These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE Information Portal

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Dev Blog: Introducing Clone States & the Future of Access to EVE

First post First post First post
Author
Velores Prokhozai
Sad Frog Space Fighters
#821 - 2016-09-01 09:27:40 UTC
Ok, this is the things that I am woried about:

-Alpha accounts should be able to launch only one game instance per computer, point. Also you can't launch Alpha if already have Omega running.

-Alpha players must be limited to public communications, to prevent spamming. So if you want doing ISK doubling in Jita local please keep subscription. Also consider in this case "verified alpha" state for characters that have been subscribed to omega at least onece, "verified alpha" shoud have no restrictions in terms of public communication, but can lose that privilege if eula was violated.

-All "offline" professions should be also limited by some way. PI, T1 blueprints (production, research, copy),R&D agents, market orders, contracts - to prevent abusing by hundreds of alts. Maybe just double or triple industry tax/broker fee for alpha character so running all those jobs/orders would not be economically profitable in large scales, but newbros still be able to try build rifter from veldspar.

-Not shure about hisec gank and FW. If we can keep "one player - one human" nothing bad will happen there.

And the most sweet part - Wormhole Keepers
What if I will create thousands of characters and then logoff every one, in every wh system I can reach, sitting heron and probe launcher, and then at any time later I can login and scan down way to any wh system in universe in couple of minutes.
So I think Alpha clones are very cheap and imperfect - they must visit medical service once a week to keep them alive. If you want to live in wh you could have Astrahus(God bless Upwell) there. If you stay in space more than a week -> eject -> selfdestruct -> welcome to home station. And yes, no ship reimbursement, is it still game about cruel galaxy or what?

Hope I was heard. Thanks.
Dex Cordell
EVE University
Ivy League
#822 - 2016-09-01 09:31:24 UTC
generally a +1 for new blood into the game. proposed restrictions seem reasonable. after reading through the first replies to this thread, I'd like to upvote the suggestion about aggro restriction, green only in high sec, to avoid freebie gank swarms adding up to the already tedious ganking environment there.

I'd vote against the notion to let the freebies have all listed skills maxed out from the start on, would be an excellent training shortcut for newcomers who would immediately sub into a fully capable combat alt/main without at least some time lapse.

P.S.: Can't wait to have a pvp experience in areas to which I'm risk-averse or otherwise am unable to use my main for. I can already see the corporate and alliance security measures go considerably up for all the large entities in sovnull Bear
Drazz Caylen
Team-Pyro Industries
#823 - 2016-09-01 09:35:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Drazz Caylen
Frank Pannon wrote:
What I did not find / did not understand yet is, what happens to my character, if my subscription runs out. Will I be locked into my "birth" alpha skills, in my case Amarr alpha clone skills?
The devblog already answered this question thoroughly;

"We won’t be moving ships around or cancelling your jobs and orders. Instead, benefits from skills that require Omega state won’t be applied and modules requiring those skills will go offline." <-- thus only the skills apply you are allowed to have as Alpha, in case you even trained them.

In case you logged out in a ship which is Omega skill restricted:
"You will be allowed to fly the ship until the next time you dock, but any ship bonuses or attributes will not gain the benefits of Omega skills." <-- I reckon if you don't want to be locked out of your ship, you just log off in space if you know you're prior to expire. However, given the nature of possible exploits, I wouldn't bet my money this devblog entry will remain. You don't need to dock anywhere to still be viable to do certain shenanigans in the game by simply BEING in a ship, like bumping Machariels or the role bonus of a Combat Recon ship of not being detectable on d-scan. There are still concerns pending requiring CCP's decision.


Velores Prokhozai wrote:
-Alpha players must be limited to public communications, to prevent spamming.
This ones stands out about the other restrictions you suggest.
Look at a current trial account, which has a few second spam prevention, and tell me why it's so bad for Alphas to be chat restricted but not for trials?
Think about trial versus Alpha and ask yourself, what would you permit a trial that you would not permit an Alpha and vice versa? Because CCP has said how Trial status will not go away. I guess it will be something like Trial having more freedom than Alpha, but less than Omega, and after the period you get set back to Alpha and teased with subscription.

