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[GalFed] Villore Assembly: Resolution on Jin Mei Civil War
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Tyrel Toov
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#41 - 2016-05-02 19:17:57 UTC
Rinai Vero wrote:
Guys, I know it is partly my fault for providing the link... but this topic really isn't about a certain person's history. Its just a thing to keep in mind whenever the insults start flying your direction. People in glass escape pods, ect.

I would be very interested to see your thoughts on the matter of the Resolution, though.

Rook Moray wrote:


This all sounds good on a data pad. But you know the government isn't just gonna go there with flowers and hold everyone's hand and sing songs. The Feds would have to pick a side that's willing to play within the Federation structure, back them and then eradicate the opposition. That's the definition of "how to best proceed."

I do think they need to get all the facts though. There's too much going on in that system that's murky.



I think your assessment is something for us to be cautious about, but it is hardly the only possible outcome. Or the most likely. The need to "eradicate" opposition assumes that the opposition is irrational and incapable of negotiating. I hardly think that is the case, even with the most intransigent of our Jin Mei neighbors.

Sorry, I'll stop now.

I want to paint my ship Periwinkle.
Kolodi Ramal
Sanxing Yi
#42 - 2016-05-02 19:41:21 UTC
Thank you. After ten years of the Jin-Mei suffering in silence, the least we can do is stay on topic.
Deitra Vess
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#43 - 2016-05-02 20:05:37 UTC
Rinai Vero wrote:
Guys, I know it is partly my fault for providing the link... but this topic really isn't about a certain person's history. Its just a thing to keep in mind whenever the insults start flying your direction. People in glass escape pods, ect.

I would be very interested to see your thoughts on the matter of the Resolution, though.

Rook Moray wrote:


This all sounds good on a data pad. But you know the government isn't just gonna go there with flowers and hold everyone's hand and sing songs. The Feds would have to pick a side that's willing to play within the Federation structure, back them and then eradicate the opposition. That's the definition of "how to best proceed."

I do think they need to get all the facts though. There's too much going on in that system that's murky.



I think your assessment is something for us to be cautious about, but it is hardly the only possible outcome. Or the most likely. The need to "eradicate" opposition assumes that the opposition is irrational and incapable of negotiating. I hardly think that is the case, even with the most intransigent of our Jin Mei neighbors.


Your right, I'm sorry I got a little distracted with that. Honestly it was something I was unaware of and I kinda lost track of things more deserving than... that.

Towards the matter at hand, admittedly I'm not too familiar with what is going on or what went on with it for that matter. From what I can honestly say I am familiar with in regards to the current civil war in Chandeille I can only ask If you were to amass a capsuleer aid program for them how would you decide who was worthy of said aid? How would you decipher who is really in need verses who was merely using your aid to continue the bloodshed? On the idea of using the aid as a incentive to cull the violence, which I don't think was brought up as an idea but could possibly be a bargaining chip, what would the terms be to receive this aid?

Its not much but I hope it my insight helps.
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#44 - 2016-05-02 23:44:46 UTC
Rinai Vero wrote:
Diana Kim wrote:

You can't be talked with, you can't be reasoned with.


Finally, something we both agree on. If you would be so kind as to not speak or attempt to reason further in our presence, that would be grand.

Provided you will never ever say anything again, I won't have to reply to your trolling. Also if you don't want me to speak in your presence, you'd better relieve us from your presence completely.

Until then, people like you will be fought with, we will seize what is ours and expel your lying oppressive scum out from our lands.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
Rinai Vero
Blades of Liberty
#45 - 2016-05-03 00:02:45 UTC
Diana, I didn't start this thread for you. That would be the other one, which hilariously... you avoided.

You'll notice I've not posted in the threads you start in quite some time. I'd be happy to never post in your threads if you'll not post in mine. We can fight in the threads started by everyone else, but I'll probably do my best to ignore you.
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#46 - 2016-05-03 02:08:18 UTC
Rinai Vero wrote:
Diana, I didn't start this thread for you. That would be the other one, which hilariously... you avoided.

