These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE Information Portal

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Dev blog: Command Bursts and the New World of Fleet Boosting

First post First post
Author
Cpt Hidoshi Ambraelle
Achura research Industrial Development Corp LLC.
#61 - 2016-08-29 16:39:21 UTC
Absolutely the FIRST thing to say about this is IT'S TERRIBLE.
Here is why
I currently have 2 Rorq's If your currently planned changes go ahead As soon as the November expansion hits I will Reprocess them Plus My Orca as I would rather mine with NO Boosts at all than to put a rorq on grid NO MATTER what you do to it.
I would Rather put the capital parts from the 2x Rorq and 1x Orca towards some more dreads to sell than to keep and use them.
Rorq's currently cost what 2bill why in hell would someone want to try and boost with it on grid while trying to micro manage everything else.
Retar Aveymone
DJ's Retirement Fund
Goonswarm Federation
#62 - 2016-08-29 16:39:50 UTC
Thanks for the previous answer, very helpful. Next question: how fast do these modules cycle? Is this going to be something where the fleet booster can keep re-applying to the fleet or is it going to be more like a 60s cycle and you'd better make it count.
Mr Tesla
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#63 - 2016-08-29 16:41:02 UTC
This is terrible news. Rip
Reinhardt Kreiss
TetraVaal Tactical Group
#64 - 2016-08-29 16:41:23 UTC
So boosting is changing from an alt only affair to a fleet thing with redundancy built in. We can safely assume that fleets will incorporate several boosters per type not only because of the sphere radius but also because there's going to be losses.

Isn't this system that relies on an AOE range check that affects targets that possibly already get that bonus from someone else who might/will have different skills going to cause massive lag issues when you get a whole bunch of ships and boosters close together?
Irregessa
Obfuscation and Reflections
#65 - 2016-08-29 16:42:10 UTC
SurrenderMonkey wrote:
Zanar Skwigelf wrote:
Why were the mining yield boosts replaced by a mining crystal destruction boost?

Crystals are a dime a dozen, or am I missing something?


There was never a "yield" boost. There was a cycle time boost, a cap cost boost, and a range boost.

The cycle time and capacitor cost reduction were rolled into one boost, and the crystal volatility one is new.






There was never a yield boost. What there presently is, is a 2%/yield bonus from the Mining Foreman skill, which gets replaced by a 15% bonus by the mining foreman implant. Not having something to replace that results in a 15% reduction in rocky ore yield from boosted miners as they are now. Ice was never impacted because of the size of ice slabs.
RainReaper
Bras-Tek Industries
Nefatari Union
#66 - 2016-08-29 16:42:10 UTC
...So we are geting temporary buffs added? uhhh....im kinda unsure how i feel here.
Gonna have to try it out on the test server once its there for testing.
On a happier note! I see we are geting a new Industrial command ship!
It seems like it gives weaker boosts than the Orca, is it gonna be smaller than an orca? Also what is the estimated build cost gonna be? Does it use capital components to build? Can it compress ore on the go?
Retar Aveymone
DJ's Retirement Fund
Goonswarm Federation
#67 - 2016-08-29 16:42:32 UTC
Reinhardt Kreiss wrote:
So boosting is changing from an alt only affair to a fleet thing with redundancy built in. We can safely assume that fleets will incorporate several boosters per type not only because of the sphere radius but also because there's going to be losses.

Isn't this system that relies on an AOE range check that affects targets that possibly already get that bonus from someone else who might/will have different skills going to cause massive lag issues when you get a whole bunch of ships and boosters close together?

depends on the code, and my understanding is that the physics engine was specifically rewritten to allow for this sort of aoe effect without dying in a fire
Vidork Drako
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#68 - 2016-08-29 16:44:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Vidork Drako
Its a very nice change because offgrid boost had no sense. Great job. Lol

Now a question who will come back again and again until we got an answer :

Q : Will you refund all SP currently allocated in Leadership skills?


Lets us know please. A simple yes or no will be enough.

Another question :

Q : I see you gave a weapon timer to booster, will they also receive a suspect time ?

