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[March] ECM Tiericide

First post
Author
CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#1 - 2016-02-11 18:26:53 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Fozzie
Hello everyone!
We're planning a huge set of module tiericide in our March release and this thread will serve as the feedback location for changes to ECM and Burst Jammers.

This is a big group of modules, and we're making some light changes to module stats (mainly range tweaks) as well as some significant clarifying changes to the module names.

For ECM Bust modules, we are adding a new set of faction and officer bursts from the Rogue Drones. We are also rechristening the groups as "Burst Jammers" so that we can more easily distinguish between the two in bonus text.

Here's the most recent iteration of the numbers:
[img]http://content.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/67557/1/ECM.jpg[/img]

We're very interested in your feedback on all these changes. We'll be releasing them to Singularity next week if all goes well, so that you can try these and all the other module changes planned for the March release. Please use this thread for passing along your feedback, and we'll be reading.

Thanks!

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie

CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#2 - 2016-02-11 18:27:05 UTC
Reserved

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie

Asher Elias
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#3 - 2016-02-11 20:06:54 UTC
Are ECM bursts going to have falloff apply now? If so how will it work?
Sydious
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#4 - 2016-02-11 20:10:15 UTC
No empire faction or officer ecm?
Mark Hadden
Russian Thunder Squad
WE FORM V0LTA
#5 - 2016-02-11 20:24:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Mark Hadden
keep dumbing down your game for idiots who cant remember which ECM module is against which race.
Why dont you rename "radar" to "amarr", "ladar" to "minmatar" etc.. while you are at it, makes it even easier for rtards.

Or go even one step further and get rid of race names and call them like red, green, yellow and blue maybe? For those who cant deal with race names and mix them together. This would make sure even the least intelligent moron would be able to safely apply right ewar modules onto enemy ships.
Gaius Superbus
North Providence Trade Company
#6 - 2016-02-11 20:29:05 UTC
What are the arguments for not making ECM scriptable? Of course this would make them stronger but a nerf to the overall strength would eliminate that and we could get rid off so many of these modules...
Barnacle Jakuard
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2016-02-11 20:45:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Barnacle Jakuard
Mark Hadden wrote:
keep dumbing down your game for idiots who cant remember which ECM module is against which race.
Why dont you rename "radar" to "amarr", "ladar" to "minmatar" etc.. while you are at it, makes it even easier for rtards.


Right, because obviously Eve is currently incredibly accessible for new players without any bizarre arcane rules left in place from many years ago for Bob-only-knows what reason. If something this minor gets your knickers in that much of a twist, I can only imagine what your thoughts on the proposed sebo/ECCM merger are...



Back on topic. I'm of the mindset that scriptable ECM modules would make more sense than this series of changes, but am glad to see jammer names getting a clarification treatment.
Sahriah BloodStone
No.Mercy
Triumvirate.
#8 - 2016-02-11 20:57:44 UTC
Is CCP looking at changing the core mechanic of RNG ECM jamming at all or are you intentionally leaving it alone?

Sahriah Bloodstone

No.Mercy // Triumvirate

"Never underestimate your enemy or disrespect its abilities. If you do, you shall become the hunted "

Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc
Tactical-Retreat
#9 - 2016-02-11 21:07:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Altrue
Why not remove all this racial stuff and make ECM scriptables? Especially now that ECCMs are integrated into a widespread module that is sensor boosters...



Suggestion:

Not really expecting it since it's way more dev-intensive than tweaking numbers, but what about sensor strength turning into a ressource much like capacitor ? With the same passive regeneration curve.

Remove the random element of ECMs, have them slowly take away chunks of the target's sensor strength until it's unable to lock. With sebos and remote sebos acting as "logi" on your sensor strength.

No more randomness. More fairness for both the ECM (ensured efficiency, albeit after some time) and its victim (fair time to kill the ECM or "broadcast for ECCM").

Signature Tanking Best Tanking

[Ex-F] CEO - Eve-guides.fr

Ultimate Citadel Guide - 2016 EVE Career Chart

Lelob
SniggWaffe
Pandemic Horde
#10 - 2016-02-11 21:22:54 UTC
Please increase cap consumption to above 400-600 so ecm bursting inties die out.
Hold Alpha
Doomheim
#11 - 2016-02-11 21:25:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Hold Alpha
Mark Hadden wrote:
keep dumbing down your game for idiots who cant remember which ECM module is against which race.
Why dont you rename "radar" to "amarr", "ladar" to "minmatar" etc.. while you are at it, makes it even easier for rtards.

Or go even one step further and get rid of race names and call them like red, green, yellow and blue maybe? For those who cant deal with race names and mix them together. This would make sure even the least intelligent moron would be able to safely apply right ewar modules onto enemy ships.


Completely agree. In fact CCP should translate all modules and UI elements to icelandic, to add the kind of complexity the game craves, and show how elite the True Eve Players are.
Anthar Thebess
#12 - 2016-02-11 21:30:00 UTC
Pirate LP store version missing here too.
unidenify
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#13 - 2016-02-11 21:36:50 UTC
Overall:
am little disappointment that Meta ECM is no longer best module but that is to be expected
noted that Dread Gurista Multi ECM get buff

But big issue would be ECCM merge into SEBO in other thread. will CCP think to buff ECM or buff ECM boat if it turn out that more people carry SEBO to counter Jam?
Moac Tor
Cyber Core
Immediate Destruction
#14 - 2016-02-11 22:00:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Moac Tor
unidenify wrote:
Overall:
am little disappointment that Meta ECM is no longer best module but that is to be expected

Why...That was quite possibly the most illogical and unintuitive case with any of the old meta system. I'm glad to see T2 ECM finally gain its rightful place with these proposed changes.
Mr Rive
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
#15 - 2016-02-11 22:01:05 UTC
I still think there is a bigger problem with ecm drones, and perhaps ECM as a whole, that needs to be considered.

