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June release 118.6 - General feedback

First post First post
Author
Seliah
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#221 - 2016-06-29 14:27:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Seliah
I like the idea of having a docking animation (as long as it doesn't artificially lengthen the docking / undocking / ship swapping process), but I think the current animation isn't very well done. The ship goes to its parking with a very linear speed without anything really happening, it doesn't make me feel anything. I don't feel like coming back to a safe place after a long and hard fight, I don't feel like entering an unknown place where I'm going to be doing my business, etc.

I think it could be a lot better with some minor adjustments : make the ship speed less linear, have it take a slight turn on its way to the parking spot, see the thrusters turn off, or even better, have a little animation on the ship like when exiting warp, some manutention ships and drones arriving and hovering around my ship, ready to do whatever they'll have to do once I'm docked, etc. Of course, this would require a bit more work, but I don't think the animation in its current state is really doing the trick.

All that being said, docking must also be a quick process : as people said, sometimes you just want to swap ships instantly and undock again, so unless you make the gameplay decision of making the docking process longer (and more frustrating), there should be an elegant option to either turn off completely the docking animation, or skip it with a simple click or something.

Hope the feedback helps.

o>
Tokuarie
The Pioneers
#222 - 2016-06-29 14:30:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Tokuarie
Please, let us turn off the docking\undocking animation, thank you.
Kremlath
Cayman Finance
#223 - 2016-06-29 14:33:51 UTC
CCP Darwin wrote:
Kremlath wrote:
1) No, we're not adding options to the options menu because that makes things 'complex'

I commented to point out that requesting an additional option toggle is not as helpful as explaining why the feature bothers you, because the graphics software team (my team) is currently working on simplifying the graphics settings options.

A different team than mine is responsible for the docking animation, and despite that they haven't posted here, they are reading all of the feedback.



CCP Darwin, I'm not trying to get on anyone's case, but to me it seems pretty clear why the docking/undocking feature is bothering people, and was at the time you posted in the thread. It is really interfering with my enjoyment of the game, and has the same effect on many others it seems. I was just frustrated that nobody seemed to be bothered responding to the main issue raised in the thread - like asking for feedback and then ignoring it, I get enough of that in my RL job P

Having a toggle would be just a workaround really, if there was one then there would never be a reason to turn it back on. A real fix it just to remove it and revert back to the unbroken way it was. As long as there is some way to avoid it though I'll be happy enough.

Thanks o/
Kaivarian Coste
Whale Patrol
#224 - 2016-06-29 14:35:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Kaivarian Coste
Okay, now I'm physically ill from the docking/undocking. My eyes literally hurt.
Duke Garland
Niflheimr Inc.
#225 - 2016-06-29 14:42:09 UTC
Sgt Ocker wrote:

Yeah I just logged in 3 characters, all of which have different sets of challenges.

One was interesting - Complete a Sansha Incursion. I mean seriously, setting challenges an individual character has no control over completing?

[...]

Kill 5 Drifters - Another one that due to the randomness of these "challenges" will be difficult for many to complete.

My other toon has to kill 50(!) drifters. As for the incursion, while that is certainly a hefty task on paper your individual contribution can be as little as one site. So as long as one of the big HQ communities successfully kills the mothership and you (as such) will be rewarded with CONCORD LP I suppose that will also count towards that scope mission.
Or maybe as much as clearing an asteroid belt of incursion rats already triggers this, there is no way for me to tell other than suggesting you try that in an incursion's staging (< important!) system with something like a well-tanked BC. Clearing a belt at least used to credit you with a CONCORD LP reward.
Kaivarian Coste
Whale Patrol
#226 - 2016-06-29 14:42:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Kaivarian Coste
THANK YOU CPP! I JUST DIED WHILE UNDOCKING THANKS TO YOUR STUPID CAMERA.

edit: Now that I've calmed down, the camera doesn't allow you to see any bookmarks / celestial bodies ahead of you to warp to. In low/null, this can be death. This is a very poor feature.
CCP Larrikin
C C P
C C P Alliance
#227 - 2016-06-29 14:47:44 UTC
Sgt Ocker wrote:
How effective was it compared to prior to yesterday? When carriers for the first time in their history didn't need to be in a blob (big or small) to be effectively used in PVP..


