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Dev Blog: Introducing Clone States & the Future of Access to EVE

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Author
Winter Archipelago
Autumn Industrial Enterprises
#681 - 2016-09-01 01:25:42 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
EvilweaselSA wrote:

i will give you the easiest and most obvious one that you should have been able to figure out to whet your appetite for knowledge and self improvement: you get more than 3 injectors per plex


Really? How do you accomplish this magic?

8,760 hours in a year (non-leap year).
8,760/12 = 730 hours for your "average" month.

To get 4 extractors you will have to skill at about 2,740 SP/hour.

Implants? Well, the theoretical max there is 2,700/hour.

You are just short of covering your average monthly sub costs for the second month.

Further, your argument is basically a market timing argument. You'll be able to tell when selling skill injectors is going to be profitable 30 or so days in advance.

In the end, all you'll end up doing is covering your sub costs more or less once you incur that initial $1,495 cost (possibly $2,990) to start the subs.

Edit: And I don't recall the requirements for attribute enhancing implants, can those be trained on an Alpha account? If not, then you'll definitely spend nearly $3,000 on this scheme.

Teckos, you're taking each month as if it existed as an isolated island. They don't. You end up with a six-month cycle (if my memory serves me), where you get 3 extractions in the first month, followed by four extractions for the next five. It's somewhere around 3.85 extractions per month.

It's profitable right now by about 100 mil per month. Whether it stays that way is to be seen, as prices are quickly reaching an equilibrium.

For what it's worth, though, considering how closely the prices of Extractors, Injectors, and PLEX are tied to each other, I doubt we'll ever see it where you can't PLEX yourself via Extraction.

This is a rough estimated of the break-even points based on an 8-day extraction cycle for PLEX at various values. It's what I suspect Extractors and Injectors will be, at worst (that is, equilibrium with PLEX). I've been wrong before, though.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#682 - 2016-09-01 01:28:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
What are CCP going to do if the expected increase in players logged turns out to short term?

Certainly some people quit over the subscription price and make that known in the "why are you quitting?" questionnaire, but how many quit and leave no reason at all, how many of the those who don't comment quit because they don't like the idea of having to create their own content or can't deal with the basic premise of not being safe anywhere?

The reasons for Eve not having a larger subscriber base go far deeper than the cost of a sub, and tbh some of the development decisions made in the past have driven away many that CCP should have tried to retain; the present development direction may well do the same.

Personally I believe it to be a terrible idea on the scale of Incarna and a dipping of the toe into the stagnant waters of the "greed is good" leak of 2011.

*blames the EA hires and petitions for the return of CCP Soundwave Twisted*

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

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Hal Morsh
Doomheim
#683 - 2016-09-01 01:38:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Hal Morsh
Nicolai Serkanner wrote:
I can not believe CCP takes this path. One example: have multiple T1 ganker clones for free. Another one: have dozens of T1 mining alts emptying belts faster than they can spawn.

What are you thinking CCP?






Problem takes care of themselves?

Jenn aSide wrote:
Alpha clones must NOT be able to light any form of cyno. If not, every single low and null system will have a cloaky alpha clone sitting in it.

I am not normally against cloaky campers (i advocate just dealing with them if they decloak), but FREE cloaky campers? Hell no, every cloaky camper that exists represents a sub or plex and the opportunity costs associated with that. FREE cloakys destroy that.



It would be like premium ammo and my T95 in world of tanks. I laughed when people shot money at me, then it became free with no nerf. the pain.. THE PAIN!!!!

Oh, I perfectly understand, Hal Morsh — a mission like this requires courage, skill, and heroism… qualities you are clearly lacking. Have you forgotten you're one of the bloody immortals!?

Charsara
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#684 - 2016-09-01 01:39:55 UTC
Don't allow the Alpha clones into 0.0 and wormholes. Nullsec already has it's fair share of scrub alts parked around the map. Let them inhabit FW and lowsec if they want to pewpew.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#685 - 2016-09-01 01:42:54 UTC
EvilweaselSA wrote:
so with the ability to get to 5m sp, skill injector prices are going to crash as people can create a farm of 100 skillgoop bastards for free then only subscribe them to train + extract once its profitable

also, t1 production could not be more dead when you can scale t1 production jobs infinitely for free

Extraction farming seems doubtful unless PLEX crashes as well. If it doesn't then maintaining skillgoop accounts won't be a sustainable prospect without other isk income or incurring a real money cost.

And if people try that pushes PLEX prices up further away from making it workable.
Winter Archipelago
Autumn Industrial Enterprises
#686 - 2016-09-01 01:43:25 UTC
So, something I just noticed: Amarr and Gallente may train both Armor and Shield rigging, but Caldari and Minmatar are only able to train Shield Rigging. Any particular reason, or is that just an oversight?
Raithius
Creep Fleet Inc
#687 - 2016-09-01 01:46:46 UTC
The amount of hisec ganking that is going to take place is going to be real.

