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[March] Cap Battery Tiericide

First post
Author
LT Sly
The Projects
SE7EN-SINS
#61 - 2016-02-12 09:50:48 UTC
They are primarily used for the neut resist, not the cap bonus. I don't think there have been any good applications other than fitting 3-4 on a heavily neuted capital.
This will change with the introduction of stacking penalties, capital cap boosters and no in-fight refitting.

Unless you're planning to add the neut resist to Bastion/Triage/Siege I think a Rig would be a lot better.
I'm thinking mostly about armor Marauders and Capitals, cap hungry local tank and 100% chance to get blobbed.

Take the resist and put it on a Rig.

A rig could be an interesting option in exchange for rep performance, capacitor enhancements, dps or mobility without crippling them like the loss of a mid slot would in most cases.
Rek Seven
Probe Patrol
#62 - 2016-02-12 10:27:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Rek Seven
Neutralizers resistance is a much needed tool but i feel the numbers are a little low. The the neut resistance of the large cap batteries should be bigger than the small.

I wish Ancillary armour repairers didn't require cap because coupled with this neut resistance, we could see some interesting armour ships.
Anthar Thebess
#63 - 2016-02-12 10:38:01 UTC
My two cents.
No one will be rly using battery in this form.
Module need big changes to be viable.

PROPOSAL:
Make battery to work also as rechargeable cap booster.
If ship is over 80% cap half of the capacitor recharge is stored in cap battery, when battery is full it allow player do inject all stored energy to recharge capacitor up to 80%
.

New cap battery (all based on size:
+ cap bonus
+ nos/neut resist
+ excess capacitor storage and injection
Freelancer117
So you want to be a Hero
#64 - 2016-02-12 13:27:06 UTC
Nice, how you kept the energy neut/nos resistance % on par Cool
Do not forget these modules can be used for anti-gank fits while traveling.

Regards, a Freelaner

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D) CCP Games Pay to Win at skill leveling, with instant gratification

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Khan Wrenth
HC - inswineity
#65 - 2016-02-12 13:59:23 UTC
Anthar Thebess wrote:
My two cents.
No one will be rly using battery in this form.
Module need big changes to be viable.

PROPOSAL:
Make battery to work also as rechargeable cap booster.
If ship is over 80% cap half of the capacitor recharge is stored in cap battery, when battery is full it allow player do inject all stored energy to recharge capacitor up to 80%
.

New cap battery (all based on size:
+ cap bonus
+ nos/neut resist
+ excess capacitor storage and injection


I really like this idea.

But , beyond that, I want to quote someone else...

FT Cold wrote:
These still aren't going to be useful. The cap bonuses only work out to be about 15% of their respective size classes' capacitor. Even combined with their cap war resistance, they're still going to be extremely weak compared to cap injectors. In the niche instances you'd want to have a cap war resistance, a cap injector would probably still be a better choice. Moreover, the powergrid requirements for frigates are punishing, small, medium and large variants have far, far too high CPU costs. What were you guys thinking?

I just want to go off that. These modules aren't used because they are NOT useful and their fitting cost is astronomical. You get better benefits out of existing modules that have almost zero fitting requirements.

People have complained in the past that ECCM modules weren't useful outside of actually getting jammed. Where sensor boosters and tracking computers countered their respective EWAR, they still provided a bonus to the ship regardless. These batteries currently do very little for a ship not being neuted, and do not do enough for a ship that is currently being neuted.

...considering the fitting cost for the batteries.

My first choice would be to go with Anthar Thebess's idea I quoted above. It's creative, fun, and interactive, so countering neuts is viable and rewards piloting more than simply turning on a module. I don't know if you guys can code that in. If you can't, then I'm going to have to say this...fitting costs need to be half of what they are now, not increased. Every discussion I've seen of cap batteries has revolved around that one sticking point. Even if you buff them to the point where they gave neut IMMUNITY, people wouldn't use them widely because cap injectors work better and still benefit you if you use high-capacitor modules/weapons anyway.