This goes to any and all people by the way who have in all those pages roared something about what Alphas totally are not and never allowed to do, which trial accounts already can do.
Brokk Witgenstein
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#824 - 2016-09-01 09:37:48 UTC
Dex Cordell wrote:
I'd like to upvote the suggestion about aggro restriction, green only in high sec, to avoid freebie gank swarms adding up to the already tedious ganking environment there.

Missing the point- there's plenty of exploits with safety green. Free gankers are as bad as free miners, free scouts, free DPlexers, free assembly lines, free scanner alts, free logi, free belt Orca bumpers (which WILL work with green safety LOL) in fact "free" is the problematic part here. If everyone else is getting freebees I demand free cyno alts and free cloaky eyes too-- then I can unsub as well.

Ganking is the least of your concerns imo.
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#825 - 2016-09-01 09:39:55 UTC
Malcanis wrote:


CCP aren't calling this "f2p". Marketing this change to your friends as an "unlimited free trial" might help, because that's what it is.

Incidentally, for those who are quitting because eve is getting unlimited free trial access, what's the longest trial account term you feel is ethical? Obviously it's at least 52 days, since we've had 51 day trials before. What's the maximum you'd accept?

Might as well make it 90 days. That seems to be a number CCP likes.

Forum threads are locked after 90 days.

Epic Arcs can be repeated after 90 days.

Blink



DMC
Titus Cole Dooley
Fuel Blocks for Dante
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#826 - 2016-09-01 09:48:33 UTC
Sad thing is no matter how much people don't like this change its still going to happen. we would have to have a real burn Jita 2 and then unsub like 10k players. never know maybe its just a cycle we will have to go through to keep the game going the way we want it.
BuntCakez
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#827 - 2016-09-01 09:52:50 UTC
DeMichael Crimson wrote:

Within my 8+ years of playing this game, I've seen way too many good Dev's get fired and this game has been hurting for it ever since, especially in the last couple of years. Recently it seems the term 'New Content' mainly refers to graphics being redone or needless changes to UI or implementing drastic changes to game mechanics basically placing rules and restrictions on game play, etc..


Ive been playing a while aswell, and i honestly think that the changes made to EVE in the last year or so have been some of the best changes theyve done.
Phoebe jump changes are amazing, though i think they should come up with some way of making it easier to just move caps (as in when moving home).
Fozziesov, though far from ideal, imo is much better than domsov. Definitely agree that they could do with spending some more time on it to polish and balance it better, but the core ideas are good.

And overall, EVE already has so much **** in it already. You dont need to add more to help create content. Sometimes balancing or changing stale existing content can do much more for the game.

I'd definitely say it will be worthwhile to stick around and see how the game changes as more random scrubs are added. I for one think it will be a good laugh. Many scrubs will still quit very fast, but some will stay, and join the community.

CCP still have plenty of time to work out any kinks in this new system before releasing it, and due to its nature, im sure they will keep a very close eye on it for balancing even after its out.

I have faith in CCP here.

#dicksOutForHarambe
Daylan Vokan
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#828 - 2016-09-01 09:53:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Daylan Vokan
Maybe CCP could take advantage of this now to alter the NPE to the better and to cripple the possible side effects of mass alts.

To get your max skill points on these Alpha's have them run all the tutorials on there racial side and award the skill points for completed sections of the tutorials. Does it matter that you will acquire them all in one go i doubt it but will have to make them work for it, just how many alts are people prepared to make each day when you have to run the tutorials for each and every one you make.

Just a thought.

Edit: Same as above but you get 1.5 / 2 mill sp's for the opportunities/ tutorials then the rest for completing sister alitura's epic arc. Makes making the alts a working progression not instant fleets.
Gunrunner1775
Empire Hooligans
#829 - 2016-09-01 09:53:43 UTC
ive read this, and thought long and hard about how I want to respond to this

EVE has been unique in this aspect of sand box shared single shard universe

I honestly think that the free to play mode was just one more nail in the coffin for the decline of the online game EverQuest.

