These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE Information Portal

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Dev Blog: Introducing Clone States & the Future of Access to EVE

First post First post First post
Author
Oradric Cube
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#921 - 2016-09-01 15:40:15 UTC
Q: Won’t suicide ganking using free characters be a major problem?

A: We don’t think clone states will have much impact on suicide ganking or other harassment in high-sec. But, we will be paying very close attention and if this becomes an issue we can pursue options to improve the situation such as turning safety’s on for Alphas in high sec or making changes to the allowed skills list.


Dear CCP staff,
None of us truly believe that you are actually this naive. There will, with 100% certainty, be individuals that take advantage of this opportunity to create massive multiboxing fleets constructed of mostly alpha state accounts. We all know it, and we know that you know it. We also know that your "paying close attention" won't amount to much. You are willfully ignoring this issue because you *want* this to happen. If you don't design an automated mechanism (IE max 1 alpha per IP, no red safety on alpha, etc.) for preventing abuse then it will be abused. By not automating this you accept, condone and approve of the abuse. Just admit it.
Emilie Chatelet
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#922 - 2016-09-01 15:51:40 UTC
Dear CCP,

I have a question. I just started playing EVE, with a paid subscription. Will I be given all of those skills for free come November? Or, should I just stop my subscription now, and wait to get them in November?
MuraSaki Siki
ChuangShi
Fraternity.
#923 - 2016-09-01 15:52:04 UTC  |  Edited by: MuraSaki Siki
i have a great concern about account hack

if login in is opened freely, those accounts with weak password, account leaks from outside, etc those will become 'hackable'
it makes a great pressure of customer services to dual with it.
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#924 - 2016-09-01 15:53:59 UTC
Emilie Chatelet wrote:
Dear CCP,

I have a question. I just started playing EVE, with a paid subscription. Will I be given all of those skills for free come November? Or, should I just stop my subscription now, and wait to get them in November?

Alphas do not get them automatically, they still have to be trained, and they train slower.

Know a Frozen fan? Check this out

Frozen fanfiction

Roenok Baalnorn
Baalnorn Heavy Industries
#925 - 2016-09-01 15:54:08 UTC
David Grogan wrote:
Major Trant wrote:
Can I suggest CCP simplifies the list of what skills are available to each race's Alpha Clone to the following catagories:

  • Common (which has the majority that are shared between them all)
  • Amarr
  • Caldari
  • Gallente
  • Minmatar

That way people can compare the differences between each race easier.



how i think alpha accounts should be restricted

1. all races can cross train so new players can get a proper taste of eve online but only upto cruiser and medium sized weapons at level 3

2. restrict the max skill level for alphas to 3 for all the primary skills - max level 5 for drone operation skill but max level 4 for all other drone related skills. cannot train heavy drones or fighters (to stop people using geckos)

3. make all t2 modules require level 4 or higher

4. make all bc or larger ships require spaceship command 4

5. make all t2/t3 ships require at least 1 level 5 skill

6. mining barges/exumers/orca/freighters/jf/capitals cannot be used on alpha accounts

7. entosis, cloak, and cyno mods cannot be used on alpha accounts

8. pi is limited to level 2 command centers and level 2 inter planetary and level 2 remote sensing (max 3 pi colonies)

9. only one alpha account per computer can log in at any one time

10. alpha accounts can train mining frig 2

11. alpha accounts cannot create corporations or alliances but can join existing ones however they cannot be ceo of an existing corp or alliance.

12. alpha accounts cannot anchor structures larger than MTU or Mobile Depot

13. alpha accounts cannot assign/drones to other players

14. alpha accounts cannot do t2 invention/copy blueprints etc

15. alpha accounts cannot build t2/t3 or capital ships

16. alpha accounts cannot have more than 5 buy orders or 10 sell orders at any one time.

17. alpha accounts are forced to safety green in high sec (however accepting a duel or can baiting is allowed)

You didnt read the dev blog did you? Most of your points were covered or otherwise made pointless by the dev blog.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#926 - 2016-09-01 16:06:43 UTC
David Grogan wrote:
if this goes ahead jf/freighter runs will get expensive real fast.

imagine uedema to niarja full of alpha account gankers. no freighter/jf will get through

step 1 bump freighter/jf

step 2 gank webber

step 3 gank freighter jf

lol


With a JF you jump over Uedama. Problem solved. That's what I do.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Ginger Naari
Doomheim
#927 - 2016-09-01 16:13:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Ginger Naari
David Grogan wrote:
Major Trant wrote:
Can I suggest CCP simplifies the list of what skills are available to each race's Alpha Clone to the following catagories:

