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Project Discovery - Changes to the scoring system

First post First post
Author
Demica Diaz
SE-1
#41 - 2016-03-24 10:18:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Demica Diaz
What did I not noticed in this one? I am confused Ugh
Leorajev Aubaris
Blue Goat Ltd.
#42 - 2016-03-24 11:08:09 UTC
CCP Wonderboy wrote:
Hello scientists!

However, in order to reduce the exploitability of the feature, we, in collaboration with MMOS and the HPA, have decided to stop calculating Accuracy Rating for the community consensus. Instead, we will increase the rate of training examples you get, for which you get an immediate rating.

- CCP Wonderboy



The rate of training examples should be lowered…
I got 2 immediately after another and overall I feel like its to often anyways.

Thanks.

PS: It would be really nice to see how all the samples that were rated by me were categorized finally. Don't know if it's possible, but it would help to really get a feel how those things are rated by the experts.
AMARR CITIZEN 11151215
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#43 - 2016-03-24 13:44:29 UTC
i love this portion of the game, but whenever you add incentive, you add incentive to cut corners and cheat. i know spend the vast majority of my time, if i am not running a fleet for 4's, solving these.

because i am new to protein identification, every problem takes me a very long time. upwards of 20 minutes. you REALLY have to look closely to see if what your looking at is cellular variation, or if it happens to be caused by variations in something i dont understand, like differences in space. i also see mitochondria EVERYWHERE! after getting it wrong twice, im sure ill come across it someday!

the majority of people can/will/do not have the time or patience to dedicate 20-30 minutes to properly identifying something, if they are just beginning to learn it. in fact, in missions chat and corp chat, when i asked for advice, i was simply told "just check cytoplasm, eventually youll get level 10". that, to me, was heartbreaking. it showed that those people had no appreciation for what they were participating in, and even worse, were purposefully providing false examples for the possibility of intangible recreational electronic fiscal advancement.

when you motivate someone to do something, with profit, you motivate them to do it in the most profitable way, regardless of repercussions or consequences.

in reality, the best thing ccp could do would be remove all incentives, and leave it to only the people who want to contribute in honesty and appropriateness. of course, then very few people would participate, but all the results would be reliable, and would actually contribute to this project.

as is right now, the main thing i see to be contributed thus far, is a bunch of quick, rapid, multiple "guesses" by people who dont care about the possible damage they may be doing, or complications they may be causing, to something that is actually very serious and important.

if anything, after i get better at identifying these, accurately and quickly, i will probably move to the website so the information i submit is actually analyzed and respected, instead of being lost in a meta data bank of what is mainly people "clicking for isk, not information". seeing some of the "community census", was very disappointing

*people of earth... this is why you cant have nice things*

My posts are here for me to cite when debating in chat, or as a record to devs should they wish or require them. With rare exception, i do not monitor, or reply to posts.

please take this in consideration, reply sparingly, cite your answer. thanks

Akira Kata
AkiCo LLC
#44 - 2016-03-24 16:08:14 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
Suggestion: Tie this feature into the "flying spaceships" part of the game.

Method: At data and Relic sites, add the loot item "Special biological sample". If you have a Special biological sample in your hold or hangar when you do Project Discovery, you get the option of "Analyze special sample". If you do so, you get more Kredit and ISK. The actual samples you see are the same ones we all see, you just get more reward.

If you do not want to do Project Discovery, and have some Special biological samples, you can sell them on the market (which means they need a market slot.)


This is a great idea! Big smile
Mars Aspen
Emergency Banana Straigtening Service
#45 - 2016-03-24 17:07:37 UTC
Jaden Noah wrote:
http://prntscr.com/aj6cjc

This happens too much and is NOT right.

There is obvious cell-to-cell variations in these and they count it wrong!


One would have to look at a green-only view to be able to tell
Chroniccandy 420
Doomheim
#46 - 2016-03-24 19:05:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Chroniccandy 420
I don't like project discovery. I think its wack. Twisted

I don't see how this is fun. Its a miss for me.

Sorry but WHO CARES!
Drago Shouna
Doomheim
#47 - 2016-03-24 20:54:58 UTC
Jaden Noah wrote:
http://prntscr.com/aj6cjc

This happens too much and is NOT right.

There is obvious cell-to-cell variations in these and they count it wrong!


I fully agree with you, I have looked at samples, analysed it, picked where it should go.

Only to be told it's wrong, even though it doesn't look remotely like the answer they say it should be, some couldn't look more wrong.

I'm not sure if it's a programming error or what, but it's bloody annoying.

Solecist Project...." They refuse to play by the rules and laws of the game and use it as excuse ..." " They don't care about how you play as long as they get to play how they want."

Welcome to EVE.

Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#48 - 2016-03-24 23:59:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Nevyn Auscent
Drago Shouna wrote:


I fully agree with you, I have looked at samples, analysed it, picked where it should go.

Only to be told it's wrong, even though it doesn't look remotely like the answer they say it should be, some couldn't look more wrong.

I'm not sure if it's a programming error or what, but it's bloody annoying.