I think this will be bad for EVE as well, for too many reasons, many of which have already been listed previously

If I understand the goal of this, its to attract more players with the chance to mess around in the game, try it out, interact with other players ect ect. then hopefully upgrade to full paying account

for the safety and health of the game.... I think this is possible, but I would say that all non-subscribing accounts that start out when this goes live... should be restricted to a "pocket universe" and not fully access to the rest of the Eve galaxy... a dozen or so solar systems, with variety of tools and stuff to learn the game.... with a one way wormhole exit out of this "region" to the regular universe of Eve online (drop em off right in Jita )

that is my suggestion, yes it would need some more fine tuneing and expansion of this idea, but that is the basics of it

I foresee too many issues that could be disruptive to the game

old accounts that players start back up come back in a restricted "alpha" mode and no restrictions on locations since they are already in the existing universe.. I'm only suggesting that any new accounts created after this goes live start in the new "pocket universe" and restricted to the pocket universe until they go paying account and able to move into new universe
Velores Prokhozai
Sad Frog Space Fighters
#830 - 2016-09-01 10:06:04 UTC
Drazz Caylen wrote:

Look at a current trial account, which has a few second spam prevention, and tell me why it's so bad for Alphas to be chat restricted but not for trials?

Ok, I did not know how current trial works. If chat cooldown works well then let it be. (Actually by "limited" I didn't mean can't chat at all Smile )



Drazz Caylen wrote:

This goes to any and all people by the way who have in all those pages roared something about what Alphas totally are not and never allowed to do, which trial accounts already can do.

For example on current 21 day trial you can't put some battleship blueprint to research 10/20 ME/TE for half of the year, because it will stuck there. But alpha will be just free slot for that kind of job.
Dex Cordell
EVE University
Ivy League
#831 - 2016-09-01 10:07:41 UTC
another thing after some more reading through...disable implants for alpha clones.
Fedo Otsolen
Doomheim
#832 - 2016-09-01 10:10:36 UTC
THIS IS AN INGAME EVENT. ITS A DRIFFTER INVASION! Bear
Skia Aumer
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#833 - 2016-09-01 10:11:51 UTC
In case you didnt know: F2P EVE is available right here, right now. Just extract your skill points at the end of the month and trade injectors for a PLEX. If managed right, you'll get some extra ISK for a bunch of Rifters.

So if there is some smart-ass exploit that becomes available with Alpha-clones, it is also certainly available anyway. In this regard Alpha-clones can not pose a threat.
Skia Aumer
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#834 - 2016-09-01 10:16:54 UTC
Gunrunner1775 wrote:
I foresee too many issues that could be disruptive to the game

Name a few.
Rendering
Doomheim
#835 - 2016-09-01 10:28:37 UTC
The security setting to Yellow is a bit unnecessary if the concern about suicide ganking is the reason. You need T2 guns on a Catalyst, for example, to be able to effectively gank anything larger than a Venture most of the time. Mechanically, you're gimped by the lack of T2 mod access on an Alpha account already making the yellow safety unneeded. With the lack of T2 mods, suicide gankers require more coordination between themselves, which is about as emergent of gameplay as the concept of suicide ganking is. Putting a paywall behind being able to play one of EVE's more notable sandbox gameplay aspects seems silly.
Algarion Getz
Aideron Corp
#836 - 2016-09-01 10:28:53 UTC
Velores Prokhozai wrote:
Ok, this is the things that I am woried about:

-Alpha accounts should be able to launch only one game instance per computer, point. Also you can't launch Alpha if already have Omega running.

-Alpha players must be limited to public communications, to prevent spamming. So if you want doing ISK doubling in Jita local please keep subscription. Also consider in this case "verified alpha" state for characters that have been subscribed to omega at least onece, "verified alpha" shoud have no restrictions in terms of public communication, but can lose that privilege if eula was violated.