Or what if a corp wants to declare war but decides to use alphas for meat shields.

Or established alliances using this to completely #$!$ hisec for the lolz with no risk to their mains.

This is actually INSANE.
Bruce Destro
Backwater Resources and Distribution
The Banana Republic.
#688 - 2016-09-01 01:57:05 UTC
Disallowing skill extraction, cloaking cyno's and forcing safety of yellow or even green in highsec, with a limit of 3 alpha accounts (in addition to omega accounts) sounds pretty awesome. I will deffinitely have an army of venture pilots, making then each have an alt, and alts of my own to boost them. very much like this idea.
Maraner
The Executioners
#689 - 2016-09-01 01:59:25 UTC
I have to admit to some concerns around high sec, hopefully will get sorted by the devs. But for the most part for first thoughts about this change is..

NOM NOM

Think of all the noobs to either have fun with in supportive (eve uni etc) ways or to just kick to death....should make most of us happy.

Certainly logging into a server pop of +100k would be interesting.
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
Brave Collective
#690 - 2016-09-01 02:05:04 UTC
Maraner wrote:
I have to admit to some concerns around high sec, hopefully will get sorted by the devs. But for the most part for first thoughts about this change is..

NOM NOM

Think of all the noobs to either have fun with in supportive (eve uni etc) ways or to just kick to death....should make most of us happy.

Certainly logging into a server pop of +100k would be interesting.


Yeay 100% tidi in all of New Eden Big smile

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

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beakerax
Pator Tech School
#691 - 2016-09-01 02:14:02 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Certainly some people quit over the subscription price and make that known in the why are you quitting questionnaire, but how many quit and leave no reason at all, how many of the those who don't comment quit because they don't like the idea of having to create their own content or can't deal with the basic premise of not being safe anywhere?
How many people unsub intending to win Eve temporarily and never come back at all? Lowering the barrier for them to log in could be very good.
Voxinian
#692 - 2016-09-01 02:20:49 UTC
beakerax wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Certainly some people quit over the subscription price and make that known in the why are you quitting questionnaire, but how many quit and leave no reason at all, how many of the those who don't comment quit because they don't like the idea of having to create their own content or can't deal with the basic premise of not being safe anywhere?
How many people unsub intending to win Eve temporarily and never come back at all? Lowering the barrier for them to log in could be very good.
For a large part it is about new players getting attached ot their ingame pixels in order to pay/work for a sub. The 5mil SP barrier is very good length to get attached to your ingame pixels an meanwhile get some understanding of the game mechanics and the unfurgiving nature of the game.
EvilweaselSA
GoonCorp
Goonswarm Federation
#693 - 2016-09-01 02:26:22 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
EvilweaselSA wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:

Yeah, exactly where is the error?

BTW, look at what you wrote:

Skill Injectors are going to crash!

But....skill injectors will be profitable enough for you to log in.

Which one is it?

i will give you the easiest and most obvious one that you should have been able to figure out to whet your appetite for knowledge and self improvement: you get more than 3 injectors per plex


Really? How do you accomplish this magic?

8,760 hours in a year (non-leap year).
8,760/12 = 730 hours for your "average" month.

To get 4 extractors you will have to skill at about 2,740 SP/hour.

Implants? Well, the theoretical max there is 2,700/hour.

You are just short of covering your average monthly sub costs for the second month.

Further, your argument is basically a market timing argument. You'll be able to tell when selling skill injectors is going to be profitable 30 or so days in advance.

In the end, all you'll end up doing is covering your sub costs more or less once you incur that initial $1,495 cost (possibly $2,990) to start the subs.

Edit: And I don't recall the requirements for attribute enhancing implants, can those be trained on an Alpha account? If not, then you'll definitely spend nearly $3,000 on this scheme.

i see one of the cleverer people in the thread pointed out to you fractions exist so i will now mock you for forgetting plex exist which is a new and hilarious dumbosity
EvilweaselSA
GoonCorp
Goonswarm Federation
#694 - 2016-09-01 02:27:10 UTC
Eli Stan wrote:
EvilweaselSA wrote:
it occurs to me that freighters are another ideal thing for this (well, besides that they will now die en masse)

you train up your npc freighter alt, fit bulkheads on it, and then let it go alpha

you lose the ship bonuses but whatever, you can still use bulkheads and as long as you're still in the hull you can fly for free
But once you dock you can never undock.

you are quite right on this, i missed the undocking part the first read-through
45thtiger 0109
Already Replaced.
#695 - 2016-09-01 02:27:48 UTC
CCP Falcon wrote:
Greetings capsuleers!

Today, we are happy to announce a new change that’s coming to EVE Online in November that will fundamentally change New Eden, and how our pilots access it via the EVE client.

