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Hi Resolution Texture Pack - Show Your Support!!!

First post First post
Author
Joe Bine
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3241 - 2016-01-28 00:41:30 UTC
Yess please
Hirisho Presolana
Evian Industries
Evictus.
#3242 - 2016-02-19 22:37:05 UTC
CCP Darwin wrote:
ReKt-X wrote:
So every current game in existence can somehow achieve HD textures yet eve cannot. Best get the art department painting!! Twisted


EVE differs from most games out there that I'm aware of that have delivered improved texture resolution as an optional addition in one key respect: The physical scale of objects in EVE ranges from a meter or so (a corpse model, or a canister) to objects more than 100 kilometers wide. In EVE you can zoom in to fill the screen with one of those 1 meter canisters, or you can zoom back to see a 100 km wide structure.

Meanwhile, many other games are scaled to the human body, so for example in a game like WoW you'll rarely see buildings more than 10 stories high, and camera angles and distances are limited in relation to this.

This makes delivering high-quality textures a much more difficult problem to solve for EVE than for other games. When you zoom in on that 100km structure to fill the screen with the 1m can sitting in front of it, we'd need the equivalent of 100 million pixels across, or 10x10^16 pixels, to retain high-resolution detail in that structure. A compressed texture map that size would be something like 10,000 terabytes.

There are various possible technical solutions to this problem. One is to add detail procedurally below a certain scale. We've considered doing this but it's a challenge to do it in a way that looks natural.

Another is to use texture tiling, which can produce acceptable results in many cases, but would require a major redesign to our art authoring process and rebuilding every single asset to exacting standards in a totally different way from how they're built now. Texture tiling also presents serious visual issues when the viewing scale reaches certain multiples of the tile spacing, and good solutions to those problems are not trivial.

Such a project would likely take years to complete and stall progress on many new art assets and features we'll want to introduce in the meantime.



what about delivering an HD texture package for the hangar only.. that's where most people have the opportunity to look at their shiny ship with peace..
it should be a gorgeous view!
at that point the HD texture can fill the proper scale of the model..
Barrett Fruitcake
Doomheim
#3243 - 2016-02-19 23:02:48 UTC
Hirisho Presolana wrote:


what about delivering an HD texture package for the hangar only.. that's where most people have the opportunity to look at their shiny ship with peace..
it should be a gorgeous view!
at that point the HD texture can fill the proper scale of the model..


As they pointed out, anything that gets released will be expected to be supported. They don't want to release a bunch of resolution specific content that would need to be updated each time they did a major graphics update.

They want to create sort of resolution independent procedurally adapted content in order to lessen the expected workload of creating new content in the future.

Or so it seems from what I read.

Moonlit Raid
State War Academy
Caldari State
#3244 - 2016-02-20 04:12:28 UTC
I fully suppoort the introduction of higher resolution textures.

If brute force isn't working, you're just not using enough.

Please Note: Any advice given comes with the caveat that nothing will be suitable for every situation.

Moskoverk Edmont
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3245 - 2016-02-20 05:21:38 UTC
+1
Daemun Khanid
Corbeau de sang
#3246 - 2016-02-20 18:07:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Daemun Khanid
Why is this thread still going? Didn't CCP flat out say "it's not happening" a few pages back? Simply because of the bulk was one reason I recall.

Edit: Just reviewed the old dev posts. Apparently it's not something thats "not happening" it's just something that isn't as simple as ppl initially thought and wont consist of just releasing new, higher res textures. Texture improvements are in the works apparently but it's a back burner project and one that will take quite a long time to fully implement.

Still begs the question... why the constant necromancy with this thread? Just let the poor thing die already.

Daemun of Khanid

Murkar Omaristos
The Alabaster Albatross
Unreasonable Bastards
#3247 - 2016-02-20 18:22:00 UTC
I too am amazed that this thread is still here.

However I'll still support it because it's something the community has wanted and asked for for a long time - probably the most consistently supported "we want this" thread I've seen on the forums.

