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[March] Sensor and ECCM Module Merger/Tiericide

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Lauren Vaille
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#61 - 2016-02-12 06:36:24 UTC
Albrecht Patrouette wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
H

These new modules will give bonuses to all four sensor strengths, as choosing the right ECCM type for your ship is not and interesting choice or valuable gameplay.

Thanks!


So . . . does that mean that having to choose the right ECM for the target ship is an "interesting choice or valuable gameplay"?

By the way, I really hate having to choose the right hardeners based upon the weapons I think might be used against me. It sucks so much having thermal used when I planned on kinetic. So . . . gonna lump those together now, too?


Comparing ECM to hardeners is a more apt comparison than you realise - you either bring the multi spec jams for a more uniform encounter AKA energized adaptives / adaptive fields or you make some bets that you'll be fighting caldari and end up having a harder time fighting minmatar when you bring kinetic hardeners to an explosive fight.

At leat ECM of the wrong race still has a chance to work, and besides, all hardeners are doing is plugging the holes in your ship's resists. If you're doing it to boost your already high resists and leaving big holes, then that's the interesting gameplay choice you made.
Lilli Tane
Deu-La-Deu
#62 - 2016-02-12 11:20:24 UTC
Interesting changes, this will simplify a lot the fittings of ECCM and SBOS,

That’s a great change

However,
Pay close attention to Logistics ships whit this change

For logistics ships, especially the cruiser size hulls, right now an ECCM is mandatory, with the changes we will be using the more fitting requirements intensive SEBOS,
well,
right now Logistic cruisers already have very intensive CPU fittings, so unless something is changed on this ships we will again have to nerf logistic cruisers tank.
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#63 - 2016-02-12 12:27:40 UTC
I really like this change.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Flyinghotpocket
Small Focused Memes
Ragequit Cancel Sub
#64 - 2016-02-12 14:08:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Flyinghotpocket
wheres the imperial navy sebos?

allegedly the 2 most advanced races in the game. and imperial navy cant make jack ****.

amarr used to have 2nd best sensor strength then got nerfed... just cuz. used to have 2nd best scan res then nerfed to 3rd and 3rd.

Amarr Militia Representative - A jar of nitro
Shilalasar
Dead Sky Inc.
#65 - 2016-02-12 14:22:02 UTC
I just realized we were finally able to reverse engineer the tech from clear skies. Blackbird jammign you? Fire up the sensorboosters.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#66 - 2016-02-13 02:11:10 UTC
Sturmwolke wrote:
Buff one of the signal amplifiers for +3 targets please Smile
Atm, the only choice is high slot T2 Auto Targeter.


There is also the low slot +1 that always goes forgotten

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Helene Fidard
CTRL-Q
#67 - 2016-02-13 18:53:18 UTC
Will sebos use the ECCM visual effects when sensor strength scripts are loaded?

Hey! I don't know about you

but I'm joining CTRL-Q
Masao Kurata
Perkone
Caldari State
#68 - 2016-02-14 01:32:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Masao Kurata
Lilli Tane wrote:
For logistics ships, especially the cruiser size hulls, right now an ECCM is mandatory, with the changes we will be using the more fitting requirements intensive SEBOS,


You're going from... 1 MW, 16 tf meta 4 eccm to... 1 MW, 16 tf T2 sebo. I don't see the problem. (For that matter I don't see any problems with these changes, the cap usage changes even make the enduring sebo and resebo useful, and these modules did indeed use too little capacitor.)
Kaldi Tsukaya
Deveron Shipyards and Technology
Citizen's Star Republic
#69 - 2016-02-14 08:02:53 UTC
Making lots of Vanilla, losing lots of flavour.

Decreasing the variants (tiericide) is good.
Merging the sebo/eccm is not.