For the pittance of benefit the batteries provide, gutting their fitting cost is the only way to make them competitive with the other tools on the table. If you don't slash the fitting costs, these modules will still be that Loch Ness Monster of the EvE Universe. "Hey man, you won't believe this, I saw a person with a capacitor battery equipped!" "No way man, that stuff isn't real, everybody knows that."

Until you make them vastly easier to fit, it doesn't matter what you do to them. They'll only be on extremely niche fits.
Templar Dane
Amarrian Vengeance
Team Amarrica
#66 - 2016-02-12 15:03:14 UTC
Gonna chime in to say that these should be amarr flavored mods. While they are the least likely to fit them because of having the lowest cpu and fewest number of midslots........

Amarr

2 drone mods
neuts
nos
armor mods
injector
cap relay
cap recharger
lasers



Minmatar


points
webs
painters
prop mods
cap batteries
most armor mods
shield mods
overdrive/nano
tracking enhancer
projectiles
launchers
BCUs


That's a list of the mods once everything is in.
Hopelesshobo
Hoboland
#67 - 2016-02-12 16:06:50 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hopelesshobo wrote:
Is it safe to assume that there will be stacking penalty on the nos/neut resistance?


Yup it gets the same kind of stacking interaction as armor/shield hardeners.


Will we be getting the nos/neut resistance added to the fitting window, or will it remain a hidden stat that we have to guesstimate where we are at?

Lowering the average to make you look better since 2012.

Kasia en Tilavine
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#68 - 2016-02-12 18:12:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Kasia en Tilavine
If these had the same fitting cost as their same size cap boosters with their current stat bonuses. They would be used. I think that would be perfect.
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#69 - 2016-02-12 18:17:54 UTC
perhaps consider making it a lowslot mod along with my proposed changes

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using

Alex Harumichi
SoE Roughriders
Electus Matari
#70 - 2016-02-12 20:32:36 UTC
Anthar Thebess wrote:
My two cents.
No one will be rly using battery in this form.
Module need big changes to be viable.

PROPOSAL:
Make battery to work also as rechargeable cap booster.
If ship is over 80% cap half of the capacitor recharge is stored in cap battery, when battery is full it allow player do inject all stored energy to recharge capacitor up to 80%
.

New cap battery (all based on size:
+ cap bonus
+ nos/neut resist
+ excess capacitor storage and injection


I like this idea. Needs fine-tuning, but that sort of "rechargable extra emergency battery" would be both useful and something a bit new.
Circumstantial Evidence
#71 - 2016-02-12 23:04:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Circumstantial Evidence
I agree with many others here, that the fitting requirements still seem high vs benefits. I use these occasionally on some cap limited highsec travel fits to get across 100+ au warps, but it's extremely rare that I would put one on a pvp fit; I don't see that changing.


Edit (added): CCP Fozzie, can you take a look at how many Micro Cap Battery - Tech 2 exist? Along with other rare (on the market at least) "micro" parts, this is a niche collectible that tiericide converts to a very common counterpart, destroying any perceived uniqueness or value. If stocks in player inventory match the market perception of rarity, would you consider a conversion to an Officer part? (err, well, something higher meta...)
Zetakya
Echelon Research
Goonswarm Federation
#72 - 2016-02-13 16:05:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Zetakya
I predict these will either be under fitted purely for resists, or over fitted for the cap on those few ships (Rook) that can fit them.

The usefulness of the appropriately sized version is roughly nil.

What would be more useful is if they also gave a bonus to cap transfer received.


