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Dev Blog: Introducing Clone States & the Future of Access to EVE

First post First post First post
Author
Ginger Naari
Doomheim
#961 - 2016-09-01 18:17:32 UTC
James Duadoulin wrote:
Querns wrote:
Regarding this question in the Q&A:

Quote:

Q: Are there restrictions on simultaneous log on for Alpha Clones?


It seems pretty obvious that you should NOT allow multiple alpha clones to be logged in simultaneously from one computer. Allowing this means that I, with a sufficiently powerful computer, can spin up a functionally unlimited number of characters with Mining Frigate trained, and use them to mine unburdened by the PLEX cost that would apply today. This would have the effect of reducing the cost of minerals to, functionally, zero, completely ruining a moderately healthy style of PVE.



lol how many of us have laptops capable of playing eve in addition to our gaming rig?

i know i have 3 laptops in addition to my gaming rig.

only if they limit it by IP address will they be able to regulate it into uselessness.

still doesnt stop a player from using free alts as ammo dumps.

fit up a t1 hauler with t1 expanders scout your free alt into the area you intend to do PVE and pvp

have them filled up with extra ammo and hull reps/ armor reps. log them off.
now when you are in a region you only have to fly to the system you logged your alt off in
log your alt in. have it jetison the ammo or repairers you need and then log off again.

could save a crap ton of time for mission runners and pvpers who dont want to fly all the way home to refit and repair.

we will find ways to use them . i can already see myself having at least 3 of them just for ammo dumps in the regions i operate in. maybe another as an uncloaky scout/ scanning ship.




Please...the screaming masses will never understand that not everyone is thinking about unlimited skill farms/miners/gank alts in fleets of 50 from every computer..

Personally I think they are mostly butt hurt over them paying for 2/3/4 and more accounts for years, but now someone is getting accounts for free, accounts that they can do a lot of things in that they'll never risk their indy alt doing...not realising ofc that they could actually make a couple of alts which are entirely disposable to try stuff they can't or won't risk an Omega account doing.
Eretria Amberle
Doomheim
#962 - 2016-09-01 18:22:07 UTC
Andre Vauban wrote:
After thinking about this some more, I really think 99.9% of the issues with this idea revolve around people abusing alpha clones to scale alts in ways that haven't been thought out yet.

The way to solve this is to limit the number of alpha accounts belonging to a single human that can be simultaneously logged in to one. The problem here is that people are clever and just using a simple 1 account per PC check isn't sufficient in the days of people having multiple computers and VMs and containers (the real scary one because containers scale much better).

The way to achieve this is really to tie all characters to a human being (name, credit card number, street address, mobile phone number, etc). Make alpha players pay 1 USD/EUR via credit card to verify they are a real person. Make players do mobile phone verification via SMS text messages. Etc, etc, etc.

Then, completely scrap the concept of having multiple accounts. Every human gets exactly 1 account. This new account can have an unlimited number of alpha characters on it (or some large limit that CCP sets for database reasons). The new account also gets the ability to log in a single alpha character (ie 1 simultaneous login). Whenever you purchase a monthly subscription (plex, time card, monthly fee) you get the following: designate 3 characters on your account that are upgraded to omega clone and you get +1 simultaneous logins for omega clones. You can let people remap which characters are omega clones using a timer similar to the attribute remap timer.

Then update the EULA to make it a perma-ban offense for for any human to attempt to have more than 1 Eve online account. The only issue here would be when multiple people in the same household play Eve and in that case there are minors involved so some extra verification is warranted anyway. Also update the EULA to make it a temp ban offense to use alpha clones to circumvent criminal timers or do anything else that you don't want people creating armies of alpha characters for.

If you do this, then you really nip this problem in the bud. NOBODY will attempt to circumvent the 1 account per person problem for fear of getting all their character banned.


I think you meant to finish that with NOBODY will attempt to log in,lol , now you want subbed accounts limited.every human one online account.....that like telling ccp to retract it actually had 500k subs, it made alot of money from alts ,we have made plenty of isk using alts...you want to ban groups from just hopping online and shooting each other cause their ip is all the same ,example would be Korea,quite a few soldiers gather up and games various games,with this notion of yours that get flushed down the drain ,surely it wouldnt come to that ,small identifiers here and there to sort.CCP is not trying to restrict "YOUR" gameplay just constrict what may have been abusive gameplay .They want to fix issues.People seem to have a problem with excessive accounts whether it be trail or subbed .Alts provide a means of taking on issues instead of having to wait years to train all the skills you 'might' need.Taking them away is like saying once you fly amarr you cant go Minmatar ever.CCP can nickel and dime this however they want and Sharpshooting them isnt what they want,they want feedback about possible issues. they change the way something is named and now its like the end of the world. And they will get a clear picture when subs stops .



