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Dev blog: Structure fitting in the EVE: Citadel Expansion

First post
Author
Raphendyr Nardieu
Avanto
Hole Control
#21 - 2016-02-10 16:50:26 UTC
John McCreedy wrote:
Fuelling stations now, great. The game is getting further and further away from the things that make it fun and clogging you down with more and more micromanagement. You should be freeing up our time to focus on the fun things in Eve, not tying us down further with logistics.


Well. I see your point, but I presume you are meaning that you need to start fueling stuctures that replace outposts as nothing is chanhed for the stations.

Also, in the other hand. There will be lot of people with e.g. medium Citadels who don't need to fuel them at all! So it's so much easier for them compared to current POSes.

Also, if you want easy XL citadel to replace your outpost, don't add any services to it. Whow. no fuel costs...

Note also that getting and transporting fuel t your citadel can be content to others.
Mynxee
Signal Cartel
EvE-Scout Enclave
#22 - 2016-02-10 16:52:45 UTC
It is fun to watch this feature developing...going to be a great and fun change in New Eden when they roll out.

Tiny whine: If only the Astrahus could fit a "country store" version of the Market module, maybe something that imposed a very tight constraint on categories and number of different items that could be listed for sale.

Quote:
Citadels focus on defense, logistics, and office capabilities, which make them naturally good as staging points. Other structures we will introduce with time will tackle other fields like industry, resource harvesting, propaganda, intelligence or even long distance movement.


That's very intriguing for the future!

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Cristl
#23 - 2016-02-10 16:54:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Cristl
Lowsec citadels won't be able to cast chain lightning? Sad

Edit: actually, there is some ambiguity here, since this picture suggests you can fit the doomsday outside of highsec, but this picture suggests it's nullsec only.

Clarification CCPlease.
EvilweaselFinance
GoonCorp
Goonswarm Federation
#24 - 2016-02-10 16:54:45 UTC  |  Edited by: EvilweaselFinance
For reprocessing rigs, do those percentages mean:

1) Only drilling rigs can fit those rigs?
2) Citadels can fit those rigs but only drilling rigs will get the percentages listed once you include their bonus?
3) Citadels can fit those rigs and get that bonus, but drilling rigs will get a better bonus?

edit: answered on slack:

Quote:

CCP Nullarbor [11:53 AM]
values shown are for the Citadel (for now)
CCP Nullarbor [11:53 AM]
we may nerf them later when the drilling platform is available, in which case we'll let you refit them
Mostlyharmlesss
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#25 - 2016-02-10 16:56:27 UTC
Looking at the bonuses I'm wondering - Why would anyone ever deploy these in null sec or even low sec?

I thought the bonuses were there to help lure players to null or low sec - Yet according to this there is barely any difference. Also, seriously, who is going to field 150 man battleship fleet to kill an XL Citadel in high sec for the 2-3 hours a day during downtime.

( Source: http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/citadels-sieges-and-you-v2/ )

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Messenger Of Truth
Butlerian Crusade
#26 - 2016-02-10 16:56:47 UTC
Will we be able to set citadels as destinations for courier contracts? And will we be able to set autopilots to citadels? These features seem somewhat important for citadels with the market hub service installed.

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TigerXtrm
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#27 - 2016-02-10 17:03:28 UTC
My fuelblocks are ready! Twisted

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Querns
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#28 - 2016-02-10 17:04:26 UTC
Actually, thinking on it -- why can citadels have a reprocessing service module at all? It isn't needed in the interim of citadels release to outpost removal, because, presumably, drilling platforms will be available.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

EvilweaselFinance
GoonCorp
Goonswarm Federation
#29 - 2016-02-10 17:05:07 UTC  |  Edited by: EvilweaselFinance
To elaborate on the issue, currently nullsec gets up to 60% refines while highsec gets up to 52%. This was a critical change in revitalizing industry in nullsec. It was also absolutely critical to allow nullsec to actually use the ability to collect a refine tax: by setting the refine tax so that it's less than the nullsec bonus, there's no incentive to dodge taxes by compressing and exporting to empire like there used to be. Until this change refine taxes were basically broken, and will go right back to being broken - which is a problem as this is one of the "bottom-up" income streams that CCP has been trying to move alliances to instead of point sources like moons.

It both seriously hurts nullsec industry (and, the ship traffic involved in nullsec industry that builds content for people attacking nullsec), and seriously hurts the ability of alliances to recoup their citidel/drilling rig investments thorough taxes.

Seperately, allowing lowsec to get 60% refines, while Thukker Assembly Arrays (which were put into the game to compensate lowsec for not getting 60% refines for capbuilding) still exist is insanely unbalanced. Those would need to get removed or we're back to where it only makes sense to build capitals in lowsec.
Adarnof
Super Secret Spaceship Syndicate
#30 - 2016-02-10 17:08:31 UTC
Adding an additional 1200m3 of strontium (or even just 300m3 of compressed krystallos) per fuel block batch is a bit excessive.