In short, cloning scientists in New Eden have developed a new method of cloning that revolves around two new clone states, Alpha and Omega. Omega clones will be familiar to all our current players, and will operate just like a subscribed character does today. Alpha clones will be accessible for free, without subscription, and will be capable of training an assigned set of skills themed to a character’s race.

A Dev Blog has been published by Team Size Matters today with more details on this feature, and a questions and answers section where we look to clear up some initial concerns and questions regarding this change.


Well done CCP its great that finally something had to be done to get more people involved into EvE online.

I agree what CCP is doing as I have said in my thread it was a concerning factor seen the numbers decline in EvE and CCP had to do something to get the numbers back up.

And this way introducing Alpha and Omega Clones into the game was going to be that option.

The F2P model you use the Alpha clone.

Or if you keep subscribing you stay in your Omega clone how simple is that.


BTW I know of people who would like to join eve and they told me that its a cost factor and they live in the Philippines and I will let them know that EvE will have a F2P model coming in November 2016.

Here is an example of the cost for me in AUD Vs USD $150.00 USD = 198.91AUD that is nearly $50.00 more for me for the yearly subs which I am happy to pay for.

Congratz CCP you have made my day Big smile


**You Have to take the good with the bad and the bad with the good.

Welcome to EvE OnLiNe**

Kusum Fawn
Perkone
Caldari State
#696 - 2016-09-01 02:28:06 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
EvilweaselSA wrote:
it occurs to me that freighters are another ideal thing for this (well, besides that they will now die en masse)

you train up your npc freighter alt, fit bulkheads on it, and then let it go alpha

you lose the ship bonuses but whatever, you can still use bulkheads and as long as you're still in the hull you can fly for free


You can't fly the freighter once that happens.

Or maybe you should start calling people dumb *****. Roll



It does specifically say that if you dock you cant undock, but with pos you dont have to dock.

however that does ignore the whole gank catalyst spam that will happen. but for belt hauling orcas i dont see why that couldnt work.

Its not possible to please all the people all the time, but it sure as hell is possible to Displease all the people, most of the time.

EvilweaselSA
GoonCorp
Goonswarm Federation
#697 - 2016-09-01 02:31:27 UTC  |  Edited by: EvilweaselSA
the other massive errors that teckos seems unable to grasp are that people already bastardfarm the **** out of skillgoop with 100+ but the start-up cost prevents there from being enough people doing it to really kill margins (though enough that they basically set the price), that it takes a surprisingly low amount of isk for this to be quite profitable per play-hour on an industrial scale, and that eve attracts precisely the sort of nutbars who take anything to its logical extreme

this is not counting that he literally forgot plex existed halfway through arguments over plexing accounts for profit

really it is amazing just how little he gets the finance side of the game, "eve is full of nutbars who will minmax the **** out of things even with tremendous effort" is, like, a foundational economic principle in eve most people figure out within a week
Ocean Ormand
Bagel and Lox
#698 - 2016-09-01 02:35:33 UTC
Well I suppose this can be looked at in a positive light:

CCP has killed almost all the sacred cows - they opened a microtransaction shop, they are selling SP, and now they are going full on ftp. There is only one thing left of the former eve no-nos -opening up jove space. After this ftp lark fails, and ccp opens jove space, ccp will be out of gimicks. Their only hope will be to actually give us interesting and entertaining content or to turn off the lights.
Niko Lorenzio
United Eve Directorate
#699 - 2016-09-01 02:53:44 UTC
So I can finally cancel my last sub and stop supporting this nonsense and still stay connected? Awesome.

The CSM XI Election are now open until March 25th, 2016. Consider Niko Lorenzio for CSM XI.

CSM matters, your voice matters, your vote matters!

Sootsia
HIgh Sec Care Bears
Brothers of Tangra
#700 - 2016-09-01 03:02:26 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Titus Tallang wrote:
Multiple logins from Omega and Alpha accounts at the same time must be prohibited, and circumventing this must be a bannable offense.

Otherwise I (and I'm sure many others) will just start multiboxing 10 griffins (at a total cost of 2 million isk, so I don't even have to pay any real attention to those clients) in addition to my main in every single fight, and I'm not sure if that's really the gameplay you are looking for. Don't turn this into "who can micromanage the most accounts at the same time", please.

PS: Apart from that, I'm cautiously optimistic. Free multiboxing is my primary issue.


Griffin are hard to multibox without automation. TRISTANS (and other drone ships, hell, any ship that can assign drones) are not.

I agree, multiple log ins across clone state must be prohibited. nothing wrong with multi boxing, but if we can multibox with alphas I WILL be putting a whole bunch of new drone ships in null sec anoms. My Inflationary pressure will blot out the Sun over CCP Quant's office window.



I actually hope such as you do, the killmails of such ships will will be glorious as you cannot cloak, therefore can easlily be probed down and blapped.