  • Common (which has the majority that are shared between them all)
  • Amarr
  • Caldari
  • Gallente
  • Minmatar

That way people can compare the differences between each race easier.



how i think alpha accounts should be restricted

1. all races can cross train so new players can get a proper taste of eve online but only upto cruiser and medium sized weapons at level 3

2. restrict the max skill level for alphas to 3 for all the primary skills - max level 5 for drone operation skill but max level 4 for all other drone related skills. cannot train heavy drones or fighters (to stop people using geckos)

3. make all t2 modules require level 4 or higher

4. make all bc or larger ships require spaceship command 4

5. make all t2/t3 ships require at least 1 level 5 skill

6. mining barges/exumers/orca/freighters/jf/capitals cannot be used on alpha accounts

7. entosis, cloak, and cyno mods cannot be used on alpha accounts

8. pi is limited to level 2 command centers and level 2 inter planetary and level 2 remote sensing (max 3 pi colonies)

9. only one alpha account per computer can log in at any one time

10. alpha accounts can train mining frig 2

11. alpha accounts cannot create corporations or alliances but can join existing ones however they cannot be ceo of an existing corp or alliance.

12. alpha accounts cannot anchor structures larger than MTU or Mobile Depot

13. alpha accounts cannot assign/drones to other players

14. alpha accounts cannot do t2 invention/copy blueprints etc

15. alpha accounts cannot build t2/t3 or capital ships

16. alpha accounts cannot have more than 5 buy orders or 10 sell orders at any one time.

17. alpha accounts are forced to safety green in high sec (however accepting a duel or can baiting is allowed)



So basically, you don't want them able to do anything?
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#928 - 2016-09-01 16:15:34 UTC
EvilweaselSA wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:

Yes, on average you can pay for your sub, but the problem with averages is that some months you won't and you'll shell out nearly $1500 to keep the game going.

you still can't remember plex exist, even in a post where you discusses plex

this is really amazing how badly you want to not be wrong

unfortunately for you, today is just like any other day, a day filled with you both metaphorically and literally faceplanting left and right



So only the super rich in game can do it. Okay, so we have yet another outlier concern. And in the end you are going to make a small amount of ISK (relatively speaking) since most of what you make will go towards subbing the accounts.

Next stupid concern.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#929 - 2016-09-01 16:20:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Tsukino Stareine
There's been some absolutely horrible posts so far, mainly due to ignorance (people clearly not reading for devblog) or just some extremely convulated explanations of how this will kill eve (one particular favourite was how it was going to harm the skill injector market).


Overall I think only three valid concerns have been raised throughout this almost 50 page shitfest ( honestly I thought the eve forum community was smarter than what has been demonstrated here):

1. Simultaneous account logging.

2. Safety settings.

3. Chat limitations.

I'm not going to debunk or explain to any of you that might think you have other valid concerns (spoiler: you don't) as it's already been done multiple times.

This is not 'F2P', this is an update to the current trial system to encourage more subscriptions and also retain current subscriptions.

Most people who actually play this game and make active contributions to it shouldn't have a problem with more players entering the arena.

And to all the people crying about how f2p "killed" other games, you couldn't be further from the truth. F2p is likely what kept some games profitable after various factors caused them to be unsustainable if still on a subscription model.
Cyrano Garjuiji
Praetorian Heavy Industries
The Praetorian Guardsmen
#930 - 2016-09-01 16:27:35 UTC
Q: What happens To my Planetary Interaction Once I change from Omega to Alpha ?

Since alpha clones do not have the skills to do planetary interaction at all. (which I think is a good thing and should stay)
Sexy Cakes
Have A Seat
#931 - 2016-09-01 16:44:06 UTC
I like it. Ship it.

Not today spaghetti.

Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Top Belt for Fun
#932 - 2016-09-01 16:48:46 UTC
Tsukino Stareine wrote:

This is not 'F2P', this is an update to the current trial system to encourage more subscriptions and also retain current subscriptions.


No one seems to agree with you:
http://www.theverge.com/2016/8/31/12729104/eve-online-free-to-play
http://kotaku.com/eve-online-goes-free-to-play-in-november-1785996720
http://www.gamespot.com/articles/eve-online-going-free-to-play/1100-6443175/
http://www.pcworld.com/article/3113682/software/eve-onlines-going-free-to-play-after-13-subscription-only-years-of-epic-space-battles.html
http://www.denofgeek.com/uk/games/eve-online/43381/eve-online-will-introduce-a-free-to-play-option

The dev blog and associated video have a lot of the word free in them as well. It's free to play, alright, it's just a super ****** version of it. That's going to make it fail to attract the people it should have attracted, and fail to retain people no change would have retained. What they've suggested is the cautious worst-of-all-possible-worlds first step into the F2P market that is in essence nothing short of outright pay to win.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.

