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[Skill Prereq Tweaks] AWU and more!

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Author
Suitonia
V0LTA
WE FORM V0LTA
#81 - 2016-06-01 02:52:41 UTC
Cenwarde wrote:
Suitonia wrote:
Can you reduce the prerequisites for Guided Missile Precision from Missile Launcher Operation 5 to level 4 too while you're here. All the gunnery support skills are unlocked from Gunnery 5, and only Gunnery 5 is required for Battleship guns, which is true for Battleship missile types too with MLO 5 but it currently is a huge road block for new missile characters as it's the most important application skill and it's walled away.


Seriously?!? Missile Launcher Operations is a four and a half day train at most. That is hardly a wall.


4.5 days is fairly important when you're new to the game and have so many other things you could be training instead. GMP is such an important skill it is a huge difference in having it or not.

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Elenahina
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#82 - 2016-06-01 15:58:23 UTC
Make it so, number one

Eve is like an addiction; you can't quit it until it quits you. Also, iderno

Tengu Grib
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#83 - 2016-06-01 19:24:19 UTC
This would help out our Newbros greatly. AWU is critical for fitting ships properly and is a prohibitively long train for new players.

This gets my +1.

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Praise James, Supreme Protector of High Sec.

Drammie Askold
Saints Of Chaos
Evictus.
#84 - 2016-06-01 22:03:03 UTC
A good idea, pleae implement it soon.

As the blessed St. Reptilicus said "Some days you can't get a drink on the cuff anyplace."

Celthric Kanerian
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#85 - 2016-06-01 22:52:04 UTC
I don't get it. Beginning players will want to train AWU 5 sometime within the first 6 months anyway, as it makes quite a difference.
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#86 - 2016-06-02 14:09:51 UTC
Celthric Kanerian wrote:
I don't get it. Beginning players will want to train AWU 5 sometime within the first 6 months anyway, as it makes quite a difference.


You will want it for sure but getting AWU to IV before you get WU to V is a better progress route.
Sean Parisi
Blackrise Vanguard
#87 - 2016-06-03 06:45:50 UTC
Good decision. Fitting skills is one of those things I often take for granted. Would not even be against lowering the bar on some T2 ships as well. However, do firmly believe specializations should still be encouraged. (also - Missile skill revamp when?? current tree makes no sense compared to gunnery - combine Heavy / Heavy Assaults & Rockets / Lights etc)

One thing I would really appreciate though? Especially to help new players? - The ability to mass fit ships in a screen similar to the current industry one. Show me all the modules I have - give me an option to choose how many ships to fit and then tell me how many ships / modules I am missing (like you would with minerals). This would make fitting up a few hundred merlins for new guys a bit easier.

Otherwise I just do not have the time to haul everything there and literally hurt my wrist clicking / renaming the same ship 100 times for ships I am not even personally using. The goal should be to try and get out of station - fitting mass quantities of ships at once would make this easier.
Hawke Frost
#88 - 2016-06-04 00:16:43 UTC
I'm ok with it, it's in line with similar skill req changes we've had over time and it's not game breaking or "dumbing things down". It's simply acknowledging that for some ships or factions the PG gain is far more important than the cpu gain and as such it evens the playing field for newer players.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#89 - 2016-06-04 01:13:21 UTC
Sean Parisi wrote:
Good decision. Fitting skills is one of those things I often take for granted. Would not even be against lowering the bar on some T2 ships as well. However, do firmly believe specializations should still be encouraged. (also - Missile skill revamp when?? current tree makes no sense compared to gunnery - combine Heavy / Heavy Assaults & Rockets / Lights etc)



that is not needed they are different yes but not worse. with missiles you only have to deal with the hull class and not hull class + race this difference allow is enough to keep the progression different. One of the best things about it is it makes rockets and extreamly fast train to t2 giving players access to a very viable t2 weapon system in about a week
Master Gaius Kalvo
Influence Emporium
Sev3rance
#90 - 2016-06-04 12:39:18 UTC
This is a good improvement for new players to cut quickly through the skill chain in order to achieve its carreer goal.

As said before it is also important to improve skill names and descriptions.

When you have a good name for the skill descriptions are less needed.

Suggestions

Weapons Power Efficiency - Reduce in xx% per skill level the amount of power required to fit a turret in your ship.
Weapons CPU Efficiency - Reduce in xx% per skill level the amount of CPU required to fit a turret in your ship.

In order to compensate for the easier path the skill could be broken in thre per weapon sizeas, follows:.

Light Weapons Power Efficiency
Medium Weapons Power Efficiency
Heavy Weapons Power Efficiency

and

Light Weapons CPU Efficiency
Medium Weapons CPU Efficiency
Heavy Weapons CPU Efficiency
Lugh Crow-Slave
#91 - 2016-06-05 02:23:24 UTC
Master Gaius Kalvo wrote:


In order to compensate for the easier path the skill could be broken in thre per weapon sizeas, follows:.