Regards
CCP Masterplan
C C P
C C P Alliance
#69 - 2016-08-29 16:44:33 UTC
Scotsman Howard wrote:

Finally, TIDI

How will these function in TIDI (timers as well as game performance). Will the timers be tied to the server or real time? In large fleet battles where we will see many backups (now that that is a thing that you do not need to worry about positioning for) you have basically introduced a smartbomb that is exponetially larger than any other in the game. Now, in order to cause TIDI to anchor a citadel, all you need is to undock a fleet with command links and just start activating them. This is now a valid tactic that is allowable since having multiple boosters active at once is encouraged.


The module cycle time and the boost lifetime once applied will both be subject to time dilation effects.

"This one time, on patch day..."

@ccp_masterplan  |  Team Five-0: Rewriting the law

Retar Aveymone
DJ's Retirement Fund
Goonswarm Federation
#70 - 2016-08-29 16:45:24 UTC
Also: what happens when I got a 20% armor hp bonus, got my armor shot down to 10% of my boosted armor, then lost the bonus? Do I have 10% of my unboosted armor, do I have 0% armor but still structure, or does my ship explode due to having negative armor?
TigerXtrm
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#71 - 2016-08-29 16:46:09 UTC
Very interesting changes.

Only thing that immediately stood out to me though; if you're going to completely change what the squad, wing and fleet skills do, why not rename them entirely to reflect their new purpose? I mean, Fleet Command in the new situation will have very little to do with being in charge of a fleet anymore (and will have no affect on hierarchy). So just change the name to something more fitting.

And did I just read right that the Rorqual is getting multiple new tools to play with? Interesting. Can't wait to see more :D

My YouTube Channel - EVE Tutorials & other game related things!

My Website - Blogs, Livestreams & Forums

CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#72 - 2016-08-29 16:47:49 UTC
Vidork Drako wrote:
Its a very nice change because offgrid boost had no sense. Great job. Lol

Now a question who will come back again and again until we got an answer :

Q : Will you refund all SP currently allocated in Leadership skills?


Lets us know please. A simple yes or no will be enough.

No. The skills will all continue to exist (under slightly different names) and will impact the same type of gameplay, so there are no plans to refund any skills with this change.

Vidork Drako wrote:

Another question :
Q : I see you gave a weapon timer to booster, will they also receive a suspect time ?

Nope, just a weapons timer.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie

Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#73 - 2016-08-29 16:48:12 UTC
ITS HAPPENING!

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value

Steroidastroid Ormand
#74 - 2016-08-29 16:48:21 UTC
1) 15km range is a joke? Aren't you forgetting a 0 at the end?

2) This whole idea is ok as long as you offer a way to reimburse players who want to trash their characters after this patch. For example make all command-related skill points reallocate-able.
Juliette Asanari
Voodoo Children
#75 - 2016-08-29 16:48:29 UTC
Quick question: Interaction of Boosts with Crimewatch? Similar/Identical to Logi?
Jenn aSide
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#76 - 2016-08-29 16:49:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Hey CCP. This thread will be a monument. A Monument to the rage one gets when you spend YEARS giving people some unbalanced BS stuff (again, for YEARS!!!) , then finally fix it to be less unbalanced. This is WHY you don't give people stuff like the old off grid boosts, once it's there , people not only feel entitled to it, they build entire gameplay scenarios around it.


I've already seen 3 people post about leaving the game. WTF are you going to do without their cumulative $45 per month CCP, tell me that? Twisted
Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#77 - 2016-08-29 16:51:28 UTC
Steroidastroid Ormand wrote:
1) 15km range is a joke? Aren't you forgetting a 0 at the end?


You're likely not factoring in the effect skills will have.
Irregessa
Obfuscation and Reflections
#78 - 2016-08-29 16:52:11 UTC
Will there be a replacement for the 15% yield bonus that miners presently get from the booster having Mining Foreman 5 and Mining Foreman Mindlink?

(It appeared that only direct question like this were getting answered, so essentially have reposted).

Drazz Caylen
Team-Pyro Industries
#79 - 2016-08-29 16:52:36 UTC
It is good news to see we're going away from off-fleet ships boosting happily on an alt account. That being said, here are my thoughts about the disclosed process and additional opinions;

>> Although probing down and catching off-grid boosters under the current system is possible and can be very powerful...
Sorry for getting offtopic right off the bat, but this only works on the principle thinking that the booster is an alt account where the player only runs one monitor in case the ship always remains stationary. There are too many possibilities for people who run software and hardware solutions which makes early notification of combat probes possible without going into the botting and scripting category. In short; the moment you see probes on d-scan, you warp away. There is no way for an attentive player to get caught by combat probes if s/he isn't already engaged otherwise and is not in a huge and clunky ship that isn't already pre-aligned. This is an inherent problem with combat probes which I hope to see addressed in the future.