CCP hinted at it and then backed away from it to give us updated shaders etc. instead. However I think with the new camera that shows scale better and the increasing size of objects (e.g. Citadels) low resolution of some textures will be ever more apparent.
CCP Darwin
C C P
C C P Alliance
#3248 - 2016-02-21 03:04:54 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Darwin
Barrett Fruitcake wrote:
Hirisho Presolana wrote:


what about delivering an HD texture package for the hangar only.. that's where most people have the opportunity to look at their shiny ship with peace..
it should be a gorgeous view!
at that point the HD texture can fill the proper scale of the model..


As they pointed out, anything that gets released will be expected to be supported. They don't want to release a bunch of resolution specific content that would need to be updated each time they did a major graphics update.

They want to create sort of resolution independent procedurally adapted content in order to lessen the expected workload of creating new content in the future.

Or so it seems from what I read.

Delivering higher-resolution textures isn't off the table, it's just something we prioritized below other projects we could take on that we felt would bring more visual value (including a more procedural approach.)

Making higher-res textures hangar-only would certainly be an option if performance testing with high-res textures in space yields unexpected problems. However, I think if we're going to go that far, we'd probably rather go all the way with it if we can.

We haven't forgotten high-res textures and we haven't ruled them out, we just haven't prioritized getting them into a release.

Murkar Omaristos wrote:
low resolution of some textures will be ever more apparent.

This is possibly true, and it bothers us also. We're looking at a number of changes that each should provide some incremental improvement in this area, but I'd rather not get into details right now.

CCP Darwin  •  Senior Software Engineer, Art & Graphics, EVE Online  •  @mark_wilkins

Cixi
#3249 - 2016-02-21 05:00:27 UTC
CCP Darwin wrote:
Barrett Fruitcake wrote:
Hirisho Presolana wrote:


what about delivering an HD texture package for the hangar only.. that's where most people have the opportunity to look at their shiny ship with peace..
it should be a gorgeous view!
at that point the HD texture can fill the proper scale of the model..


As they pointed out, anything that gets released will be expected to be supported. They don't want to release a bunch of resolution specific content that would need to be updated each time they did a major graphics update.

They want to create sort of resolution independent procedurally adapted content in order to lessen the expected workload of creating new content in the future.

Or so it seems from what I read.

Delivering higher-resolution textures isn't off the table, it's just something we prioritized below other projects we could take on that we felt would bring more visual value (including a more procedural approach.)

Making higher-res textures hangar-only would certainly be an option if performance testing with high-res textures in space yields unexpected problems. However, I think if we're going to go that far, we'd probably rather go all the way with it if we can.

We haven't forgotten high-res textures and we haven't ruled them out, we just haven't prioritized getting them into a release.

Murkar Omaristos wrote:
low resolution of some textures will be ever more apparent.

This is possibly true, and it bothers us also. We're looking at a number of changes that each should provide some incremental improvement in this area, but I'd rather not get into details right now.


Could you make some video to tease us ? P
Freelancer117
So you want to be a Hero
#3250 - 2016-02-21 08:34:12 UTC
CCP Games famous soon™, after 3 years still no iteration what their customers expressed what they really want Roll

Eve online is :

A) mining simulator B) glorified chatroom C) spreadsheets online

D) CCP Games Pay to Win at skill leveling, with instant gratification

http://eve-radio.com//images/photos/3419/223/34afa0d7998f0a9a86f737d6.jpg

http://bit.ly/1egr4mF

Max Kolonko
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#3251 - 2016-02-21 12:40:51 UTC
Freelancer117 wrote:
CCP Games famous soon™, after 3 years still no iteration what their customers expressed what they really want Roll


Players: We want hi-res textures!!!!

CCP: We tested it with graphics team and there was very little gain in visual. We are looking at different approaches to have better looking ships

Players: ... but...but... hi res textures :(
Rain6637
NulzSec
#3252 - 2016-02-21 12:46:42 UTC
The look of ships is one of the best things EVE has going for it right now and this white noise is making the serious issues seem less important.
Keris Bilah
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3253 - 2016-02-21 13:15:42 UTC
CCP Darwin wrote:


Delivering higher-resolution textures isn't off the table, it's just something we prioritized below other projects we could take on that we felt would bring more visual value (including a more procedural approach.)


