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First post
Author
Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat
Snuffed Out
#1281 - 2016-04-12 12:31:09 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Tomika wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
standings arent relevant to me, sp is relevant to everyone


That does not translate to "I need to go and kill a rat for more SP". If you choose to do nothing, literally nothing will change for you. You will still gain SP as fast as you were previously.


sure something has changed i'm now 10ksp behind for the day compaired to the person who was able to do it


even though you were logged in and in space for 4 hours that day...

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*

aldhura
Blackjack and Exotic Dancers
Top Tier
#1282 - 2016-04-12 12:34:55 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Tomika wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
standings arent relevant to me, sp is relevant to everyone


That does not translate to "I need to go and kill a rat for more SP". If you choose to do nothing, literally nothing will change for you. You will still gain SP as fast as you were previously.


sure something has changed i'm now 10ksp behind for the day compaired to the person who was able to do it


In that light you millions of SP behind anyone who chooses to inject skills. It free, take it or leave it.
Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat
Snuffed Out
#1283 - 2016-04-12 12:45:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Lan Wang
aldhura wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Tomika wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
standings arent relevant to me, sp is relevant to everyone


That does not translate to "I need to go and kill a rat for more SP". If you choose to do nothing, literally nothing will change for you. You will still gain SP as fast as you were previously.


sure something has changed i'm now 10ksp behind for the day compaired to the person who was able to do it


In that light you millions of SP behind anyone who chooses to inject skills. It free, take it or leave it.


but injectors are generic and anyone can use them without having to make different gameplay choices, someone logging in for 5 mins gets rewarded where someone who has been online for 3 hours gets no reward unless they change the way they play the game.

sp is generic and relevant to everyone, anyone can buy skill injectors, anyone can buy implants without doing another activity that they dont want to do, to get an extra 4mil sp a year you have to do pve even though you spend more time in space than most people

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*

baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1284 - 2016-04-12 12:49:37 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
Mister Ripley wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Terrorfrodo wrote:
If you earn ISK while logged off than whatever that is you're doing should be nerfed :p

It's called industry.

I wouldn't say it's "earning ISK while logged off". The actual industry part is getting the materials and setting everything up and then selling it. The time to build is just a cap to regulate the production volume. Same goes for trading. It sound nice the think about it like "afk ISK" but that ISK is just the result of your logged in activity. You just get the money with a certain delay.
Like killing a rat, logging off and then getting the bounty.


I'd rather spend 20 min setting up industry jobs then going on a weekend break than spending the weekend grinding FW missions. This is why I like eve, I'm not disadvantaged for only having limited play time. I can earn my isk and gain sp just as fast as people who play every day. This idea punishes people like me as I simply cannot log in every day.
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#1285 - 2016-04-12 13:04:50 UTC
Lan Wang wrote:
aldhura wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Tomika wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
standings arent relevant to me, sp is relevant to everyone


That does not translate to "I need to go and kill a rat for more SP". If you choose to do nothing, literally nothing will change for you. You will still gain SP as fast as you were previously.


sure something has changed i'm now 10ksp behind for the day compaired to the person who was able to do it


In that light you millions of SP behind anyone who chooses to inject skills. It free, take it or leave it.


but injectors are generic and anyone can use them without having to make different gameplay choices, someone logging in for 5 mins gets rewarded where someone who has been online for 3 hours gets no reward unless they change the way they play the game.

sp is generic and relevant to everyone, anyone can buy skill injectors, anyone can buy implants without doing another activity that they dont want to do, to get an extra 4mil sp a year you have to do pve even though you spend more time in space than most people


Nobody care, especially the system, if you usually do PvE or not and this is definitely not designed to be "fair" in any way, shape or form between what each player spend his time doing. It's like your boss telling you to bring an apple to work for a 5$ bonus each day. Either you bring the stupid apple and collect 5$ or you don't and don't get a bonus. Oh you live in the middle of the city and no grocery store or market sells apple on your way or close to where you live? Though luck, we want apples. Some people will always get it because they live on an orchard, some people will get it most of the time because they can easyly gets their hands on apples, some people will go the hard way to drive out of their regular travel pattern to get that apple and some people won't because the hassle isn't worth 5$.

Is logging every one of your alts and doing a task you dislike worth 10k sp or not? The choice of adding a quantity of "suck" to your gaming is yours. I know I will personally not make a point of getting it all the time because like other stuff in this game and other games too, I refuse to do thing I find stupid and broken. You might think otherwise but at the end of the day, the choice will be yours. CCP is not twisting your arm, reducing your game time or limiting the amount of damage you can deal in the game. They are just not handing you the SP unless you do the stupid task.
Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat
Snuffed Out
#1286 - 2016-04-12 13:16:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Lan Wang
Frostys Virpio wrote:
CCP is not twisting your arm, reducing your game time or limiting the amount of damage you can deal in the game. They are just not handing you the SP unless you do the stupid task.


yet... Lol

However a new player may feel like this is whats happening, "thought this was a sandbox, why they making me do this stuff for extra sp"

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*

Sir Constantin
#1287 - 2016-04-12 13:26:33 UTC
These guys with their logical point of view. The feelings and emotions will always win over logic.