Combat scanning took a great big nerf...
Nevil Kincade
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#70 - 2016-02-14 12:43:32 UTC
Lauren Vaille wrote:
Albrecht Patrouette wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
H

These new modules will give bonuses to all four sensor strengths, as choosing the right ECCM type for your ship is not and interesting choice or valuable gameplay.

Thanks!


So . . . does that mean that having to choose the right ECM for the target ship is an "interesting choice or valuable gameplay"?

By the way, I really hate having to choose the right hardeners based upon the weapons I think might be used against me. It sucks so much having thermal used when I planned on kinetic. So . . . gonna lump those together now, too?


Comparing ECM to hardeners is a more apt comparison than you realise - you either bring the multi spec jams for a more uniform encounter AKA energized adaptives / adaptive fields or you make some bets that you'll be fighting caldari and end up having a harder time fighting minmatar when you bring kinetic hardeners to an explosive fight.

At leat ECM of the wrong race still has a chance to work, and besides, all hardeners are doing is plugging the holes in your ship's resists. If you're doing it to boost your already high resists and leaving big holes, then that's the interesting gameplay choice you made.




You misunderstand guys,

choosing the "right" kind of ECCM for your own ship is not interesting gameplay as you know your ship and it's sensor type beforehand. There is no choice to make at all, you always pick your ship races own sensor type and buff it with the respective ECCM mod.
For remote ECCM that would be entirely different though. That choice would determine which other ships you can protect from jams.
Desiderya
Blue Canary
Watch This
#71 - 2016-02-14 16:52:59 UTC
Fozzie,

What about the four sets of racial sensor strength implants?


Ruthlessness is the kindness of the wise.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#72 - 2016-02-14 17:12:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Lugh Crow-Slave
Flyinghotpocket wrote:
wheres the imperial navy sebos?

allegedly the 2 most advanced races in the game. and imperial navy cant make jack ****.

amarr used to have 2nd best sensor strength then got nerfed... just cuz. used to have 2nd best scan res then nerfed to 3rd and 3rd.



Iirc the amarr have the most out dated navy while the caldari have the most advanced

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#73 - 2016-02-15 11:07:08 UTC
May as well just remove ECM from the game at this point.

The wishlist is pretty much complete...
Krevnos
Back Door Burglars
#74 - 2016-02-15 16:07:18 UTC
Hi Fozzie, I was just making a second review of the new stats after going through the comments here. One thing stuck out as someone mentioned that the low slot modules are uninspired and a poor alternative to the mid slot version.

I understand that one module should be generally preferable to the other, but the mid slot, in this case, is both superior in every way and scriptable. Since these modules are almost never used, I think it would be nice to give them something to help at least make them a viable choice, such as high sensor strength. Even with this they will rarely be employed, but at least it gives e-war paranoid pilots another fitting choice.

Certainly these modules need something more if you are expecting players to use them.
Lilli Tane
Deu-La-Deu
#75 - 2016-02-15 17:24:34 UTC
Masao Kurata wrote:
Lilli Tane wrote:
For logistics ships, especially the cruiser size hulls, right now an ECCM is mandatory, with the changes we will be using the more fitting requirements intensive SEBOS,


You're going from... 1 MW, 16 tf meta 4 eccm to... 1 MW, 16 tf T2 sebo. I don't see the problem. (For that matter I don't see any problems with these changes, the cap usage changes even make the enduring sebo and resebo useful, and these modules did indeed use too little capacitor.)



Yes, mid slots don’t concern me for now, (those numbers might be changed so there resides my concern), but we also use Low slots for sensor compensation in some fits.

The Meta zero Backup array goes from previously 10 CPU to 20 CPU on the Signal amplifier. That’s 100% more CPU used
The T2 Backup array goes from previously 18 CPU to 24 CPU on the Signal amplifier. That’s 33.33% more CPU used

I understand that the new SEBO´s and signal amplifiers are more powerful than the previous ECCM and Backup arrays so it makes sense they will use more fitting requirements,

I am in fact surprised that the SBOS have exactly the same fitting requirements than the previous ECCM. after all they do a lot more.