All other forms of ECM are scripted, they either provide a range or effectiveness of some kind of ship attribute, reducing the effect of one of these ships attributes or another. Tracking disruptors are useless against missile ships, sensor damps are useless against most ships with one or more sensor boosters with the right script in. Yes, tracking disruptors and sensor damps CAN be devastating, but only when applied to the right kind of ship, with the right kind of modules, and can be countered in a number of ways.

If you look at ECM drones in particular, no matter what ship they are on, be it an ishtar, which has bonuses to drones, or a vagabond, which doesn't, they have the same effects. This means, that an ishtar, whose DPS comes from it's drones, would basically become as effective as any other ship while launching ecm drones. It incentivises players to use ecm drones on a ship with no bonuses and a small drone bay.

Their effects are also FAR in excess of any other drone based warfare platform. t2 light drones do approximately 70-100 dps for a full flight, which, unless one is facing frigates is marginal, yet ecm drones get one jam strength for EVERY race, which might not seem like much, but is 40% more effective than an unbonused multispectral collectively. This doesn't illustrate their strength though, as 5 small chances to jam a target is much more effective than a single, slightly stronger chance.

The TLDR is, ECM drones are broken, boring to play with, and add nothing of value to the game other than annoyance. They involve no skill to use, but can shut down a ship for TWENTY SECONDS, and this happens far too often. Any ship without at least one ECCM module knows they are going to be jammed by ECM drones at some point in the fight. That's why everyone uses them.

ECM is another story. Again, there is very little skill in using ECM. Unlike sensor damps and tracking diruptors where one has a choice, and that choice dictates the way combat is going to go, whether it be through range disrupting your opponent's guns, therefore keeping at range of them to take advantage of it, or sensor dampening your opponent with scan resolution scrips, so their logistics take a long time to lock your primary, damps and tracking disruptors are both an engaging and fun, and often decisive way combat plays out.

ECM on the other hand is just a question of 'did you fit ECCM and have enough gang links to hopefully counter the inablity for your ship to lock anything for 20 seconds or more?' It's a random 'I win button', with very little tactic or pre-thought involved.

I suggest you do with ECM what you did with other ewar modules. Give ECM two scripts. One gives the ECM a longer jamming time, the other significantly reduces the jamming time, but increases the strength of the ecm. Alternatively, one could make it so that the more sensor integrity the hostile ship has, the more capacitor it costs to use ECM modules in order to try and counter them, although this might be more server load than you would be willing to introduce for one module (you did it for cap batteries though!).

I strongly suggest you remove light ECM drones altogether, perhaps even medium ECM drones. No other race gets a light and medium variant of ECM drones, so why should caldari? Light ECM drones mean there is simply no reason not to fit them on every ship you own. Their speed means no ship can outrun them other than linked ceptors, and their size means if you don't have at least a single flight in your ship, you're doing something wrong. Also, ECM drones should stop jamming a target if they stray out of their optimal range, much like normal drones stop being able to hit. I have had ecm drones which I have burned 30km away from continue to jam me for the remainder of their cycle.

The TLDR is, ECM is neither fun, engaging, or challenging, in fact, it is the opposite of all three. There is no element of strategy involved with ECM or ECM drones. Compare the arazu to the falcon, and in a fight, there is simply no competition to which you would prefer to have in a small gang. I mean hell, even the arazu will be packing ECM drones.
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#16 - 2016-02-11 22:29:25 UTC
pls just remove ecm until you can think up an acceptable new mechanic
Soldarius
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#17 - 2016-02-11 22:36:07 UTC
Mr Rive wrote:
I suggest you do with ECM what you did with other ewar modules. Give ECM two scripts. One gives the ECM a longer jamming time, the other significantly reduces the jamming time, but increases the strength of the ecm.


HAHAHAHAHAHHHHAAH plz do this CCP. I want to watch Mr Rive cry bloody murder when his titan gets permajammed by an ibis.

http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY

Mr Rive
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
#18 - 2016-02-11 22:40:16 UTC
Soldarius wrote:
Mr Rive wrote:
I suggest you do with ECM what you did with other ewar modules. Give ECM two scripts. One gives the ECM a longer jamming time, the other significantly reduces the jamming time, but increases the strength of the ecm.


HAHAHAHAHAHHHHAAH plz do this CCP. I want to watch Mr Rive cry bloody murder when his titan gets permajammed by an ibis.


Jokes on you I dont own a titan :smug:
FOl2TY8
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2016-02-11 22:47:30 UTC
Mark Hadden wrote:
keep dumbing down your game for idiots who cant remember which ECM module is against which race.
Why dont you rename "radar" to "amarr", "ladar" to "minmatar" etc.. while you are at it, makes it even easier for rtards.

Or go even one step further and get rid of race names and call them like red, green, yellow and blue maybe? For those who cant deal with race names and mix them together. This would make sure even the least intelligent moron would be able to safely apply right ewar modules onto enemy ships.


Do you have to be hospitalized every time Mountain Dew changes it's packaging?
Mad Abbat
Talon Swarm
#20 - 2016-02-11 22:49:02 UTC
Mr Fozzie, E-war Drones?
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