In real terms, the nerf to general light fighters is approximately a 20% damage reduction versus destroyer and smaller targets, and a 10% damage reduction to Battlecruisers/Battleships (while they have charges). This is completely dependent on fits , tackle and circumstances. In some cases it's worse than this, in others it's better. For example, once you've run out of charges, general light fighters apply a lot better than pre-118.6.

As we said in our first communications about the new fighters that where deployed with Citadels and started taking your feedback, the balance of the new fighters and capitals would need tweeking. The 118.6 patch is the start of that process, but by no means the end.

We had the opinion (and the data since the citadels patch backs it up) that general light fighters could alpha out small targets too well with their heavy rocket salvo, especially combined with the networked sensor array's bonus to locking speed. Given the excellent application of the old heavy rocket salvo ability there was little incentive to fit target painters or webifiers.
Additionally, there is some thematic discontinuance with the heavy rocket salvo having better application than fighter guns.

Post-118.6, carriers can still apply damage quite well to small targets. They also have options with the space superiority fighters, which while do a lot less damage to sub-capitals, can apply incredibly well. Your choices of fit are more important after the 118.6 patch.

We take a lot of time to read the feedback forum posts here, tweetfleet slack (o/ #capitals m8s), the capital focus group, the CSM, and various other community groups. Player feedback is incredibly important and influential to the design process. We don't always reply, and we're sorry about that.

Game Designer | Team Phenomenon | https://twitter.com/CCP_Larrikin

Tao Dolcino
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#228 - 2016-06-29 14:52:35 UTC
This docking animation is supposed to be immersive, i guess.
So ok, let's talk about immersion : each ship boarding a station is entering a HUGE cathedral-like hall where even the biggest battleships look tiny, all that to be suspended mid air, then there is this very narrow band of metal leading to what i guess must be your bedroom ???? all that implying that all of your crew (yes there is crew in EVE) stay in the spaceship ? And then in this disproportionate private cathedral just allowing you to reach your bed, there are two giant tv monitors spamming you with advertising ????
Is that your version of immersion ? Does that appear even slightly realistic, believable to any of you ? And this scene is repeated for each ship entering in station ? And what if you own many ships and want to bord another one ? You suddenly see yourself arriving AGAIN in the station with the new ship ????
No, the truth is that the station graphics have always been very poorly designed in EVE, because it's not logical.
Anyone with half a brain would design something similar to what we have nowadays on earth, and take inspiration from airports or seaports.
They just made some lazy 3d, and then put some generations of fluff on it to try to make us forget that it's poorly designed from the origin. What level of competence is needed to make a simple translation of an object in a 3d software ? Because, there is absolutely nothing else happening in this scene. Even me who is not at all a professional can do it.
At least, before they "improve" EVE, in station, i could choose to have a 2d picture which would not interfere with my gameplayEvil

PS : and about gameplay, the very worst is indeed the undocking animation. It's catastrophic in a PvP situation (meaning always, potentially).
Kalpel
KBM
#229 - 2016-06-29 14:52:38 UTC
Sophia Mileghere wrote:
CCP please stop wasting time and ressources for useless/bad things like the docking camera. Maybe skip the work at these things and use the free ressources for the Ingame Browser.


^^^ exactly this ^^^

CCP needs to stop doing worthless things like this new undock / docking BS, and hire some real content designers

You failed to target nothing! ≡v≡ online ... (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

Varcutii Renalard
#230 - 2016-06-29 14:53:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Varcutii Renalard
Dear Camera team in the Art department. I personally, don't mind it too much. But i have friends now who're getting sick. Could you please provide an off switch in preferences for the forcefully animated camera docking & undocking feature? It'd be perfect if this stopped it from moving at star gates too

Whenever, anywhere in eve you forcefully move the camera you mess with people's inner ear and sense of balance. Then they get sick, or dizzy. Could you once and for all stop forcing the movement of the camera? Please? In the hanger, or when using a stargate.