Riela Tanal
Divine Angels
Lord of Worlds Alliance
#963 - 2016-09-01 18:30:29 UTC
Will Alpha clones have access to SISI or Thunderdome servers?
Winter Archipelago
Autumn Industrial Enterprises
#964 - 2016-09-01 18:33:55 UTC
Tau Cabalander wrote:
...Gnosis...

CCP may have overlooked this hull IF SKILLS ARE THE ONLY LIMITING FACTOR, which would be the obvious and simplest way to implement alpha clones.


Nope. CCP have confirmed that the Gnosis is available for use. Oh, right. It wasn't clarified in this thread, in the dev post, or anywhere on the eveonline.com domain, where it might be easily seen or found by players of EVE Online, the game CCP created. IT WAS CLARIFIED ON REDDIT.

CCP, please. Posting information to Reddit instead of your own bloody site is frustrating and insulting. It's enough of a challenge to sift through multiple threads and dev blogs to put together relevant information. Having to include Reddit in that search (actually, going to Reddit first instead the official site) is just silly. At the very least, cross-post the information to both sites. It won't hurt to put a link in the thread dedicated to the subject (ie., this one) pointing to the question that was answered, either.
Teckos Pech
Patriotic Tendencies
Goonswarm Federation
#965 - 2016-09-01 18:45:04 UTC
Ginger Naari wrote:
James Duadoulin wrote:
Querns wrote:
Regarding this question in the Q&A:

Quote:

Q: Are there restrictions on simultaneous log on for Alpha Clones?


It seems pretty obvious that you should NOT allow multiple alpha clones to be logged in simultaneously from one computer. Allowing this means that I, with a sufficiently powerful computer, can spin up a functionally unlimited number of characters with Mining Frigate trained, and use them to mine unburdened by the PLEX cost that would apply today. This would have the effect of reducing the cost of minerals to, functionally, zero, completely ruining a moderately healthy style of PVE.



lol how many of us have laptops capable of playing eve in addition to our gaming rig?

i know i have 3 laptops in addition to my gaming rig.

only if they limit it by IP address will they be able to regulate it into uselessness.

still doesnt stop a player from using free alts as ammo dumps.

fit up a t1 hauler with t1 expanders scout your free alt into the area you intend to do PVE and pvp

have them filled up with extra ammo and hull reps/ armor reps. log them off.
now when you are in a region you only have to fly to the system you logged your alt off in
log your alt in. have it jetison the ammo or repairers you need and then log off again.

could save a crap ton of time for mission runners and pvpers who dont want to fly all the way home to refit and repair.

we will find ways to use them . i can already see myself having at least 3 of them just for ammo dumps in the regions i operate in. maybe another as an uncloaky scout/ scanning ship.




Please...the screaming masses will never understand that not everyone is thinking about unlimited skill farms/miners/gank alts in fleets of 50 from every computer..

Personally I think they are mostly butt hurt over them paying for 2/3/4 and more accounts for years, but now someone is getting accounts for free, accounts that they can do a lot of things in that they'll never risk their indy alt doing...not realising ofc that they could actually make a couple of alts which are entirely disposable to try stuff they can't or won't risk an Omega account doing.


Not only that but how would you control 3 let alone 10 or 20 alts from 3 (or 10 or 20) different computers.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Ginger Naari
Doomheim
#966 - 2016-09-01 18:45:28 UTC
Winter Archipelago wrote:
Tau Cabalander wrote:
...Gnosis...

CCP may have overlooked this hull IF SKILLS ARE THE ONLY LIMITING FACTOR, which would be the obvious and simplest way to implement alpha clones.


Nope. CCP have confirmed that the Gnosis is available for use. Oh, right. It wasn't clarified in this thread, in the dev post, or anywhere on the eveonline.com domain, where it might be easily seen or found by players of EVE Online, the game CCP created. IT WAS CLARIFIED ON REDDIT.

CCP, please. Posting information to Reddit instead of your own bloody site is frustrating and insulting. It's enough of a challenge to sift through multiple threads and dev blogs to put together relevant information. Having to include Reddit in that search (actually, going to Reddit first instead the official site) is just silly. At the very least, cross-post the information to both sites. It won't hurt to put a link in the thread dedicated to the subject (ie., this one) pointing to the question that was answered, either.




It's strange that he can be bothered answering there instead of here really.