Winter Archipelago
Autumn Industrial Enterprises
#933 - 2016-09-01 16:59:13 UTC
Brokk Witgenstein wrote:
Ms Michigan wrote:

I would love to see Alpha permadeath or limited to 10 reclones before they have to buy an Omega for at least one cycle to reset the counter back to 10. Make them like slaves in lore to our Omega. haha

Some very interesting points raised there, but permadeath sounds like fun; kinda like civilians that couldn't afford a proper clone and got a flawed, degenerating one from Quark's ;-)

Making that the F2P part would probably backfire, especially if you could only be podded a limited number of times.

Having a "Civilian" license however, that might be interesting. A one-time payment, perhaps, that allows for a "Civilian" account, allowing use of all non-T2 subcap ships (and all mods). You start with a maxed-out Alpha clone and can train normally from there, but if you get podded, you lose all skills down to a maxed-out Alpha clone. You're still a "Civilian" account so you can keep training up again, but pod loss is very detrimental. Of course, since they're technically not Capsuleers, they wouldn't be able to use Extractors or Injectors, either, to prevent abuse in that way.

Of course, it would be a big issue for professions that don't really need to put themselves at risk. P4 chains in highsec, research / manufacturing alts, and similar, all have very little risk if they're not being foolish. Having no restrictions would be a bit problematic in that part.
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#934 - 2016-09-01 17:00:08 UTC
You know it's a journalists job to sensationalise article headlines so that people will actually read them right?

What you classify as a 'super ****' version of f2p, I define it as something different and honestly given the initial parameters they've set here, it's literally got 0 parallels with any of the other f2p models out there.

Most of them offer unrestricted gameplay with micro transactions to enhance your experience, whether that be in the form of mundane things such as inventory space or cosmetic like skins and pets. You never really need to pay anything but sure it will be easier if you paid some cash.

This proposition from CCP however is very tranparent that YOU WILL BE LIMITED, you just don't have a time limit on how long you're limited for and you can continue having your character forever if you decide to sub or not.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#935 - 2016-09-01 17:02:13 UTC
Emilie Chatelet wrote:
Dear CCP,

I have a question. I just started playing EVE, with a paid subscription. Will I be given all of those skills for free come November? Or, should I just stop my subscription now, and wait to get them in November?



If you skill up those skills and go no further you can let your sub lapse and keep playing as an Alpha.

If you go beyond those skills and then let your sub lapse, then any skills not on the Alpha list are "blocked"--i.e. you do not get the benefit of them. So if for example you trained up to a battlecruiser, once you went Alpha you would not get the benefit of that skill and would not be able to fly a battlecruiser.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Top Belt for Fun
#936 - 2016-09-01 17:06:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Liang Nuren
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
You know it's a journalists job to sensationalise article headlines so that people will actually read them right?

What you classify as a 'super ****' version of f2p, I define it as something different and honestly given the initial parameters they've set here, it's literally got 0 parallels with any of the other f2p models out there.

Most of them offer unrestricted gameplay with micro transactions to enhance your experience, whether that be in the form of mundane things such as inventory space or cosmetic like skins and pets. You never really need to pay anything but sure it will be easier if you paid some cash.

This proposition from CCP however is very tranparent that YOU WILL BE LIMITED, you just don't have a time limit on how long you're limited for and you can continue having your character forever if you decide to sub or not.


You know all of those new players that you're hoping will come play the game? They're going to be attracted by the headlines those journalists are writing. The ones that say the game is going free to play. Those wells - and all of their friends - are going to be poisoned the moment they see the incredibly glaring pay to win aspect of Eve. Defending this as "nothing more than a trial" would be fine if CCP had said they were modifying the trial program. They didn't. They said they were making people able to play Eve for free.

Again, this is a super ****** version of f2p, and this kind of cautious step will give them the worst of all possible worlds. IMO, if they're going to do this, they need to do it, and do it right. These half measures will just **** literally everyone off.

-Liang

Ed: I kinda don't want to bring professional qualifications into this, but I have been working in free to play games for quite a few years now. I see no way this turns out well.

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.

Andrea Cemenotar
Elena Minasse Operations
#937 - 2016-09-01 17:09:09 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
Tsukino Stareine wrote:

This is not 'F2P', this is an update to the current trial system to encourage more subscriptions and also retain current subscriptions.


