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Dev blog: Overlays, ISK Buyer Amnesty and Account Security

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Khan Wrenth
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#201 - 2016-02-24 16:06:42 UTC
Archibald Thistlewaite III wrote:
Koenig Yazria wrote:
[quote=Archibald Thistlewaite III]

Are you playing the game exclusively with what comes "out of the box", no EFT, no Dotlan, no Siggy, etc ?


No, I used EFT, Evemon(with cache scrapper turned off), Dotlan, Isboxer and Eve-preview fairly often. I'll be getting rid of Isboxer soon and I have no worries because I do not use them to break the EULA.

What difference does what 3rd-party programs I use make to anything?




I use EvEmon, but I don't know what this "cache scrapper" is. I perused the options but I didn't see anything relating to it. Since I'd like to remain on the up and up, could you provide me a quick explanation of what that is and how I'm supposed to turn it off?

Let's discuss overhauling the way we get intel in EvE.
Archibald Thistlewaite III
The Royal Society for the Prevention of Miners
#202 - 2016-02-24 16:22:54 UTC
Khan Wrenth wrote:


I use EvEmon, but I don't know what this "cache scrapper" is. I perused the options but I didn't see anything relating to it. Since I'd like to remain on the up and up, could you provide me a quick explanation of what that is and how I'm supposed to turn it off?


Open Evemon, goto tools and options, at the bottom is Market Unified Uploader, uncheck the use Market Unified Uploader box. Its a cache scrapper that sends market data to websites like eve-central, although I believe those sites now use the new API.

Either way cache scrapping does break the EULA but CCP have said they will allow it for now.


User of 'Bumblefck's Luscious & Luminous Mustachio Wax'
Khan Wrenth
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#203 - 2016-02-24 16:25:38 UTC
Archibald Thistlewaite III wrote:
Khan Wrenth wrote:


I use EvEmon, but I don't know what this "cache scrapper" is. I perused the options but I didn't see anything relating to it. Since I'd like to remain on the up and up, could you provide me a quick explanation of what that is and how I'm supposed to turn it off?


Open Evemon, goto tools and options, at the bottom is Market Unified Uploader, uncheck the use Market Unified Uploader box. Its a cache scrapper that sends market data to websites like eve-central, although I believe those sites now use the new API.

Either way cache scrapping does break the EULA but CCP have said they will allow it for now.



Thanks!

Let's discuss overhauling the way we get intel in EvE.
Xerxes Fehrnah
The Fallout Shelter
#204 - 2016-02-24 17:01:07 UTC
CCP: Vague laws without specification are only used by the dishonest and untrustworthy who intend to figure out later that they do not like something and punish it without notification, then point back to the vague rule and say "That is against the rules."

You need to specifically list out the actions and software you are banning from use one by one. Not tell us "sort of this is banned sometimes in certain cases as we see fit."

With each month of game time that goes by, a person's investment in this game and your company increases. You create mistrust and fear by putting that at risk by leaving us unclear on what is against the rules.
Tokyo Drifter
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#205 - 2016-02-24 17:29:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Tokyo Drifter
When I rat I put my clients windows over each others so that I only view capacitors and overviews.. Am I fugged? I don't use any tool.
If that indeed is considered game breaking just ban the possibility of playing with multiple instances from the same IP address and enjoy bankruptcy next year. After years of milking the same autists playing with 10 accounts instead of trying to gain a new playerbase that's how you thank their loyalty. Great.
Chalithra Lathar
Macabre Votum
Northern Coalition.
#206 - 2016-02-24 17:36:24 UTC
http://i.imgur.com/G8LGsj7.png

apparently this is banned, and CCP claims to have a way to 'detect' it.
Don't use windowed mode (or desktop window manager) if you want to avoid being banned.
Shadoroth
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#207 - 2016-02-24 17:39:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Shadoroth
Chalithra Lathar wrote:
http://i.imgur.com/G8LGsj7.png

apparently this is banned, and CCP claims to have a way to 'detect' it.
Don't use windowed mode (or desktop window manager) if you want to avoid being banned.


...That is actually more information than my current ISBoxer setup, with larger sizes in regards to the ore hold part, which is doable if I had one of those ultra-wide monitors. This rule is dumb.

For mining, the setup you posted is functionally better than my ISBoxer one, I just used ISBoxer to resize windows. I have actually busted out a calculator to make sure I get the pixels right so I can fit everything I need due to lack of screen real estate.
Archibald Thistlewaite III
The Royal Society for the Prevention of Miners
#208 - 2016-02-24 17:44:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Archibald Thistlewaite III
Chalithra Lathar wrote:
http://i.imgur.com/G8LGsj7.png

apparently this is banned, and CCP claims to have a way to 'detect' it.
Don't use windowed mode (or desktop window manager) if you want to avoid being banned.


What makes you think its 'apparently' banned?

