as you want.

It's all about getting more numbers online to satisfy the bankers paying for Eve/Valkyrie. If it works, well it works.
If not, wait for the next EA idea to be tried and the next and the next until the goal is achieved - Eveonline is no longer about its players, it is all about funding CCP's dreams.

Once Valkyrie - If Valkyrie, ever becomes a hit, we can all expect the dumbing down of our game to be halted or at least slowed - CCP will no longer need us to fund their experiments. At least until the next one comes along.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.

fluffy jo
Universal Exports
#1080 - 2016-09-02 11:17:50 UTC  |  Edited by: fluffy jo
I think the alpha clone idea could be a good thing for eve. It will provide more pilot’s in eve, more life in eve. Some of these alpha pilot’s will be good for eve and some bad.

A Few minor thoughts
Most solo freighters will now be able to have a scout
Every roam will have a suicide scout.
Gankers can have a character ready to go in every trade route.
Every Duel will have a neut suicide logi ready to warp in.
I am not sure if the added pilots will add any quality to eve.

A few minor thoughts about passive game play that may, or may not, have been made.
Probably have been made.

My concerns are really with clone going from alpha to omega, learning skills and doing a job, then dropping back to alpha.
PI . learn 5+ planets with good command center while an omega and then going to alpha. Can they control 5+ planets and can they control a good command center? I would hope only 1 planets, and cannot control a good command center.

Manufacturer and Science jobs that have been learnt while at omega and have submitted 10+ jobs and then going to alpha. Can they then deliver the jobs which they don’t have skills to submit? I would hope they cant deliver any jobs they don’t have skills to submit.

This could be any tech 2 job or 6 month research job

This is also really important for long time research jobs, as this will kill the copy business of high send BPO’s, particularly on long time research like capital or structure ME etc.

Although to submit a 2nd time the account will need to be an omega again. And you could sort of do this now on a 2nd account, but this just makes it so much easier.

This clone change could be good or bad.
Lots of these alpha pvp pilots will leave as they will be outgunned I fear.


Cheers