You'll notice I've not posted in the threads you start in quite some time. I'd be happy to never post in your threads if you'll not post in mine. We can fight in the threads started by everyone else, but I'll probably do my best to ignore you.

You started publically lying about Caldari officer, and I won't let it stay.

If you point out that I didn't counter any of your lies elsewhere, please point to it politely, and I'll make sure to reply that way as well.

Of course, I greatly appreciate if you and your ilk will ignore me. However, I won't make such promises myself regarding your foul words. Wherever you will try again to lie about Caldari or will try to represent anything of Federation origin in a good light, I'll be there to push your nose into your lies. Even if you won't see this, others will.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
Omega Tyrannus
Doomheim
#47 - 2016-05-03 02:44:22 UTC
Diana Kim wrote:
Rinai Vero wrote:
Diana, I didn't start this thread for you. That would be the other one, which hilariously... you avoided.

You'll notice I've not posted in the threads you start in quite some time. I'd be happy to never post in your threads if you'll not post in mine. We can fight in the threads started by everyone else, but I'll probably do my best to ignore you.

You started publically lying about Caldari officer, and I won't let it stay.

If you point out that I didn't counter any of your lies elsewhere, please point to it politely, and I'll make sure to reply that way as well.

Of course, I greatly appreciate if you and your ilk will ignore me. However, I won't make such promises myself regarding your foul words. Wherever you will try again to lie about Caldari or will try to represent anything of Federation origin in a good light, I'll be there to push your nose into your lies. Even if you won't see this, others will.


You could save everyone time by leaving the State, come to our ranks in the wonderful Gallente! We won't eat you.
Rinai Vero
Blades of Liberty
#48 - 2016-05-03 03:24:59 UTC
Omega, you seem new so I'll cut you in on a little secret: milking Diana Kim for free topic bumps is basically the easiest and stupidest game on the IGS. It's quite the razor's edge between keeping her on the hook and having her rants infect the entire topic to the point that no real discussion can take place. So, let me handle this one.

I'd really love to hear your perspective on the actual topic though! What do you think about the Federation intervening in Jin Mei civil conflict? How about capsuleers providing humanitarian relief? Good idea, or potentially problematic?

If you'll observe carefully, you'll realize that she has once again returned to the origin of her feedback loop. I pointed out that by her very own statements she is either lying now, or she lied before.

As usual, she ignored this completely and instead reverted to the tried and true Caldari tactic of claiming eternal victimhood. You see, people like her are incapable of accomplishing anything for themselves... so they must have an existential conflict with Gallente "oppressors" in order to validate their purposeless existence. Tragic, really.
Morwen Lagann
Tyrathlion Interstellar
#49 - 2016-05-03 06:51:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Morwen Lagann
Rinai Vero wrote:
I'd really love to hear your perspective on the actual topic though! What do you think about the Federation intervening in Jin Mei civil conflict? How about capsuleers providing humanitarian relief? Good idea, or potentially problematic?

I know you were addressing someone else, but I suppose I might chime in with my two ISK.

As far as intervention goes, it could go either way. On the one hand, the Federation's not exactly got a spotless record when it comes to interfering with other cultures and it blowing up in its face. On the other, it really shouldn't be tolerating a civil war amongst one of its member nations, particularly one that is as special a snowflake as the Jin-Mei. Now, I don't say that meaning offense, but in that the Jin-Mei quite literally are a special snowflake compared to the other member nations. They were allowed to become one while continuing to cling to a caste system that is in a fair bit of conflict with the Federation's stated aims, goals and philosophies. (Whether it's in conflict with the reality on the ground in various places in the Federation... well. Theory and practice, not always identical.)

Is it a good idea? Possibly. But unless done right, the potential for it to backfire is enough that it ought to be cause for concern, or at least caution.

Capsuleers and humanitarian relief, though? That depends entirely on who is involved. As far as that goes... I believe I'll let my record speak for itself.