Using windows mode is not banned.

User of 'Bumblefck's Luscious & Luminous Mustachio Wax'
Som Boty
Super Mother Fan Club
#209 - 2016-02-24 17:46:22 UTC
Chalithra Lathar wrote:
http://i.imgur.com/G8LGsj7.png

apparently this is banned, and CCP claims to have a way to 'detect' it.
Don't use windowed mode (or desktop window manager) if you want to avoid being banned.



you cheating scumbag! how dare you overlay your windows. You are the scum that is ruining this game and something about ccp and isk buying amnesty... etc, etc.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#210 - 2016-02-24 17:50:41 UTC
Archibald Thistlewaite III wrote:
Chalithra Lathar wrote:
http://i.imgur.com/G8LGsj7.png

apparently this is banned, and CCP claims to have a way to 'detect' it.
Don't use windowed mode (or desktop window manager) if you want to avoid being banned.


What makes you think its 'apparently' banned?

Using windows mode is not banned.
Dude, that exact same layout - exactly the same - using any third party tools is banned, as it allows you to see the overview of the inactive windows. That means that it must also be banned to replicate the exact same thing without software. It also means that doing it that way will look no different from CCPs point of view. As they say on the blog,
Quote:
frankly we don’t care. If you get banned, then this is because the results of what you did and how you potentially gained from it manifested in our server-side logs

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Chalithra Lathar
Macabre Votum
Northern Coalition.
#211 - 2016-02-24 17:51:06 UTC
Archibald Thistlewaite III wrote:

What makes you think its 'apparently' banned?

Using windows mode is not banned.


dude read the blog

Quote:

However, if any third party application or other software is used to gain any unfair advantage, or for purposes beyond its intended use, or if the application or other software violates other parts of the EULA, we may fully enforce our rights to prohibit such use, including player bans.

We do consider overlays using elements of a second or multiple other EVE clients to be against the rules. It changes the way the game is played and grants the player unfair advantages over other players. For example, having overviews from other EVE clients as overlays on one EVE client would allow a player to get real time intel from all those other game instances without having to switch to the other windows. Similarly, overlays using elements from a second or multiple other EVE clients to allow the player to activate modules etc. on those other game instances without switching to the other client windows are clearly in violation of our rules.


This is clearly a violation. This is the use of a third party software (Windows 7) to do exactly what is being described.
Tokyo Drifter
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#212 - 2016-02-24 17:52:01 UTC
I consider this another ninja hi-secbuff. Incursions, Missions and other activities available for hi-sec scrubs don't require multiple clients to be profitable. Just remove nullsec if all you can do is shitting over it (You even removed fun by the mean of Fozzie Sov). People in hi-sec will now make more isk by doing brain dead level 4 in perfect security.
Archibald Thistlewaite III
The Royal Society for the Prevention of Miners
#213 - 2016-02-24 17:59:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Archibald Thistlewaite III
Chalithra Lathar wrote:

dude read the blog
I have and it doesn't say that. Using the ingame window mode does not give you an unfair advantage. Every player has access to those options.
Chalithra Lathar wrote:
"However, if any third party application or other software is used to gain any unfair advantage, or for purposes beyond its intended use, or if the application or other software violates other parts of the EULA, we may fully enforce our rights to prohibit such use, including player bans.

We do consider overlays using elements of a second or multiple other EVE clients to be against the rules. It changes the way the game is played and grants the player unfair advantages over other players. For example, having overviews from other EVE clients as overlays on one EVE client would allow a player to get real time intel from all those other game instances without having to switch to the other windows. Similarly, overlays using elements from a second or multiple other EVE clients to allow the player to activate modules etc. on those other game instances without switching to the other client windows are clearly in violation of our rules."


This is clearly a violation. This is the use of a third party software (Windows 7) to do exactly what is being described.


Whilst is possible I missed the use of overlays in that screenshot. It didn't look like there were any in use. If no overlays are being used then it clearly is not a violation.

Using Eve's windowed mode is fine.
Having multiple clients open is fine.

User of 'Bumblefck's Luscious & Luminous Mustachio Wax'
Shadoroth
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#214 - 2016-02-24 18:01:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Shadoroth
Archibald Thistlewaite III wrote:
I have and it doesn't say that. Using the ingame window mode does not give you an unfair advantage. Every player has access to those options.


Every player has access to ISBoxer too. Not every player has financial access to bigger/more monitors.
ISD Max Trix
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#215 - 2016-02-24 18:11:27 UTC
Removed a post and those quoting it for Discussing Forum Moderation.

ISD Max Trix

Lieutenant

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department

I do not respond to EVE mails about forum moderation.
Som Boty
Super Mother Fan Club
#216 - 2016-02-24 18:13:31 UTC
Shadoroth wrote:
Archibald Thistlewaite III wrote:
I have and it doesn't say that. Using the ingame window mode does not give you an unfair advantage. Every player has access to those options.