However, as stated before and I will state it again,
Logistic cruisers right now, don’t have enough CPU for planned modules changes, or will have to sacrifice ether tanking ability or repping ability, unless off course another logistics nerf is planned
Cartheron Crust
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#76 - 2016-02-16 23:27:56 UTC
Lilli Tane wrote:
However, as stated before and I will state it again,
Logistic cruisers right now, don’t have enough CPU for planned modules changes, or will have to sacrifice ether tanking ability or repping ability, unless off course another logistics nerf is planned


Good. Logistics are too strong anyway. More ships need to die.
Flyinghotpocket
Small Focused Memes
Ragequit Cancel Sub
#77 - 2016-02-17 00:39:09 UTC
i demand federation navy sebo's be replaced with imperial navy sebos. fed navy has litterally everything right next to winmatar.

so glad the 2 most advanced races in the game keep to their RP grounds when it came to warfare links. federation navy get skirmish and armor, and yet... they keep the eccm and sensor module. while amarr navy get information and armor. and yet, cant make anything.

Amarr Militia Representative - A jar of nitro
Knapstein
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#78 - 2016-02-19 19:40:02 UTC
I use both ECCM unprobable PvE ships and combatscan PvP ships.
So I wish for small change. Big smile

Sensor Booster II
SensorStrengthBonus 48%, script 96% (+100%), > Bonus 4.8%, script 96% (+1900%)
Poranius Fisc
State War Academy
Caldari State
#79 - 2016-02-23 19:18:32 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Albrecht Patrouette wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
H

These new modules will give bonuses to all four sensor strengths, as choosing the right ECCM type for your ship is not and interesting choice or valuable gameplay.

Thanks!


So . . . does that mean that having to choose the right ECM for the target ship is an "interesting choice or valuable gameplay"?

By the way, I really hate having to choose the right hardeners based upon the weapons I think might be used against me. It sucks so much having thermal used when I planned on kinetic. So . . . gonna lump those together now, too?


Those both depend on collecting or predicting information that may be unknown or may change (what race of ship you'll be facing and what damage type you're receiving (PVE is a known quantity but that's a different issue)). What ship you are currently flying is always information that is available to you.


Or you just wanted to buff T1 Logi. Unscripted they will have a bonus to sensor strength and targeting range for the price of one module eliminating ewar that could be placed against them, only sensor damps or ecm on the field? swap a script if it is T2, if its a T1, you should still be good unscripted.

any range kiter/sniper just loved you for this too.

So im going to lump this in to you or whoever was in a Logi ship that got jamed out "Because of Falcon!".
Poranius Fisc
State War Academy
Caldari State
#80 - 2016-02-23 21:01:02 UTC
Lauren Vaille wrote:
Albrecht Patrouette wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
H

These new modules will give bonuses to all four sensor strengths, as choosing the right ECCM type for your ship is not and interesting choice or valuable gameplay.

Thanks!


So . . . does that mean that having to choose the right ECM for the target ship is an "interesting choice or valuable gameplay"?

By the way, I really hate having to choose the right hardeners based upon the weapons I think might be used against me. It sucks so much having thermal used when I planned on kinetic. So . . . gonna lump those together now, too?


Comparing ECM to hardeners is a more apt comparison than you realise - you either bring the multi spec jams for a more uniform encounter AKA energized adaptives / adaptive fields or you make some bets that you'll be fighting caldari and end up having a harder time fighting minmatar when you bring kinetic hardeners to an explosive fight.

At leat ECM of the wrong race still has a chance to work, and besides, all hardeners are doing is plugging the holes in your ship's resists. If you're doing it to boost your already high resists and leaving big holes, then that's the interesting gameplay choice you made.




But you also know what your going to get with hardners. RNG will beat you every time you really need it in your favor.