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Project Discovery - Changes to the scoring system

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Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#21 - 2016-03-23 17:13:44 UTC
Suggestion: Tie this feature into the "flying spaceships" part of the game.

Method: At data and Relic sites, add the loot item "Special biological sample". If you have a Special biological sample in your hold or hangar when you do Project Discovery, you get the option of "Analyze special sample". If you do so, you get more Kredit and ISK. The actual samples you see are the same ones we all see, you just get more reward.

If you do not want to do Project Discovery, and have some Special biological samples, you can sell them on the market (which means they need a market slot.)

Know a Frozen fan? Check this out

Frozen fanfiction
Jadzeer DAXX
Carbide Wine and Beer Industries
#22 - 2016-03-23 17:23:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Jadzeer DAXX
Can CCP poke HPA and get them to add bigger hamsters to the PD server. It keeps crashing, lagging etc and it's frustrating.
Jaden Noah
Trust Doesn't Rust
Goonswarm Federation
#23 - 2016-03-23 17:31:52 UTC
I may have missed it, but is there somewhere that we can see how to exchange the kredits?

Can the kredit store be linked on the PD page?
Mars Aspen
Emergency Banana Straigtening Service
#24 - 2016-03-23 17:34:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Mars Aspen
This seems to me like a really bad idea. It is crude and simplistic. Control examples are so obvious and they are always of only one type. It takes very little learning to match up a control example with a reference example. So you can select any old rubbish if the slide is remotely challenging, having more than one type, and wait for the single control examples to come along. Hey presto, you can score almost as well as a really good analyst who plays with integrity. There is now no reward for trying to work through a more complex slide because you believe in the project. The gameplay is severely compromised too. Surely you can do better than this.
Jadzeer DAXX
Carbide Wine and Beer Industries
#25 - 2016-03-23 17:36:26 UTC
Jaden Noah wrote:
I may have missed it, but is there somewhere that we can see how to exchange the kredits?

Can the kredit store be linked on the PD page?


You can buy stuff using AK in the SOE LP stores.
Maldiro Selkurk
Radiation Sickness
#26 - 2016-03-23 18:00:55 UTC
Ive played for hours and hours but im horrible at this aspect of the game (27% accuracy). I dont really understand what this change is or what it is intended t do. Can anyone reword the change in hopes i can grasp what exactly this change is supposed to fix.

Thanks, Maldiro

Yawn,  I'm right as usual. The predictability kinda gets boring really.
Demica Diaz
SE-1
#27 - 2016-03-23 18:03:07 UTC
Good news and good news on more boost to servers. Its getting bit frustrating that every 3rd picture you spent time on is "lost" Ugh. Also with speed of Kredit gain with higher rank can we have secound labcoat that is mostly white like most SoE "theme" usually is? :D
AgentMaster
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#28 - 2016-03-23 19:05:55 UTC  |  Edited by: AgentMaster
CCP Wonderboy wrote:
Hello scientists!

The Project Discovery team is extremely satisfied and impressed with Capsuleer interest for this scientific endeavor, you have been doing a great job so far!

However, in order to reduce the exploitability of the feature, we, in collaboration with MMOS and the HPA, have decided to stop calculating Accuracy Rating for the community consensus. Instead, we will increase the rate of training examples you get, for which you get an immediate rating.

This is only the first step in our attempt to improve Project Discovery and it's data quality, as we might introduce further changes to our scoring procedure. This change will also significantly reduce the heavy load on the MMOS servers and should ensure a smoother experience for everyone.

Feel free to leave any feedback and suggestions here, and may the cytoplasm be with you.

- CCP Wonderboy

EDIT: This change should roll out at 15:00 UTC, keep in mind this is only a change to the MMOS API so we expect no downtime. The Project Discovery client will be updated after Easter vacations.


Tell me what you do to prevent the arbitrary choice of answers? Some results evident that they have no resemblance to those examples
For example: https://i.gyazo.com/3723c762d0c9a531e35d604e08395b6b.png or this blind choice https://i.gyazo.com/07ecb4d61f442b277c8c0a28c6f337be.gif
Do not you think that such responses more harm than science help? No matter what answer you give - always get isks?! Ppl is lazy - why they need to lose a time to think - just click and get isk :( how else to explain the absurd answers with high rates of choice?!

Blessed is the man who has nothing to say and remain silent yet!!
Memphis Baas
#29 - 2016-03-23 19:58:43 UTC
That 77% cytoplasm choice seems to reflect how badly we're metagaming the system, despite all the praise that we're doing a good job. Clearly one way for people to achieve 99% accuracy is to go through the samples as fast as possible and record the consensus for each sample number, then go through again with an alt and answer "correctly."

Good changes so far.

I'd like to see the following:

- It looks like you've reduced the history drop-down list to only the last 6 samples, which kinda sucks. Can you please increase it to 20? We do more than 6 submissions per day.

- For the submissions that are rated negative (lowered accuracy) for by the Project Discovery people, can you implement an option so we can click on that negative rating and get the "results" slide back, so we can see the slide and what we picked wrong? I realize it's a bit of work, and possibly increased server load, to get particular slides re-downloaded, but I'd like to see what I did wrong, or at least what I picked (that was wrong). We learn from our mistakes, if the feedback is provided.

- If the above is not possible, at least compile some more detailed accuracy statistics as feedback: for example, if the screen were to tell me "You're 90% accurate in the nucleus category but only 40% in the cell body category" I'd try to improve in that area.