Not everyone is willing to cut corners and "cheat" using skill injectors, I would never plug that **** in.
Lagging behind and losing 6 days of training/month because we don't want to engage in a daily mindless grind is a insult for us, the grownups.
We got into this game knowing that progression is linear and we don't have to grind to boost our stats, we understood and accept some of the changes, like SP injectors which are helping the adhd newbros, but this, this is outrageous.
Mayharm
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1288 - 2016-04-12 14:09:28 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:


Why Dailies?
So first lets talk a little history. EVE had a daily logon incentive for most of it's existence: the 24 hour skill queue limit. Back in Phoebe, we removed those limitations. Now, at the time, we were of two minds internally. We didn't like the experience around being punished for not logging in to update your queue, but also knew that some of those logins might be leading to meaningful gameplay and we shouldn't lightly let go of them. We leaned to the side of a better experience and removed the limitations, hoping that the logins we were generating were fairly empty, rarely leading to more actual activity in the universe. Well, it turns out we were wrong about that. Now, with before and after data we can see that making it into the client is a huge step towards real activity, even if the reason for logging in in the first place seems artificial. So this leads us to where we are now, attempting to find ways to create more logins that also don't feel like such a punishment as the skill queue limitations did. This may not turn out to be the perfect alternative but that's what we're looking for.



  • Eve selling point # 1 it's a sandbox

  • Eve selling point # 2 the sandbox enables player on player interactions to drive content


CCP is bringing in dailies because the small % increased chance of player on player interaction appears to bolster selling point # 2. The problem is their idea achieves it by undermining selling point # 1, the freedom to spend your time doing whatever you want in-game.

I have a suggestion on how to tie dailies to selling point # 1... this would be good yes? Ok, so put aside the whole SP reward aspect for a moment (FYI I dislike the SP reward) and focus on the required activity, killing a rat or (as they've already indicated) killing a rock. My suggestion, in it's purest form, is to make the required activity completing a corporation contract.

How does this tie it to the sandbox?

Any item in the game has the potential to be exchanged via contract, from big expensive ships down to illegal drugs and alcohol, from frozen corpses to bookmarks.... In other words the players have the freedom to use their imagination to come up with almost any in-game activity that is possible as the daily requirement.

And, believe it or not, the fact that this enables the choice to make the requirement as meaningless and trivial as interacting with a rock by exchanging one unit of trit, this too drives further player on player interaction!

How does "cheating" the system produce player on player interaction?

In this thread right here we're at 50+ pages of ranting because it's the only connection to CCP, we have no other way of interacting with them. We're doing it because they are introducing/forcing trivial and meaningless content. If a player introduces/re-enforces trivial and meaningless content, well we're in a sandbox, kick sand in his face and and stomp on his sandcastles...

If that still does not convince you that in a sandbox there is no "wrong" choice, consider the most extreme example of this with a 2000 member corp. All 2000 members want to complete a daily, every day. To fulfill what their members want the corp management setup trivial contracts for all the members, that's 2000 contracts. Their members want to do it every day and login regularly, so that's 2000 contracts per day. It takes maybe 30 seconds to set up one contract on average (don't ignore RSI, bios, eating etc) 2000 x 30 = 60,000 seconds = 1000 minutes = 16 hours and 40 minutes worth of effort.

Why would a corporation spend all that time and effort for free? In real life they'd go bankrupt, in-game they'd burnout contract officers. Even if a coporation were evil enough to do this, same as above, kick sand in their face and stomp on their sandcastles.

But what if the player scams the corporation in one of these "imaginative" contracts for frozen corpses or bookmarks?

Scammers, isk doublers, corp thieves, spies... again, their *choice* in how they play the game is not wrong.
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#1289 - 2016-04-12 14:11:36 UTC
Lan Wang wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
CCP is not twisting your arm, reducing your game time or limiting the amount of damage you can deal in the game. They are just not handing you the SP unless you do the stupid task.


yet... Lol

However a new player may feel like this is whats happening, "thought this was a sandbox, why they making me do this stuff for extra sp"


Making you do extra **** for extra stuff is not a punishment.

"My boss is not paying me overtime when I don't do overtime!!!!!"
Tomika
Doomheim
#1290 - 2016-04-12 14:16:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Tomika
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
sure something has changed i'm now 10ksp behind for the day compaired to the person who was able to do it


And? Is EVE a skillpoint competition?