Edit 1: You could also do with implementing an "Advanced Energy Grid Upgrades" skill to reduce PG use (basic "Energy Grid Upgrades" reduces CPU use)

Edit 2: While we are thinking about these modules, can you also consider the question of why Capacitor Batteries (a cap mod) require Energy Grid Upgrades, while Micro Auxiliary Power Cores (a Grid mod) require Capacitor Management?
Lena Lazair
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#73 - 2016-02-13 19:56:49 UTC
Circumstantial Evidence wrote:
Edit (added): CCP Fozzie, can you take a look at how many Micro Cap Battery - Tech 2 exist? Along with other rare (on the market at least) "micro" parts, this is a niche collectible that tiericide converts to a very common counterpart, destroying any perceived uniqueness or value. If stocks in player inventory match the market perception of rarity, would you consider a conversion to an Officer part? (err, well, something higher meta...)


No. When people speculate, they risk getting burned. That's why it's called speculating and not investing.
CaesarGREG2
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#74 - 2016-02-14 00:41:41 UTC  |  Edited by: CaesarGREG2
1.First of all i see very big change in PowerGrid usage in Learge modules was 275 on T2 module now 400+ PG?

2.Good change in resistances biger ones 20-27% :) NICE

3.Where are capital ones?

4.But NOS and Energy neutralizers should NOT have asame resistance WHY? NOS dont use your cap , Neutralizers yes.

now is good Half resistance for Neutralizers, but 12,5% now for Neutralizers is low for learge ones, because ships dont have lot mid slots.
Crazy KSK
Tsunami Cartel
#75 - 2016-02-14 06:30:44 UTC
they still suck ShockedLol

their fitting is so silly high that I wouldn't consider fitting one if it gave twice the amount of cap
with maybe 40% less pg/cpu on t2 I could see them finding use though

or consider the old stats with a cpu reduction
275pg 50cpu 700cap for t2 large sounds alright

furthermore: XL version, 1250 cap is not enough for a BS to be worth a slot its only about 1/5th of a megas cap

Quote CCP Fozzie: ... The days of balance and forget are over.

Swiftstrike1
Swiftstrike Incorporated
#76 - 2016-02-14 08:28:39 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:


We are also adding faction cap batteries for the Republic Fleet, Dominations and Thukker Tribe.

It doesn't make a great deal of sense to me that 3 factions famed for their non-reliance on cap to make cap batteries. Wouldn't it fit better to make them Amarrian or Gallente?

Casual Incursion runner & Faction Warfare grunt, ex-Wormholer, ex-Nullbear.

Shimrod Ombreflamme
L'AGENCE
In da ouarp
#77 - 2016-02-14 09:00:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Shimrod Ombreflamme
Mad Abbat wrote:
72 CPU for t2 Med battery is still a joke.
90 CPU for t2 heavy is even more of a joke.



I agree with this.

CPU and PWG needed is too high, please DO NOT make it higher.
No one will use these modules...
Solarus Explorer
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#78 - 2016-02-14 09:11:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Solarus Explorer
My sentiments tend to coincide with the poster above........ "These batteries currently do very little for a ship not being neuted, and do not do enough for a ship that is currently being neuted."

They're still pretty useless across the board, not-withstanding the absurd fitting costs.

Possibly an armor FAX would use them (and that too the small ones since its only for the neut resist) alongwith a couple capital cap boosters, i doubt they will see any use on anything else.
Gabriel Karade
Body Count Inc.
Pandemic Legion
#79 - 2016-02-14 14:10:52 UTC
Anthar Thebess wrote:
My two cents.
No one will be rly using battery in this form.
Module need big changes to be viable.

PROPOSAL:
Make battery to work also as rechargeable cap booster.
If ship is over 80% cap half of the capacitor recharge is stored in cap battery, when battery is full it allow player do inject all stored energy to recharge capacitor up to 80%
.

New cap battery (all based on size:
+ cap bonus
+ nos/neut resist
+ excess capacitor storage and injection
nice idea.

War Machine: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=386293

Lugh Crow-Slave
#80 - 2016-02-14 14:26:50 UTC
These things are in the same place as eccm you only fit them to counter a specific form of Ewar otherwise there are much better options for the firing cost.

This is how it is before this change and it will be no differant after