-All "offline" professions should be also limited by some way. PI, T1 blueprints (production, research, copy),R&D agents, market orders, contracts - to prevent abusing by hundreds of alts. Maybe just double or triple industry tax/broker fee for alpha character so running all those jobs/orders would not be economically profitable in large scales, but newbros still be able to try build rifter from veldspar.

-Not shure about hisec gank and FW. If we can keep "one player - one human" nothing bad will happen there.

And the most sweet part - Wormhole Keepers
What if I will create thousands of characters and then logoff every one, in every wh system I can reach, sitting heron and probe launcher, and then at any time later I can login and scan down way to any wh system in universe in couple of minutes.
So I think Alpha clones are very cheap and imperfect - they must visit medical service once a week to keep them alive. If you want to live in wh you could have Astrahus(God bless Upwell) there. If you stay in space more than a week -> eject -> selfdestruct -> welcome to home station. And yes, no ship reimbursement, is it still game about cruel galaxy or what?

Hope I was heard. Thanks.

This.

CCP pls dont ignore feedback. The change to F2P isnt a simple cash grab like the skill injectors. Its an open heart surgery. Mistakes can kill the game.
Uba Stij
Doomheim
#837 - 2016-09-01 10:32:25 UTC
Titus Cole Dooley wrote:
Sad thing is no matter how much people don't like this change its still going to happen. we would have to have a real burn Jita 2 and then unsub like 10k players. never know maybe its just a cycle we will have to go through to keep the game going the way we want it.


There is far more positive/optimistic comments and views on this than you're willing to admit. Mostly because those people actually read the dev blog (reading comprehension is hard for you apparently), and used common sense.
Frank Pannon
DEFCON.
The Initiative.
#838 - 2016-09-01 10:38:42 UTC
Toobo wrote:
If this goes ahead (which seems like it will whatever we say), I actually think Alpha account should have accelerated training time, not slower one, or start with some of the basic skills already injected and trained to lvl 1.

It doesn't make sense that you want to attract F2P crowd who wants fast & cheap (actually free...) experience of the game, but they are stuck with very slow training time to use very basic (and limited) equipment.

I don't suppose it's CCP's vision to have missions of Alpha accounts swarming all areas of the space. Commercially I would imagine you'd want them to sub into Omega eventually.

Help them get into the action ASAP, with obvious and strict limitations that tells them what more cool things they can do if they subbed into Omega.

F2P or not, having to wait excruciating amount of time to train very basic skills to what is already hard-capped low levels is not conducive to attracting what I assume to be the target audience.

So again - get them into action and be able to hit the skill cap relatively fast, so they can enjoy the full Alpha experience as soon as possible, and the hard cap on SP could nudge them into upgrading to Omega (paid) accounts.

Otherwise I see loads of new players trying Alpha account and saying 'fock it this is taking forever to do anything' and just lose interest.



This makes sense, interesting point to consider.
Kierene Hilthene
Kierene Hilthene Corporation
#839 - 2016-09-01 10:39:51 UTC
I think we should be aware of the priorities of our content... I don't really see this as the end of the game, due to it's restricted nature. But can we keep motivation up long enough to tolerate these kinds of changes? People may opt to blame current subscription numbers to things like these. And people may tend to agree with them.
Desiderya
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
#840 - 2016-09-01 10:56:17 UTC
It was really odd to see Gallente having shield rigging on the skill list but Minmatar not having armor rigging. When I'm thinking of the frigate to cruiser lineup for Minmatar I would use 50% armor fits and 50% shield fits, so not having access to the skill reducing the drawback a bit feels odd.
Furthermore, Minmatar and Gallente EWAR skill lineup includes ECM, Weapon Disruption and TP (Minmatar) or Damps (GallentE) while Amarr and Caldari both have ECM and Weapon Disruption. This means two races have access to three types of EWAR while the other two only have access to two. Bonused ships aside, these two are not even exclusive. Either make them equally accessable to all or lock them to their race: Caldari (ECM), Minmatar (TP), Gallente (Damp), Amarr (TD/MD).

Ruthlessness is the kindness of the wise.