I am very intrigued by any mention of procedural graphics generation, could you elaborate on possible applications. Are we talking about creating textures or more than just this, cos I can think of a great deal of PvE content that might benefit from a wave of some kind of procedural magic wand?

Anyway CCP Darwin it's good of you to keep in touch with the players the way you do, cheers!
Suparion Knox
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#3254 - 2016-02-21 13:16:45 UTC
Yep from me
Max Kolonko
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#3255 - 2016-02-21 13:37:12 UTC
Keris Bilah wrote:
CCP Darwin wrote:


Delivering higher-resolution textures isn't off the table, it's just something we prioritized below other projects we could take on that we felt would bring more visual value (including a more procedural approach.)


I am very intrigued by any mention of procedural graphics generation, could you elaborate on possible applications. Are we talking about creating textures or more than just this, cos I can think of a great deal of PvE content that might benefit from a wave of some kind of procedural magic wand?

Anyway CCP Darwin it's good of you to keep in touch with the players the way you do, cheers!


You do realize we are talking about procedural graphics and not procedural content in PVE? Just asking that we are on the same page - dont take it as any form off offense, I just had experience with people mixing stuff like that.

If we are on the same page - can You elaborate? apart from obviously having preatier looking stuff when zooming in what would you see as improvement in this area?
ApophisXP
Sadistic Retribution
Sadistic Empire
#3256 - 2016-02-21 13:54:01 UTC
It's something more on the lines of,

We understand our customers want Hi-Res textures... we haven't prioritized this because we're working on those high res injector textures...


Mmmmmm


On a serious note, I cant wait for these!


High res injectors that is..


lol
Darkblad
Doomheim
#3257 - 2016-02-22 07:52:54 UTC
CCP Darwin wrote:
Delivering higher-resolution textures isn't off the table, it's just something we prioritized below other projects we could take on that we felt would bring more visual value (including a more procedural approach.)

Making higher-res textures hangar-only would certainly be an option if performance testing with high-res textures in space yields unexpected problems. However, I think if we're going to go that far, we'd probably rather go all the way with it if we can.

We haven't forgotten high-res textures and we haven't ruled them out, we just haven't prioritized getting them into a release
Which year is it again?
Geronimo McVain
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3258 - 2016-02-22 09:09:21 UTC
Soyy, but when do you really need hi-res textures? Most of the time the interface ist cluttered to the point that you don't see you ship anny more.
IMHO hi-res textures for ships will do beause thats the thing you are really interested in and looking at all time. If structures etc. have visual pixels I really don't care.
CCP Darwin
C C P
C C P Alliance
#3259 - 2016-02-22 10:18:42 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Darwin

OK, fair enough. Since I've stated that we put off deploying high-resolution textures to enable other work, I thought you might appreciate having a list of highlights of what we've done with that time since last year's Fanfest:


  • Updated effects for combat and support modules
  • Redesigned Dominix
  • Updated all stations, outposts, and ships (hundreds of models!) to latest shader model
  • Kill marks on ships
  • New shield and armor effects
  • Visual damage feedback
  • New booster design.
  • In-client video playback for Eve Flight Academy videos
  • A large number of new ships, structures, and associated modules coming out in the upcoming Citadels release.
  • Numerous Mac client updates and fixes

(And also, I should note that there has been some behind-the-scenes work done to lay the groundwork for deploying higher-res textures in the future.)

When I ran the series of tests last year that showed us that doubling texture resolution wouldn't do much for the look of our game, I was very much hoping for a result that would enable me to advocate that the team should drop everything to get it done right away. Ultimately, though, there just was no way to make that argument, it just didn't add much.

I wish it were otherwise, then we'd be talking in a parallel thread about how badly we all want procedural textures.

CCP Darwin  •  Senior Software Engineer, Art & Graphics, EVE Online  •  @mark_wilkins

Lair Osen
#3260 - 2016-02-22 11:00:03 UTC
Yeah, those new shield armour and damage effects are awesome, makes me leave my Golem with only half armour.

Any update on the Hull damage FX that were supposed to be coming after? Or the new chimera, any chance of it coming with the FAXes?