More cell to cell variations has a bad example and should only be picked when half the cells have a stained nucleus and the other half don't, rather than simply a bit of brightness intensity change. I was making that mistake and E-mailed HPA about it and asked why and they said they classify it a little differently and have used their classification on the test samples. Though picking it on the community samples does let them know to look for things.

I haven't come across a single wrong test slide though, some I'd disagree with like one that had Cytoplasm+other stuff, and I didn't feel there was enough green for cyto, but I could see there was some green, so now I know another look it can have and will be able to give better answers to the other slides.
Lillik Eoner
Holey Roamin' Empire
TURBOFEED OR GLORY
#49 - 2016-03-25 00:18:48 UTC
CCP Wonderboy wrote:




This is only the first step in our attempt to improve Project Discovery and it's data quality, as we might introduce further changes to our scoring procedure. This change will also significantly reduce the heavy load on the MMOS servers and should ensure a smoother experience for everyone.



CCP Wonderboy needs to learn how to spell. Should be "its".

/lesson
Shallanna Yassavi
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#50 - 2016-03-25 01:12:38 UTC
Most of the test slides are pretty obvious. As we see more samples account-wide, it should show us trickier and messier tests.

A signature :o

Raven Dallacort
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#51 - 2016-03-25 01:29:32 UTC
I'm no scientist, but how am I wrong on this?
Limp Biscuit
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#52 - 2016-03-25 03:06:34 UTC
I'd like to be able to have the chance to review the full slide after my input has been selected, and rated. Most of the time, I can only see the portion that I locked in and selected after my input has been made, thereby not allowing me to further analyze what would have been a better choice to make, based upon consensus. To have the ability to re-examine what I was looking at, and have the correct answer displayed would be beneficial for after-study.
Maia Pallas
BlackBongWater
#53 - 2016-03-25 04:34:14 UTC
consensus wins again:

http://imgur.com/fVuUqjH
Pleasure Hub Node-514
Pleasure Hub Hotline
#54 - 2016-03-25 05:17:20 UTC
Keta Min wrote:
Vardec Crom wrote:
Keta Min wrote:
CCP Wonderboy wrote:

However, in order to reduce the exploitability of the feature, we, in collaboration with MMOS and the HPA, have decided to stop calculating Accuracy Rating for the community consensus.


This is a problematic change. Now the people who are trying to game the system have no incentive to even try to be correct on the samples that don't affect accuracy. Instead of clicking cytoplasm they can now basically click anything at all.


How will they know which ones don't affect accuracy?

Right now the sample number is a hint. Apart from that, the control samples tend to be really clear and obvious, as opposed to the vast majority of the normal samples.

Remove the sample number for starters then. I don't mind if the control samples are easy/moderate difficulty, it doesn't pay to be overly punishing to players that want to participate.

'One night hauler' The tell all story of a pleasure bot in Jita 4-4

Gantian
Gallente Equipment and Resources
#55 - 2016-03-25 06:25:50 UTC
I'd suggest having a look at players' past results, and use that to determine which types of samples most players are getting wrong.
I would then modify and expand the descriptions in order to clarify the situation in future. Like many ppl are split over whether it's Cytoplasm or Vesicles often

Also, 4 examples per category simply isn't enough - make it 8 and include 'unusual' examples maybe?

I appreciate it's a work in progress, but there's room for improvement. Fantastic idea though...
Geronimo McVain
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#56 - 2016-03-25 15:25:29 UTC
What I would love is that the examples react to the filter choices. So that you see what the examples would look with just blue or green. It would help clarifying difficult decisions.
La Ahri
Project Tetragrammaton
#57 - 2016-03-25 15:32:39 UTC
I find this change questionable at best.
It's really simple to just click random answers for everything except test questions (10000000XXX) and hit 90% accuracy in 3 hours or so.
I expect your results quality to get much worse in nearest future.
Moondo
Unforeseen Consequences.
Valkyrie Alliance
#58 - 2016-03-25 16:39:43 UTC
Mars Aspen wrote:
This seems to me like a really bad idea. It is crude and simplistic. Control examples are so obvious and


Agree. It's still fairly easy to game the system for high accuracy.

Mars Aspen wrote:
they are always of only one type.


Not true. It seems like you start to get 2-hex control samples around 85% accuracy
Moondo
Unforeseen Consequences.
Valkyrie Alliance
#59 - 2016-03-25 16:44:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Moondo
Vincent Athena wrote:
Suggestion: Tie this feature into the "flying spaceships" part of the game.

Method: At data and Relic sites, add the loot item "Special biological sample". If you have a Special biological sample in your hold or hangar when you do Project Discovery, you get the option of "Analyze special sample". If you do so, you get more Kredit and ISK. The actual samples you see are the same ones we all see, you just get more reward.

If you do not want to do Project Discovery, and have some Special biological samples, you can sell them on the market (which means they need a market slot.)


Give that man a cookie!!!! Great idea!!
Terraj Oknatis
Perkone
Caldari State
#60 - 2016-03-26 00:23:08 UTC
Well thank God its not may the midichlorians be with you. That would just be silly.