Light Weapons Power Efficiency
Medium Weapons Power Efficiency
Heavy Weapons Power Efficiency

and

Light Weapons CPU Efficiency
Medium Weapons CPU Efficiency
Heavy Weapons CPU Efficiency


just adds clutter
Sama Dobrota
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#92 - 2016-06-05 06:31:37 UTC
CCP Fozzie,

i know this is off-topic, but PLEASE, make Micro Auxiliary Power Core II require Capacitor Management 4 not 5 !
this is frigsize module after all

Thanks
Lugh Crow-Slave
#93 - 2016-06-05 07:43:00 UTC
not so sure about that one... you should have cap man V before you are out of frigs...
MAS0RAKSH
Doomheim
#94 - 2016-06-06 00:26:41 UTC
why not just separate them entirely, change attribs to INT/MEM, and set WpUpg to use CPU Management IV and Gunnery IV, then AdvWp Upgrades to use PowerGrid Management IV and Gunnery IV?

MAPC II needs Cap Management V, but HAC needs Cap Management IV... really? Seems better as MAPC's are frig/dessie level module should have the lower requirement of IV and HAC need level V as you also need Energy Grid and Wp Upgrade V and Spaceship Command V -keep it consistently V's for the HAC.

MAS0RAKSH
Doomheim
#95 - 2016-06-06 00:33:59 UTC
Separately, if you, CCP, want to separate players from their isk at a higher rate, let T2 ships require the base hull skill (frig, dessie, cruiser, etc... ) to IV. So they lose x% gained with V -they are buying that T2 ship.

Example -
Sentinel
Amarr Frig IV: 30% weapon disruption vs 37.5; 80% nos/neut drain amount vs 100%

Ishtar
Gallente Cruiser IV: 30% bonus to Hvy Drone max velocity/tracking vs 37.5%; 40% drone HP/Dmg vs 50%; 20% vs 25% Sentry Drone HP/Dmg

never really understood the logic of having the T1 skill bonus per level stated instead of a flat level V bonus unless it was intended that a T2 ship pilot could have the T1 ship skill at IV and get V at some later time.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#96 - 2016-06-06 07:42:20 UTC
Sama Dobrota wrote:
CCP Fozzie,

i know this is off-topic, but PLEASE, make Micro Auxiliary Power Core II require Capacitor Management 4 not 5 !
this is frigsize module after all

Thanks

It's also a T2 module which is specialisation.
You can use Micro power corers without 5, Just use the T1, Meta & Faction variants instead.
CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#97 - 2016-06-06 15:49:48 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Fozzie
You folks are the reason I can't ever just make a small change. :P

With your "good ideas" and "well reasoned additions" bah humbug.

I've got a small set of other skill prereqs inspired by the GMP idea that we're investigating in addition to the AWU change:

  • Reducing the requirements for training the second tier factional ewar strength skills (Signal Dispersion, Signal Suppression, Signature Focusing and Weapon Destabilization) from CPU Management level 5 to 4
  • Reducing the requirements for training Nanite Operation and Nanite Interfacing from Mechanics level 5 to 4
  • Reducing the requirements for training Guided Missile Precision from Missile Launcher Operation level 5 to 4


On the subject of naming let's do a quick community brainstorming project:
If we wanted to change the name of the Weapon Upgrades skill to something that describes both halves of its purpose (it reduces weapon CPU usage and also opens up access to weapon upgrade modules like damage and tracking mods) what phrasing would be clearest?
The current name of "Weapon Upgrades" very clearly indicates what modules you gain access for by training the skill, but doesn't really describe the bonus provided by the skill itself.
Something like "Weapon CPU Optimization" has the opposite problem. It describes the skill bonus but not the modules you get access to.

Can we find something that elegantly works for both?

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie

Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#98 - 2016-06-06 15:57:28 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
You folks are the reason I can't ever just make a small change. :P

With your "good ideas" and "well reasoned additions" bah humbug.

I've got a small set of other skill prereqs inspired by the GMP idea that we're investigating in addition to the AWU change:

  • Reducing the requirements for training the second tier factional ewar strength skills (Signal Dispersion, Signal Suppression, Signature Focusing and Weapon Destabilization) from CPU Management level 5 to 4
  • Reducing the requirements for training Nanite Operation and Nanite Interfacing from Mechanics level 5 to 4
  • Reducing the requirements for training Guided Missile Precision from Missile Launcher Operation level 5 to 4


On the subject of naming let's do a quick community brainstorming project:
If we wanted to change the name of the Weapon Upgrades skill to something that describes both halves of its purpose (it reduces weapon CPU usage and also opens up access to weapon upgrade modules like damage and tracking mods) what phrasing would be clearest?
The current name of "Weapon Upgrades" very clearly indicates what modules you gain access for by training the skill, but doesn't really describe the bonus provided by the skill itself.
Something like "Weapon CPU Optimization" has the opposite problem. It describes the skill bonus but not the modules you get access to.

Can we find something that elegantly works for both?



Weapon Control Optimization.


Baryon Adaption Network Generation.

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Niden
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#99 - 2016-06-06 15:58:29 UTC
Weapons Optimization
Weapons Management
Weapon System Management
Weapon Enhancement

/N
Carbon Alabel
Gemini Talon
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
#100 - 2016-06-06 15:59:58 UTC
Can't think of anything nice.

Also, might be just me, but I like the names as they are now.