- EVE has a web browser and Project Discovery has a website with more examples, would you put a link to that into the Project Discovery interface? Not sure if people realize that there are more example slides out there that they could be looking at, through the in-game web browser.
NorthCrossroad
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#30 - 2016-03-23 20:10:03 UTC  |  Edited by: NorthCrossroad
Seems like a good improvement.

If possible, would be great, if latest samples that reached consensus, would be marked in different color in history. AND user would be able to see the actual result of that concensus. Perhaps, even with a possibility for a resercher to leave a note in some very unusual cases. It will help that actually try to help to understand when they are making the wrong choice.

Oh, and please, fix the weird bug. It seems that it happens when result times out, progress bar on the next science level goes full circle on the progress bar to take the similar place as before.

North
Leorajev Aubaris
Blue Goat Ltd.
#31 - 2016-03-23 20:15:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Leorajev Aubaris
Jadzeer DAXX wrote:


You can buy stuff using AK in the SOE LP stores.


Either it's not working for me or it's not true. I see no such thing when I open the LP store in a SOE station.
Found it, scrolling way down... Big smile
Beta Maoye
#32 - 2016-03-23 21:04:58 UTC
Mars Aspen wrote:
This seems to me like a really bad idea. It is crude and simplistic. Control examples are so obvious and they are always of only one type. It takes very little learning to match up a control example with a reference example. So you can select any old rubbish if the slide is remotely challenging, having more than one type, and wait for the single control examples to come along. Hey presto, you can score almost as well as a really good analyst who plays with integrity. There is now no reward for trying to work through a more complex slide because you believe in the project. The gameplay is severely compromised too. Surely you can do better than this.


I understand they have to find a balance of methodology between a game and a science project. They want to make sure that the game is interesting so that people will play it. Too much negative feedback is not interesting for most players and discourage players to play the game. On the other hand, they want most players can spend time and effort to pick the right answer so that the database can be as accurate as possible.

Too simple control slides allow people to game the system and corrupt the database. Now the control slides are concentrated in low number slides and mostly single-answer. They can randomize the numbering of control slides or hide the slide number and reveal it with the result. They can make more challenging control slides that requires 2-3 choices. Even better if they can scale up the difficulty of control slides corresponding to player's ranking. In that way, the mechanic will still be challenging while keeping it interesting as a gameplay.
Memphis Baas
#33 - 2016-03-23 21:35:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Memphis Baas
You guys do remember that game players aren't looking for interesting or challenging, right? Cause if it were so, the NPCs would whoop our asses, and the PVP'ers would fight each other rather than trying to kill industrials and freighters.

Players are looking for progression and winning, which is why CCP is having these issues with people gaming the system.

Bottom line, it's not really a game, but it's presented as one. So people are going to play to win. However, I don't have to be logical or achieve anything in a game; I can go shoot the station sentry guns over and over and over, each time in a new Ibis, if that's how I want to play EVE.
Circumstantial Evidence
#34 - 2016-03-23 21:58:36 UTC
Leorajev Aubaris wrote:
Jadzeer DAXX wrote:
You can buy stuff using AK in the SOE LP stores.
Either it's not working for me or it's not true. I see no such thing when I open the LP store in a SOE station.
Found it, scrolling way down... Big smile
This is a small problem I noted in the "March update feedback" thread. UI could be improved to help players find where to redeem AK, a special button and/or AK filter in SoE stations for the LP UI screen could help.
Diana Crow
Fox Industries and Exploration
#35 - 2016-03-23 22:03:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Diana Crow
@CCP Wonderboy

Any plans on setting the maximum accuracy rating to 100% ?
Because, 99% being the maximum right now and getting 99 Experience Points and 99.000 ISK per submission (at level 100), it seems to me, like someone messed up the calculation behind all this.Ugh
Beta Maoye
#36 - 2016-03-23 22:16:15 UTC
The purpose of PD is to utilize the huge brain power of players in massive multiplayer game to solve science problems that require the comprehensive power of human intelligence rather than raw computing power. It has to be presented as a game. CCP knows it is not about how solid and scientific a mechanic can be. It is how players feel about the game that matter. They know they have to provide incentives rather than hard facts to player in order to exchange for their problem-solving human power. CCP's expertise in gaming is much better than a science project team.
Jaden Noah
Trust Doesn't Rust
Goonswarm Federation
#37 - 2016-03-24 00:10:13 UTC
http://prntscr.com/aj6cjc

This happens too much and is NOT right.

There is obvious cell-to-cell variations in these and they count it wrong!
Spaminator
Commerce Trade Federation Corporation
#38 - 2016-03-24 02:46:35 UTC
Meaningful activity- fun to participate.

Thanks for the updates.



I would still like to be able to stretch the window to full window resolution. Even if it gets a bit blurry- this would help us 'large monitor folks' see things better....and improve our accuracy.

-Spaminator
Darsch Pugs
Battle Buddies
#39 - 2016-03-24 05:41:36 UTC
Murkar Omaristos wrote:
CCP Wonderboy wrote:
Hello scientists!
Feel free to leave any feedback and suggestions here, and may the cytoplasm be with you.


omg. may the cytoplasm be with youShocked


If only he had said May the mitochondria be with you.

Mitochondria. Eve. Mitochondria eve. Parasite eve!
Morgan Agrivar
Doomheim
#40 - 2016-03-24 06:18:33 UTC
As a scientist, I would like to thank CCP for corroborating with scientific researchers to further ourselves in this project. Being a member of the Chromosome 19 program for the Human Genome Project, I am thankful that you brought this to members of the gaming community in order to help further science.

Thanks!


Morgan o/