Morwen Lagann

CEO, Tyrathlion Interstellar

Coordinator, Arataka Research Consortium

Owner, The Golden Masque
Jennifer Maxwell
Crimson Serpent Syndicate
#50 - 2016-05-03 11:59:35 UTC
Rinai Vero wrote:
Diana Kim wrote:
Rinai Vero wrote:
Your claim that you were enforcing an arrest warrant on Pilot Gesakaarin is a ridiculous falsehood, as proven by the law enforcement response against your vessel by State Protectorate authorities.

I wasn't enforcing arrest warrant, you pityful lying gallentean, I was fighting traitors openly.


Oh really?

Diana Kim wrote:
These bastards resisted arrest and got away. That's all.


So, either you're lying now or you were lying then. Either way, you're a liar. Remember, everyone: this pilot is a known pirate, traitor and liar.

By the way, that right there is how you provide proof of an accusation. Something you have yet to do when you accuse me.

Diana Kim wrote:

You can't be talked with, you can't be reasoned with.


Finally, something we both agree on. If you would be so kind as to not speak or attempt to reason further in our presence, that would be grand.

I was right. You do enjoy setting yourself up for failure.

Well, I hear masochism is common in the Gallente culture, so I guess I shouldn't be too judgemental.
Rinai Vero
Blades of Liberty
#51 - 2016-05-03 14:00:08 UTC
Are you talking about the Pact? Yeah, obviously the IGS is incapable of coordinating that kind of collective action. Talking about it was fun for a whole minute though.

Anyway, this isn't a topic about my fetishes. Unless you count parliamentary procedure as a fetish, in which case...
Korsavius
Revenent Defence Corperation
#52 - 2016-05-03 15:00:54 UTC
Rinai Vero wrote:
As usual, she ignored this completely and instead reverted to the tried and true Caldari tactic of claiming eternal victimhood.

With all due respect, it is of poor form to resort to sweeping generalizations about all Caldari - or any people for that matter. Especially when there are a number of Caldari representatives in the Villore Assembly.

You wish to be taken seriously. You are, to a certain extent, working as a politician. Start acting like it. Unless, of course, it is customary among politicians in the Federation to resort to such childish public behavior. I guess I'll let the tabloids and public scandals speak for themselves.

Anyhow, this statement from you is moderately disappointing.

Cold Wind's Blade || Follow the I-RED Newsfeed & visit the I-RED GalNet site!
Veikitamo Gesakaarin
Doomheim
#53 - 2016-05-03 15:13:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Veikitamo Gesakaarin
As far as I'm aware one of the significant opt-out clauses for Lirsautton was the maintenance of a separate Jin-Mei home navy under the control of the Sang Do. Of course, that leads to the sort of frictions between the old Sang Do of Tei-Su and the, "New" Sang Do of Chakaux escalating into armed feudal conflict as they try to settle what appears to be territorial disputes and Jing-Ko powerbases via their own PMC's.

I'm not sure a whole lot can be done about the situation since any motions for direct Federal intervention are going to be blocked in the Senate by the Mannar and Solitude blocs in addition to the Sang Do council, if not the Supreme Court as a charter violation.

Kurilaivonen|Concern
Rinai Vero
Blades of Liberty
#54 - 2016-05-03 15:28:39 UTC
Korsavius wrote:
Rinai Vero wrote:
As usual, she ignored this completely and instead reverted to the tried and true Caldari tactic of claiming eternal victimhood.

With all due respect, it is of poor form to resort to sweeping generalizations about all Caldari - or any people for that matter. Especially when there are a number of Caldari representatives in the Villore Assembly.

You wish to be taken seriously. You are, to a certain extent, working as a politician. Start acting like it. Unless, of course, it is customary among politicians in the Federation to resort to such childish public behavior. I guess I'll let the tabloids and public scandals speak for themselves.

Anyhow, this statement from you is moderately disappointing.


it was not my intent to make "sweeping generalizations about all Caldari," and for not making that clear I apologize. I do think that some Caldari too commonly invoke victimhood as a rhetorical weapon. I'll say now unequivocally that when I referred to "people like her" that I was not talking about the vast majority, or even a significant minority, of Caldari. Merely those few sad extremists who we all have the misfortune to deal with so often in this forum.