No one seems to agree with you:
http://www.theverge.com/2016/8/31/12729104/eve-online-free-to-play
http://kotaku.com/eve-online-goes-free-to-play-in-november-1785996720
http://www.gamespot.com/articles/eve-online-going-free-to-play/1100-6443175/
http://www.pcworld.com/article/3113682/software/eve-onlines-going-free-to-play-after-13-subscription-only-years-of-epic-space-battles.html
http://www.denofgeek.com/uk/games/eve-online/43381/eve-online-will-introduce-a-free-to-play-option

The dev blog and associated video have a lot of the word free in them as well. It's free to play, alright, it's just a super ****** version of it. That's going to make it fail to attract the people it should have attracted, and fail to retain people no change would have retained. What they've suggested is the cautious worst-of-all-possible-worlds first step into the F2P market that is in essence nothing short of outright pay to win.

-Liang


and this is pretty much what recently pisses me off in gaming press nowadays - these people seems to ceased giving any crap about proper use of terminology - and this is not first game that introduced time limit-less trial accounts that has been called "f2p" by these

also using word "free" in a video blog does not mean EvE turning "f2p" game - because you know, the main thing about trial accesses to a software is that these trials are accessed FOR FREE

[if gaming press was even remotely as decent nowaday as it used to in the past, the titles would be "EvE Online removes time limit from trial accounts"]
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#938 - 2016-09-01 17:10:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Tsukino Stareine
I agree there, concept is good, way it's been marketed is incredibly bad.

they need to damage control before it gets labelled as a scam

And 100% agree with the above. Gaming journalism is ******* terrible these days, most articles come from people who have never even played the game they are writing about and it's usually click bait with really bad research and no substance.
Winter Archipelago
Autumn Industrial Enterprises
#939 - 2016-09-01 17:10:38 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
Tsukino Stareine wrote:

This is not 'F2P', this is an update to the current trial system to encourage more subscriptions and also retain current subscriptions.


No one seems to agree with you:
http://www.theverge.com/2016/8/31/12729104/eve-online-free-to-play
http://kotaku.com/eve-online-goes-free-to-play-in-november-1785996720
http://www.gamespot.com/articles/eve-online-going-free-to-play/1100-6443175/
http://www.pcworld.com/article/3113682/software/eve-onlines-going-free-to-play-after-13-subscription-only-years-of-epic-space-battles.html
http://www.denofgeek.com/uk/games/eve-online/43381/eve-online-will-introduce-a-free-to-play-option

The dev blog and associated video have a lot of the word free in them as well. It's free to play, alright, it's just a super ****** version of it. That's going to make it fail to attract the people it should have attracted, and fail to retain people no change would have retained. What they've suggested is the cautious worst-of-all-possible-worlds first step into the F2P market that is in essence nothing short of outright pay to win.

-Liang

It's a limited form of F2P, yes. Calling it F2P is the easiest way to get it out to the general masses, as well, with as few miscommunication issues as possible. Calling it "unlimited trial accounts" or "infinite trial accounts" or something similar has the risk of making people think you can create as many limited-time trial accounts as you want. it is an update to the trial account system, and it is F2P in that regard.

As for failing to attract other people, I'm honestly not so sure that this is the ultimate goal of it. I have long believed, and still maintain, that the short trial times just aren't enough time for new players to really get invested into the game, especially considering how different it is from every MMO out there. Having unending trial accounts allows a person to learn at a more leisurely pace, instead of trying to learn everything they can and attempting to socialize and get to know people in two or three weeks. Being asked to pony up $15 while you're still clueless is not an easy sell.

While saying "F2P" will most certainly bring folks in to try it out, even if most don't stick around, those who do decide to stick around will have more time to learn and grow before making the plunge. It's not so very different from being able to make multiple trial accounts while still learning the basics, except now, if a person begins to get invested in their character, they know they won't lose them in two weeks while they're still on the fence about joining.

In fewer words, it takes the pressure off new players from having to join while they're still learning. For many, many people (I would hazard to say most), having to make a pressured decision about whether or not to money on a luxury will almost always result in them not spending the money. This takes that pressure away while increasing exposure. Even if it doesn't increase the number of incoming newbies, I strongly believe that it will increase the conversion rates of those who do come.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Top Belt for Fun
#940 - 2016-09-01 17:11:36 UTC
Andrea Cemenotar wrote:

[if gaming press was even remotely as decent nowaday as it used to in the past, the titles would be "EvE Online removes time limit from trial accounts"]


No, that's actually on CCP. They spent a lot of time talking about playing Eve for free, not about removing time limits on trial accounts or buffing trial accounts. Can't blame the gaming press for that one - a cursory listen to Seagull's video and read of the blog is definitely making everyone (both here and in the gaming media) use the words free to play. It's almost like they wanted to see the media boost but didn't want to actually use the words.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.