I'm 200 million ISK behind the person who was able to do incursions yesterday. So what?
CowQueen MMXII
#1291 - 2016-04-12 14:22:51 UTC
Sometimes I am active in the German help channel. When new people come in, the usual advice they are given is: do the career agents, think about what you liked doing and then start developing your activities into this direction.

With dailies it would be: do the career agents, create two additional characters on your account, have them done the military agent also (to get a combat ship and a real weapon), make sure you do your daily mission on all three of those characters every day and then do whatever you want with your main character.

Somehow this reminds me of the learning skills. You didn't have to learn them, but it was stupid not to.

Moo! Uddersucker, moo!

CCP Rise
C C P
C C P Alliance
#1292 - 2016-04-12 14:54:14 UTC
Another small update:

Thanks to feedback we see that it would improve the experience quite a lot minimize the amount of characters available for this reward so we are going to limit the reward to the first character completing the daily task on each account.

Thanks

@ccp_rise

Calima Arzi
Mass Collapse
It Must Be Jelly Cause Jam Don't Shake
#1293 - 2016-04-12 14:58:20 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
Another small update:

Thanks to feedback we see that it would improve the experience quite a lot minimize the amount of characters available for this reward so we are going to limit the reward to the first character completing the daily task on each account.

Thanks


Thank you for listening!
Advenat Bedala
Facehoof
#1294 - 2016-04-12 15:00:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Advenat Bedala
CCP Rise wrote:
Another small update:

Thanks to feedback we see that it would improve the experience quite a lot minimize the amount of characters available for this reward so we are going to limit the reward to the first character completing the daily task on each account.

Thanks

Just throw SP reward in trash or

You're a liar.
Quote:

It’s very important to note here that this means all the skillpoints available to buy on the market in EVE will have originated on other characters where they were trained at the normal rate.
Erihn Sabrovich
#1295 - 2016-04-12 15:01:48 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Erihn Sabrovich wrote:


New content is about
- new ships
- new structures
- new modules (or module changes)
- new game mechanics
...


That's tools not content😉


Well, you've obviously never played any true "user created content" game before like Mush/Mux or (for a more graphical one) Second Life...

These are sandboxes where users have tools to create items, to script them, to create places, ...

If you'd relate it to EVE, it'd be like players would be able to create new ships from scratch (not only adding modules to an existing hull, more like T3 with subsystems on steroïds, where you'd also be able to create your own subsystems and your own modules), where players would be able to setup fully automated PvE missions (with both the dialog, the goals, the enemy force, the followup, ...) and so on...

EVE is more a "PvP sandbox" than a true "User content sandbox"...

FistyMcBumBardier
Goryn Clade
#1296 - 2016-04-12 15:02:19 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
Another small update:

Thanks to feedback we see that it would improve the experience quite a lot minimize the amount of characters available for this reward so we are going to limit the reward to the first character completing the daily task on each account.

Thanks


Would you guys consider switching the rewards over to Aurum instead? I think a lot of players are triggered by the fact that SP is being rewarded and they are then reminded of horrible grinds with WoW and the clones of that. With Aurum it would also encourage players to use more SKINS which is really good.
Cynical-Saint Sunji
Perkone
Caldari State
#1297 - 2016-04-12 15:03:01 UTC
I think your goal would be better achieved if there was an SP rate boost any time you have a Limited Engagement Timer.

It is a better indicator of someone creating content. And the more content they create, the more SP they gain.

It also doesn't discourage the players that are bad at it. You may get blown up every time you engage someone, but you gain SP because you are at least out creating content.
Mizhir
Escalated.
#1298 - 2016-04-12 15:04:06 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
Another small update:

Thanks to feedback we see that it would improve the experience quite a lot minimize the amount of characters available for this reward so we are going to limit the reward to the first character completing the daily task on each account.

Thanks


Still not making them weekly? Dailies are still a ***** for players who don't have the time or the desire to log into EVE each day but still play actively on the days they do.

❤️️💛💚💙💜

Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat
Snuffed Out
#1299 - 2016-04-12 15:17:04 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
Another small update:

Thanks to feedback we see that it would improve the experience quite a lot minimize the amount of characters available for this reward so we are going to limit the reward to the first character completing the daily task on each account.

Thanks


Improve experience? dont you mean mean decrease boredom slightly

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*

Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners
Already Replaced.
#1300 - 2016-04-12 15:27:07 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
Another small update:

Thanks to feedback we see that it would improve the experience quite a lot minimize the amount of characters available for this reward so we are going to limit the reward to the first character completing the daily task on each account.

Thanks


Damn, there goes my plan to put all 8 of my alts in confessors, log off in lvl 1 missions and long in long enough to kill one frig and log off again Twisted