I would appreciate some credit for having been repeatedly goaded by the time I made that statement, but I apologize nonetheless.
Katherie Hobbes
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#55 - 2016-05-03 20:23:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Katherie Hobbes
(OOC: omg a Jin-Mei thread it was my destiny to re-sub for this. ^_^)

So - this is all well and good, and I'm glad something has finally moved through the bureaucracy after a decade of strife. But at some point we Jin-Mei need to look think about some hard and inconvenient truths:


  1. The Federation and it's obsession with like-it-or-not libertine sameness is incompatible with our history, cultural, and societal mores
  2. It took this long for anyone to notice, and frankly I'm doubtful of a positive, permanent outcome
  3. FedMart, Quafe, and others entities value our markets, but repeatedly circumvent our social structure to pursue profits
  4. We may do better on our own, or attached to an Empire more in-line with our values


I'll spare you what I think we should do, but now is the right time to reflect. We should absolutely help as capsuleers, though.
Synthetic Cultist
Church of The Crimson Saviour
#56 - 2016-05-03 21:04:47 UTC
What Effect does the Jin-Mei Civil War have on Agricultural Exports of speciality Fruit from the Lirsautton system ?

Synthia 1, Empress of Kaztropol.

It is Written.
Claudia Osyn
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#57 - 2016-05-03 21:17:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Claudia Osyn
Synthetic Cultist wrote:
What Effect does the Jin-Mei Civil War have on Agricultural Exports of speciality Fruit from the Lirsautton system ?

Our five experts weigh in on this, expert three's theories will blow your mind! [BUTTON THAT TOTALLY DOESN'T SPAM POP-UP AD's]

A little trust goes a long way. The less you use, the further you'll go.
Deitra Vess
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#58 - 2016-05-03 22:16:05 UTC
Katherie Hobbes wrote:


So - this is all well and good, and I'm glad something has finally moved through the bureaucracy after a decade of strife. But at some point we Jin-Mei need to look think about some hard and inconvenient truths:


  1. The Federation and it's obsession with like-it-or-not libertine sameness is incompatible with our history, cultural, and societal mores
  2. It took this long for anyone to notice, and frankly I'm doubtful of a positive, permanent outcome
  3. FedMart, Quafe, and others entities value our markets, but repeatedly circumvent our social structure to pursue profits
  4. We may do better on our own, or attached to an Empire more in-line with our values


I'll spare you what I think we should do, but now is the right time to reflect. We should absolutely help as capsuleers, though.

Not trying to really question your thoughts because I understand where the majority comes from. The concerns on the market have me wondering: The republic's own corporations have business dealings with the Caldari and even the Empire's corporations to some extent. It may be my own speculation but I highly doubt they respect our culture in their dealings with them. Why would that really be a major issue for the Jin-Mei? Business is business after all. As long as your people are profiting from it does that really matter? If they aren't profiting why are they doing business with them in the first place?

((Don't know ya honestly but welcome back!))
Jennifer Maxwell
Crimson Serpent Syndicate
#59 - 2016-05-03 22:23:24 UTC
Rinai Vero wrote:
Are you talking about the Pact? Yeah, obviously the IGS is incapable of coordinating that kind of collective action. Talking about it was fun for a whole minute though.

Anyway, this isn't a topic about my fetishes. Unless you count parliamentary procedure as a fetish, in which case...

I was referring specifically to your seemingly long-forgotten decision to ignore Cmdr. Kim in your last thread, and my response therein.

And yes, I would classify parliamentary procedure under "masochism".
Rinai Vero
Blades of Liberty
#60 - 2016-05-03 22:35:07 UTC
As long as I'm the only one in my thread forced to respond to the troll, I figure everyone else can have a civil conversation. Consider me thoroughly embarrassed, if you like.

You're more than welcome to participate in the actual discussion yourself. Although, now that you've identified my true purpose behind the Assembly, perhaps you'd rather not? Or would you...? Hard to know what the Gallentean will like more, isn't it?