I just don't want the camera forcefully moving around -at all-. The new Hanger thing is another episode of a feature being forced on people and making them nauseous.
Eli Stan
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#231 - 2016-06-29 14:58:48 UTC
Hello camera people at CCP. o7

I would like to add my voice to those reporting motion sickness issues resulting from the docking animation. I cannot explain why it happens, I can only report that it does. I do notice there's a stutter to the animation rather than the smoother flow I'm used to, but I cannot say whether that has any bearing on the issue.

As a workaround, I have enable the captain's quarters in stations and made my inventory window really big in citadels so as to block my view.

I would prefer to have my normal ship view while docked, however. It's about the only time I ever see my pretty SKINs.
Maker Atavuli
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#232 - 2016-06-29 15:08:58 UTC
The new animation on login was novel the first time I saw it. However after every docking, or ship change! Please don't force us to watch this EVERY time. I get sick like many others here I don't know why but I do. We are not asking for something unreasonable. We merely want to not get motion sickness from our favorite game. If however your trying to drive yet more players away well call it OP SUCCESS! If you want to speed up the transition to Citadels you could leave that animation in the stations and outposts and NOT in the new Citadels. Do that and check the numbers in a week no one will live in a station then. Get it together and listen to your player base, you remember us the thousands of people that pay your salary.

I am NOT crazy they made me take my medication this morning!

Norrin Ellis
Venture Racing
#233 - 2016-06-29 15:30:22 UTC
I'd like to thank CCP for taking me back to patch days of old that were always nightmarish and resulted in all kinds of broken things. With the event NPCs, I now get to go tediously reconfigure my overview for each tab preset! While not as tedious as reconfiguring all the game settings--a common side effect of patches in the old days--it still makes me feel a bit nostalgic.

On the bright side, that cinematic docking sequence every time we change ships works perfectly.

I'd give this more than two enthusiastic thumbs up, but I only have two thumbs.
Sentient Blade
Crisis Atmosphere
Coalition of the Unfortunate
#234 - 2016-06-29 15:35:03 UTC
CCP Larrikin wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:
How effective was it compared to prior to yesterday? When carriers for the first time in their history didn't need to be in a blob (big or small) to be effectively used in PVP..


In real terms, the nerf to general light fighters is approximately a 20% damage reduction versus destroyer and smaller targets, and a 10% damage reduction to Battlecruisers/Battleships (while they have charges). This is completely dependent on fits , tackle and circumstances. In some cases it's worse than this, in others it's better. For example, once you've run out of charges, general light fighters apply a lot better than pre-118.6.

As we said in our first communications about the new fighters that where deployed with Citadels and started taking your feedback, the balance of the new fighters and capitals would need tweeking. The 118.6 patch is the start of that process, but by no means the end.

We had the opinion (and the data since the citadels patch backs it up) that general light fighters could alpha out small targets too well with their heavy rocket salvo, especially combined with the networked sensor array's bonus to locking speed. Given the excellent application of the old heavy rocket salvo ability there was little incentive to fit target painters or webifiers.
Additionally, there is some thematic discontinuance with the heavy rocket salvo having better application than fighter guns.

Post-118.6, carriers can still apply damage quite well to small targets. They also have options with the space superiority fighters, which while do a lot less damage to sub-capitals, can apply incredibly well. Your choices of fit are more important after the 118.6 patch.

We take a lot of time to read the feedback forum posts here, tweetfleet slack (o/ #capitals m8s), the capital focus group, the CSM, and various other community groups. Player feedback is incredibly important and influential to the design process. We don't always reply, and we're sorry about that.



From my admittedly limited testing, I'm finding the damage of the heavy salvos to be quite anemic now, leading to more spamming of the F3 key.

I did just try spamming guns and missile volly's against a T1 frig orbiting at 2,500 m/s with a 250m sig radius and was less than thrilled with the results, I dare say a interceptor would mitigate significantly more damage.

The problem, to my mind, isn't fixed in that they can't blap light targets, it's that it's leaving a carrier, a travelling battle fortress, significantly reduced self protection vs smaller more irritating targets such as frigates and interdictors, while costing a minimum 2 and a half billion.