Annoying as well as the only time I ever use Reddit for anything is when something like this happens :/
Lasisha Mishi
A Blessed Bean
Pandemic Horde
#967 - 2016-09-01 18:49:41 UTC
so i recently talked to my clan from Star Trek Online, Archeage, and WoT

and asked them if they would be willing to try EVE if the trial didn't have a time limit on it.

they were REALLY confused when i explained the skill lock/limits and stuff. but overall most agreed they'd be up to try it out .

not sure how many will stay once they learn how dangerous EVE is, but i'm sure some will find the appeal in it i have.



so +1 for this move CCP.
and i'll give more +1s once we get to the point when i teach these guys the harsh reality of EVE.....aka don't trust anyone(they half expect me to kill them at some point from the stories i've told them)

can't w8 for this update to come
MAS0RAKSH
Doomheim
#968 - 2016-09-01 18:55:54 UTC
Ginger Naari wrote:
James Duadoulin wrote:
Querns wrote:
Regarding this question in the Q&A:

[quote]
Q: Are there restrictions on simultaneous log on for Alpha Clones?


characters with Mining Frigate trained, and use them to mine unburdened by the PLEX cost that would apply today. This would have the effect of reducing the cost of minerals to, functionally, zero, completely ruining a moderately healthy style of PVE.





but to remove mining frigate, mining, and reprocessing removes the ability for actual new alphas to make isk when they've lost everything. is it possible to lock their mining lasers to not work in 0.0?
Teckos Pech
Patriotic Tendencies
Goonswarm Federation
#969 - 2016-09-01 18:58:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Teckos Pech
Lasisha Mishi wrote:
so i recently talked to my clan from Star Trek Online, Archeage, and WoT

and asked them if they would be willing to try EVE if the trial didn't have a time limit on it.

they were REALLY confused when i explained the skill lock/limits and stuff. but overall most agreed they'd be up to try it out .

not sure how many will stay once they learn how dangerous EVE is, but i'm sure some will find the appeal in it i have.



so +1 for this move CCP.
and i'll give more +1s once we get to the point when i teach these guys the harsh reality of EVE.....aka don't trust anyone(they half expect me to kill them at some point from the stories i've told them)

can't w8 for this update to come


Same, I have a coworker who plans on trying it out. He realizes exactly how brutal the game can be in terms of player interaction, so not worried about that. What kept him away was RL would often keep him away and the thought of paying a sub for a game he was not able to play regularly was not appealing.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

ACESsiggy
The Scope
#970 - 2016-09-01 18:58:59 UTC
A much needed improvement to the way new players can engage the game and be apart of the EVE universe.

“The open-minded see the truth in different things: the narrow-minded see only the differences.”

Memnon Shepard
The Occupation.
#971 - 2016-09-01 18:59:05 UTC
I was initially surprised and didn't know how to feel, but the more I think/read about this change the more I like it. It seems like they've thought out how to prevent any catastrophic damage to the universe while also allowing people to hang out with old friends (particularly those who have left the game over time but miss old corp mates). It will also make it easier for me to get friends into the game who enjoyed the tutorial but refuse to fork over a subscription fee. I'm excited to see how this turns out!
Teckos Pech
Patriotic Tendencies
Goonswarm Federation
#972 - 2016-09-01 19:00:56 UTC
MAS0RAKSH wrote:
Ginger Naari wrote:
James Duadoulin wrote:
Querns wrote:
Regarding this question in the Q&A:

[quote]
Q: Are there restrictions on simultaneous log on for Alpha Clones?


characters with Mining Frigate trained, and use them to mine unburdened by the PLEX cost that would apply today. This would have the effect of reducing the cost of minerals to, functionally, zero, completely ruining a moderately healthy style of PVE.





but to remove mining frigate, mining, and reprocessing removes the ability for actual new alphas to make isk when they've lost everything. is it possible to lock their mining lasers to not work in 0.0?


Sooo...lets just make it a truly awful extended trial? Am I reading you correctly?

And maybe no to the mining lasers in NS because maybe some might go there, mine stuff and see how much more ISK there is and want to live in NS and sub. Or they'll get killed, and see how exciting it is and want to sub. Or...quit...but then it's just an Alpha.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

James Duadoulin
WiNGSPAN Delivery Services
WiNGSPAN Delivery Network
#973 - 2016-09-01 19:04:14 UTC  |  Edited by: James Duadoulin
Teckos Pech wrote:
Ginger Naari wrote:
James Duadoulin wrote:
Querns wrote:
Regarding this question in the Q&A:

Quote:

Q: Are there restrictions on simultaneous log on for Alpha Clones?