Every player has access to ISBoxer too. Not every player has financial access to bigger/more monitors.


this is my biggest complaint. I play eve on a single monitor, why should my experience suffer?
Archibald Thistlewaite III
The Royal Society for the Prevention of Miners
#217 - 2016-02-24 18:17:16 UTC
Shadoroth wrote:

Every player has access to ISBoxer too. Not every player has financial access to bigger/more monitors.
Use IsBoxer if you want. Or put each individual client on its own monitor, or use window mode. Eve-o preview is also an option. Just make sure if you do use a 3rd-party program you don't use it to break the EULA.

User of 'Bumblefck's Luscious & Luminous Mustachio Wax'
Shadoroth
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#218 - 2016-02-24 18:21:50 UTC
Archibald Thistlewaite III wrote:
Shadoroth wrote:

Every player has access to ISBoxer too. Not every player has financial access to bigger/more monitors.
Use IsBoxer if you want. Or put each individual client on its own monitor, or use window mode. Eve-o preview is also an option. Just make sure if you do use a 3rd-party program you don't use it to break the EULA.


I would like to direct your attention here:

Chalithra Lathar wrote:
http://i.imgur.com/G8LGsj7.png

apparently this is banned, and CCP claims to have a way to 'detect' it.
Don't use windowed mode (or desktop window manager) if you want to avoid being banned.



with ISboxer, you can take those visible pieces of the other clients, and put them on a different part of your screen (not overlaying a different eve client). Like the example, you could also click that part of the screen, and it would focus on that client (just like in the example). The difference, however, is that with ISBoxer, there is no over-laying involved, yet with the example posted, the eve client repositioning, there IS overlay.

Therefore, the outrage is, what the actual hell is bannable, and what is not?
Archibald Thistlewaite III
The Royal Society for the Prevention of Miners
#219 - 2016-02-24 18:29:48 UTC
Shadoroth wrote:

I would like to direct your attention here:

Chalithra Lathar wrote:
http://i.imgur.com/G8LGsj7.png

apparently this is banned, and CCP claims to have a way to 'detect' it.
Don't use windowed mode (or desktop window manager) if you want to avoid being banned.



with ISboxer, you can take those visible pieces of the other clients, and put them on a different part of your screen (not overlaying a different eve client). Like the example, you could also click that part of the screen, and it would focus on that client (just like in the example). The difference, however, is that with ISBoxer, there is no over-laying involved, yet with the example posted, the eve client repositioning, there IS overlay.

Therefore, the outrage is, what the actual hell is bannable, and what is not?


Read the devblog
Point 4: "We do consider overlays using elements of a second or multiple other EVE clients to be against the rules. It changes the way the game is played and grants the player unfair advantages over other players. For example, having overviews from other EVE clients as overlays on one EVE client would allow a player to get real time intel from all those other game instances without having to switch to the other windows. Similarly, overlays using elements from a second or multiple other EVE clients to allow the player to activate modules etc. on those other game instances without switching to the other client windows are clearly in violation of our rules."

Overlays using elements of clients (or pieces to use your terminology) is what breaks the EULA. Using windowed mode does notdo that. Stop believing all the wild rumours people are spreading.

User of 'Bumblefck's Luscious & Luminous Mustachio Wax'
Som Boty
Super Mother Fan Club
#220 - 2016-02-24 18:32:54 UTC
Shadoroth wrote:
Archibald Thistlewaite III wrote:
Shadoroth wrote:

Every player has access to ISBoxer too. Not every player has financial access to bigger/more monitors.
Use IsBoxer if you want. Or put each individual client on its own monitor, or use window mode. Eve-o preview is also an option. Just make sure if you do use a 3rd-party program you don't use it to break the EULA.


I would like to direct your attention here:

Chalithra Lathar wrote:
http://i.imgur.com/G8LGsj7.png

apparently this is banned, and CCP claims to have a way to 'detect' it.
Don't use windowed mode (or desktop window manager) if you want to avoid being banned.



with ISboxer, you can take those visible pieces of the other clients, and put them on a different part of your screen (not overlaying a different eve client). Like the example, you could also click that part of the screen, and it would focus on that client (just like in the example). The difference, however, is that with ISBoxer, there is no over-laying involved, yet with the example posted, the eve client repositioning, there IS overlay.

Therefore, the outrage is, what the actual hell is bannable, and what is not?



the outrage is that people don't want to put anymore time / energy into playing a game if there is no certainty that we wont be banned.

Until yesterday, CCP has REPEATEDLY said ISBoxer is fine. So many of us have spent countless hours setting up our environments and building toons and devloping our play styles over the last years based on that information and now it just got yanked out of from underneath us.

That's my biggest complaint. This course reversal is CCP breaching their contract with their subscribers and now who the hell knows what's going to happen.