Personally, I think a balance step was skipped that would have given capitals a high-slot point defense module capable of easily taking out anything below a cruiser by itself, just like modern aircraft carriers pack their own close in weapons systems, mounted miniguns etc to destroy anything which gets too close but can't be responded to by aircraft in time.
Mesacc
New Big Dog Mining
#235 - 2016-06-29 15:39:57 UTC
2005 player here. This will most likely be my last post since my subscription runs out in a day or 2. I cancelled 2 accounts after the removal of the old camera and will not be resubscribing until the new camera is brought up to the quality of the old one. Lack of custom tracking position and tracking camera snap speed along with zoom acceleration are my biggest issues and the fact that these are being ignored while you work on useless docking animations that are clearly hated by the player base does not make my returning look promising. I hope you get your priorities in order because I would love to play EVE for another 10 years.
Maris-Brood
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#236 - 2016-06-29 15:43:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Maris-Brood
Market in Jita is laggy. will not allow me to update orders.
Needa3
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#237 - 2016-06-29 15:48:51 UTC
Rexeva wrote:
CCP Darwin wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:
7 pages in 12 hours and much of it requesting ONE (docking animations - ON / OFF) thing be altered.

Our focus with the settings menu right now is on reducing complexity, rather than adding it. Generally, we won't add a toggle for a new graphic feature unless it is too heavy for low-end machines, and even then we'd prefer to tie it to an existing setting.

However, your feedback about what you do or don't like about the docking animation can help direct future iteration on it, so if it bothers you, please let us know specifically why.


I THOUGHT WE DID IN THIS THREAD -MAYBE YOU SHOULD READ IT !!!




THIS
Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine
In Tea We Trust
#238 - 2016-06-29 15:50:18 UTC
CCP Darwin wrote:
Kremlath wrote:
1) No, we're not adding options to the options menu because that makes things 'complex'

I commented to point out that requesting an additional option toggle is not as helpful as explaining why the feature bothers you, because the graphics software team (my team) is currently working on simplifying the graphics settings options.

A different team than mine is responsible for the docking animation, and despite that they haven't posted here, they are reading all of the feedback.

It's the accessibility team you need to have involved in this. I don't know how much more clearly this can be said without insulting somebody.
Rexeva
Doomheim
#239 - 2016-06-29 16:04:11 UTC
Top Yourself wrote:
CCP Darwin wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:
7 pages in 12 hours and much of it requesting ONE (docking animations - ON / OFF) thing be altered.

Our focus with the settings menu right now is on reducing complexity, rather than adding it. Generally, we won't add a toggle for a new graphic feature unless it is too heavy for low-end machines, and even then we'd prefer to tie it to an existing setting.

However, your feedback about what you do or don't like about the docking animation can help direct future iteration on it, so if it bothers you, please let us know specifically why.

Ok, I will.

I have Autism, specifically the kind of ASD that used to be called "Aspergers syndrome" and can be referred to as "high-functioning". None of these are really labels I have an easy time identifying with, but it may help you understand my issues.

One of the symptoms of my condition is that I get sensory overloads. A very simplistic description of this is that lights, noises, lots of change in the scene, the need to repeatedly re-focus on different parts of the scene and lack of control over that scene will cause me to have an unpleasant experience. The actual experience can be discomfort, fatigue, nausia, pain, anxiety and/or anger. It can be subtle, something that only your subconscious picks up and steers you away from, or severe, like actual physical pain, retching and revulsion. In cases where I am kept in an overloaded state and cannot remove myself from it easily, I will go into a more extreme state that can involve panic, rage or mental shutdown.

This is why I switch off sound and a lot of the visual effects. This is why the new(er) UI is a step backwards for me. This is why the new in-station animations and the billboards are offensive. This is why I really do prefer the old EVE that I fell in love with rather than the new EVE that is increasingly unpleasant to expose myself to.

I'm not alone. CCP built the success of this game off the support of many players like me, but now you're turning your backs on us. It's no wonder that your feedback threads look like this. It's not like we don't tell you how we feel, it's just you aren't getting the message.


I have the anger part too - CCP's ignorance is unacceptable, period.
Davina Sienar
The Misinterpretation of Silence
#240 - 2016-06-29 16:23:40 UTC
Sgt Ocker wrote:
CCP Darwin wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:
7 pages in 12 hours and much of it requesting ONE (docking animations - ON / OFF) thing be altered.