It seems pretty obvious that you should NOT allow multiple alpha clones to be logged in simultaneously from one computer. Allowing this means that I, with a sufficiently powerful computer, can spin up a functionally unlimited number of characters with Mining Frigate trained, and use them to mine unburdened by the PLEX cost that would apply today. This would have the effect of reducing the cost of minerals to, functionally, zero, completely ruining a moderately healthy style of PVE.



lol how many of us have laptops capable of playing eve in addition to our gaming rig?

i know i have 3 laptops in addition to my gaming rig.

only if they limit it by IP address will they be able to regulate it into uselessness.

still doesnt stop a player from using free alts as ammo dumps.

fit up a t1 hauler with t1 expanders scout your free alt into the area you intend to do PVE and pvp

have them filled up with extra ammo and hull reps/ armor reps. log them off.
now when you are in a region you only have to fly to the system you logged your alt off in
log your alt in. have it jetison the ammo or repairers you need and then log off again.

could save a crap ton of time for mission runners and pvpers who dont want to fly all the way home to refit and repair.

we will find ways to use them . i can already see myself having at least 3 of them just for ammo dumps in the regions i operate in. maybe another as an uncloaky scout/ scanning ship.


Please...the screaming masses will never understand that not everyone is thinking about unlimited skill farms/miners/gank alts in fleets of 50 from every computer..

Personally I think they are mostly butt hurt over them paying for 2/3/4 and more accounts for years, but now someone is getting accounts for free, accounts that they can do a lot of things in that they'll never risk their indy alt doing...not realising ofc that they could actually make a couple of alts which are entirely disposable to try stuff they can't or won't risk an Omega account doing.


Not only that but how would you control 3 let alone 10 or 20 alts from 3 (or 10 or 20) different computers.



3 alts on 3 different computers is fairly easy when they are only scouts. (and you could also train them up on drones and have them assign drones to your main. its a force multiplier. ratting HAVENS in 2-3 min by virtue of 20 drones following your commands. granted they are T1 but you can still faction fit those vexors. once the drones are assigned the otehr accounts requre no input except for monitoring ship hp and drone health levels.

go into wormhole scan down all wh exits pop your alts 1000km off of each hole. you have instant feedback if anyone enters system
same thing that used to be done with cloaky camera alts except its live and they are actually vulnerable since they cant cloak.
Teckos Pech
Patriotic Tendencies
Goonswarm Federation
#974 - 2016-09-01 19:11:44 UTC
James Duadoulin wrote:



3 alts on 3 different computers is fairly easy when they are only scouts. (and you could also train them up on drones and have them assign drones to your main. its a force multiplier. ratting HAVENS in 2-3 min by virtue of 20 drones following your commands. granted they are T1 but you can still faction fit those vexors. once the drones are assigned the otehr accounts requre no input except for monitoring ship hp and drone health levels.

go into wormhole scan down all wh exits pop your alts 1000km off of each hole. you have instant feedback if anyone enters system
same thing that used to be done with cloaky camera alts except its live and they are actually vulnerable since they cant cloak.



That's true, but when that bad guy comes and lands in your sanctum.... you are pretty much stuck there or you will lose 1-3 of your ratting vexors. And once that happened, if it were me, I'd be coming back regularly to pay you a visit. Big smile

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Dibble Dabble
Capital Assets Inc
#975 - 2016-09-01 19:14:07 UTC
I am not sure if this has been asked but will Alpha clones / accounts have full access to the forums or will this be reserved for paid for accounts only?

Teckos Pech
Patriotic Tendencies
Goonswarm Federation
#976 - 2016-09-01 19:15:08 UTC
Dibble Dabble wrote:
I am not sure if this has been asked but will Alpha clones / accounts have full access to the forums or will this be reserved for paid for accounts only?



It has been asked, not sure of an answer....

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Careby
#977 - 2016-09-01 19:17:52 UTC
James Duadoulin wrote:
...only if they limit it by IP address will they be able to regulate it into uselessness...


Limiting by IP address is not really practical - there are lots of unrelated players that share the same IP. A lot of university networks use private IPs behind NAT, so all the students in all the dorms might have the same external IP. On the other hand, players with access to a block of global IPs could easily field multiple IPs on one computer.

Blastil
Aideron Robotics
#978 - 2016-09-01 19:21:35 UTC
Emilie Chatelet wrote:
Dear CCP,

I have a question. I just started playing EVE, with a paid subscription. Will I be given all of those skills for free come November? Or, should I just stop my subscription now, and wait to get them in November?


Please read the dev blog. Those players will not get free skills or skill points. They acquire those the exact same way you do.

YOU however are still free to skill up beyond that 5 million SP cap that's race locked into your specific race.
Borgum
FA-JIN
#979 - 2016-09-01 19:31:49 UTC
In case this was not asked: For the char and alts that were trained up from 0 skills on the current subscription plan, will the new free clone skills be reimbursed per char if we've already spent the time and real life money to train them?
Ginger Naari
Doomheim
#980 - 2016-09-01 19:35:21 UTC
Borgum wrote:
In case this was not asked: For the char and alts that were trained up from 0 skills on the current subscription plan, will the new free clone skills be reimbursed per char if we've already spent the time and real life money to train them?



No.