>> Command Bursts will have a clear visual effect indicating the area in which ships have received the buff.
If that visual buff does not include any overview indicators, it's only half as useful.
Also, good luck trying to figure out just by visuals alone what is boosted if you're in a bubble, or even multiple. A range of 15km base boost is likely going to get swallowed. It will end as usual, in a zoomed out effect blur. The only reason I can see who should in theory be targeted first is when there are multiple boosters on the field, deciding which boost is more important to take down first. Until that decision has been made, chances are the closest booster is already damaged enough to the point where it doesn't make sense to switch targets.
And please, for the love of all hardware, make a checkbox in the options so we can disable the boosting effects.

>> Command pilots will receive a combat log message that indicates how many allied ships have been impacted by each burst.
Not going to question usefulness of combat log spam, but I'd like to have tactical map sphere range like weapon and ECM ranges when hovering the Burst module. That way I will always be able to see how many fleet members I catch in my range of influence. If you do not have that already planned to make, I direly suggest you do.

>> ...Armor, Shield (formerly known as Siege), Information, Skirmish, and Mining.
Mind if you change "skirmish" to "navigation" at that point then and replace the ewar bonus with something else?

>> These modules must be loaded with ammo in order to activate, and the ammo choices determine which bonus the module will provide to nearby fleetmates.
Suggestion; change the ammo to something new, being a high-slot script. That doesn't affect reload time but certainly makes more sense than using... well... "ammo." I don't even want to think about what kind of explanation will be tried to reason using "ammo" for a "physical stat boost". Sure, maybe it's more like a battery to help out with the capacitor... at which point we are at auxiliary modules, which require much more cap if running out of charges. See?

>>When activated, the Command Burst will apply bonuses to all fleetmates within range of the boosting ship, in a sizable sphere.
Since you said you get rid of passive bonuses from skills and fleet hierarchy, I suggest you implement some of that back because else you have no limit over what you can boost. Where is the hardcap? Didn't we recently got a hard-cap for assisted drones/fighters? It should have diminishing returns exceeding the amount of players you can legally boost by your leadership skills, or these leadership skills increase the amount at which diminishing returns kick in.

What is even more crucial here; what is it good to have skilled for fleet sizes now? The main reason was to have fleet boosts to as many people as possible. Since you remove that, and emphasize on "skillful play" now, you might as well remove skill based fleet size restrictions altogether to - quoting you - "significantly reduce barrier of entry".
Sounds like a big round of returned skillpoints to me. If not, you better give them a much more interesting purpose, else a lot of us will remain dumbfounded.

>> their ship will receive a timed bonus lasting between 60 and 130 seconds that continues to operate even if they move out of range, or if the boosting ship dies
While it makes sense, I'd advise to have the timer being reduced in half every time the ship enters warp, including acceleration gates.

_______

Second post incoming with comments to posters.
MidnightWyvern
The Bosena Accords
#80 - 2016-08-29 16:53:41 UTC
Linus Gorp wrote:
MidnightWyvern wrote:
Triggered Liberal wrote:
Querns wrote:
Triggered Liberal wrote:
So RIP my entire community. This seems like a concerted attack on my alliance.

Your community is based on offgrid boosting?


Yup. We mine while we work. The boosts were what brought us together. Now having to have an orca per belt will tear us apart.

Remember the part of the DevBlog that mentioned the new Porpoise Industrial Command Ship? I'm will to bet that's going to be a BC sized ship that can fit Mining Foreman Links. I'm willing to bet they already expected Orca spam to be untenable and that's why they're adding a new ship to balance that out.

Obvioulsy that's 100% speculation, but why else would they need to add another Industrial Command Ship?

They said already that we're getting an ORE battlecruiser (cost ~40 to 50 million) for exactly that reason.

Ah, thanks for the info!

Rattati Senpai noticed us! See you in the next FPS!

Alts: Saray Wyvern, Mobius Wyvern (Dust 514)