Our focus with the settings menu right now is on reducing complexity, rather than adding it. Generally, we won't add a toggle for a new graphic feature unless it is too heavy for low-end machines, and even then we'd prefer to tie it to an existing setting.

However, your feedback about what you do or don't like about the docking animation can help direct future iteration on it, so if it bothers you, please let us know specifically why.

So would undocking warping to a gate (during the invul killing undock animation) and having your ship not visible, camera frozen, not being able to jump or warp off - Be classed as a glich, bug or intended ?

Or the losing of a cyno because while I was waiting for the docking animation and the reshipping animation I was unable to undock and protect my alts ship - Yeah it was only a T1 frigate but if this sort of game play slowing feature is intended to work like this, it really isn't a good feature.
For Bob's sake, you can't even open the fitting window, market or anything else for the time it takes for your ship to, "arrive"?


Worst part of this, when you have to relog (3 times so far in 4 hours) to continue your journey, you don't warp off - You just sit on the gate - In lowsec. With the added login time since Citadel, this will lead to Support receiving a lot more - Eve is broken tickets they need to delay 3 or 4 weeks answering because they are "busy". (average support ticket response is around 3 weeks now - and you want to add to that with this un-necessary, unpopular addition to the growing lagfest called TQ)

Normal Frame Rate, around 65 (3 monitors with dedicated GTX 750ti cards), now driven down to 15 on undocking - Dropping to 45 due to the "can't turn it off" and not at all interesting "warp effect" was something I could live with - I'm sorry, I don't have 4 grand to replace my 2 year old computer, just to keep up with the "fluff" effects CCP seem intent on driving some of us out of the game with. We aren't all millionaires that can buy a new computer every six months because CCP like adding resource hogging, time wasting "fluff". I used to be able to run 4 or 5 characters with graphics on high, now i run 3 or 4 on medium and low settings and still get lag spikes worthy of dialup internet and frame rate drops that would be expected using my old 386 with intel onboard graphics.
I know my system is not top of the line but a 3.6 quad core, 16 gig ram and 2 dedicated cards should be able to run my characters, as it did 2 months ago.


I know, how about an ON / Off switch for those who want to actually play Eve, not put up with meaningless effects no-one but a Dev with too much time on his or her hands decided we need. (90% of SISi feedback was against this - the majority here is negative, IS CCP LISTENING)

Personally, I would rather have more options in the menu to turn off unwanted effects - Not less.

You say your focusing on reducing menu complexity, which is good BUT for BOB's sake, don't do it at the expense of play-ability of the game. (Don't we have enough timers to deal with already, without CCP adding things like this)

These new animations add nothing to game play and so should be "optional" so those who want to play the game in a fast efficient way can. We should not be forced to wait out timers when docking or undocking, which is basically all this new addition brings to TQ.

I've already dropped from 11 to 5 accounts, I just can't run them all anymore. Seems I may have to drop a couple more if some of these resource hogging effects aren't given ON / OFF options. I don't know what you did with Citadel but, logging in, longer black screen on undock, severely reduced frame rates (All compared to before Citadel), is taking a toll.

Specifically what I don't like - The whole station induced timer thing. The added time to dock reship and undock. The way the camera zooms right out and seems to go in a circle, then zooms to 100% when the timer ends.
I could go on but I think you should get the idea - If I have not been clear enough, I don't like the feature, AT ALL.


Eve has enough "fluff" for now, fixing things that are broken would make Eve a much better game. New timers don't.. ..


Suggestion;
If you want to add a "boarding animation" Which this seems to be attempting - Make it realistic.
Player opens ships hangar, selects ship, walks up to it and boards. THEN you would have something that might be worth adding to the game. (remember Incarna - if your gonna do it, do it right) Again It would need to have an opt in, out option, not everyone wants forced special effects in Eve. Some of us just want to play the game with minimum fuss.


THIS AND SO MUCH THIS IN YER FACE FULL FRONTAL
The next one saying u just need to get used to it should be fired
No ...I just need to stop paying
Already angry at myself for buying tickets to Iceland for next Year^^

If you want to get rid of the old players and make an EvE for the generation Smartphone aka I need a Popup
for any kind of *%§# then just keep on the "good work"