No point in continuing to make fuel in my wormhole.
Raphendyr Nardieu
Avanto
Hole Control
#31 - 2016-02-10 17:08:34 UTC
Messenger Of Truth wrote:
Will we be able to set citadels as destinations for courier contracts?


As talked in slack, courier contracts are not going to work on release. There was a bit interation on ideas how they could be implemented. (e.g. thing what happens if citadel explodes while courier contract is on route), To me it seems that CCP want's to get these working at some point of time.
Raphendyr Nardieu
Avanto
Hole Control
#32 - 2016-02-10 17:13:05 UTC
EvilweaselFinance wrote:
To elaborate on the issue, currently nullsec gets up to 60% refines while highsec gets up to 52%. This was a critical change in revitalizing industry in nullsec. It was also absolutely critical to allow nullsec to actually use the ability to collect a refine tax: by setting the refine tax so that it's less than the nullsec bonus, there's no incentive to dodge taxes by compressing and exporting to empire like there used to be. Until this change refine taxes were basically broken, and will go right back to being broken - which is a problem as this is one of the "bottom-up" income streams that CCP has been trying to move alliances to instead of point sources like moons.

It both seriously hurts nullsec industry (and, the ship traffic involved in nullsec industry that builds content for people attacking nullsec), and seriously hurts the ability of alliances to recoup their citidel/drilling rig investments thorough taxes.

Seperately, allowing lowsec to get 60% refines, while Thukker Assembly Arrays (which were put into the game to compensate lowsec for not getting 60% refines for capbuilding) still exist is insanely unbalanced. Those would need to get removed or we're back to where it only makes sense to build capitals in lowsec.


I presume you know there will be structures designed more to refining and compressing tasks? I presume that these serrivces are released on citadel expansion as they are really simple to implement. As you notice, there is only 4 services on start and 2 of them are relatively simple compared to other 2. And as there will not be the structure for reprocessing, existing modules should not be going away before that. So what we have now, should be there until we actually have replacement.
Sir SmashAlot
The League of Extraordinary Opportunists
Intergalactic Conservation Movement
#33 - 2016-02-10 17:17:45 UTC
Do the Citadel EWar modules work on a single target or group of targets? For high sec it would be a simple as bring 6 to 10 logi and both ewar and DPS will be negated. Maybe that is intentional.

Currently a large POS can have significant ewar potential to counter a large logistics wing for very little cost in DPS.
CCP Ytterbium
C C P
C C P Alliance
#34 - 2016-02-10 17:25:20 UTC
To answer a few points listed so far:


  • Docking capacity is infinity yes. So you can dock as many capitals or supercapitals as you like. - MuraSaki Siki
  • No special bonuses for FW space as for now, something we are considering for long term however. - Berluth Luthian
  • The 3 / 6 hours timers were made to cater to more casual corporation than large and organized alliances. We want small corporation in high-sec to be able to deploy one of those and not fitted drained for having to guard them too long every week. - Aryth
  • We will iterate on reprocessing capabilities to give a higher impact between high and null-sec yes, 1% isn't enough of a difference. - Querns
  • Keep in mind those structures replace both Starbases and Outposts. As such, the fueling system is an improvement over existing Starbases since you only need to fuel the service modules. Sorry but we are not going to give such advanced service facilities for free. - John McCreedy
  • Oops, forgot to mention the Citadels will be able to use the same fighter mechanics than revamped Capitals, good point. - Captain Campion
  • Reprocessing rigs are part of the drilling specialization yes, but we wanted to give them to you right now as they provide significant value. Ideally you wouldn't get such high rates on a Citadel, but we'll leave these numbers until we introduce the Drilling Platform, then reduce them and potentially offer a rig removal. - Hendrink Collie
  • Structure Guided Bombs are still heavily WIP. Playtests showed us they are quite OP at the moment. - Current Habit
  • No bounties on Citadels. - Captain Campion
  • Structure zapping doomsday in low-sec, being investigated. - The Primary Target
  • Citadels won't come with contracts to begin with unfortunately. We plan to fix that in the future though, as it limits trading. - Messenger Of Truth
  • Structure service modules aren't exclusive to the various structure classes. You can fit manufacturing or reprocessing into a Citadel, they just won't be as efficient than on their specialized structure hulls. We added reprocessing because it's a nice plus as a first package. - Querns
  • EW modules are single target for now, except for the Repulsor Field aka bumping module. - Sir SmashAlot
Querns
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#35 - 2016-02-10 17:29:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Querns
Thanks for the reply.

Another question: adding 400 stront to the build reqs of fuel blocks increases the m^3 required to build fuel blocks considerably. Is this intended? I'd argue to lower the m^3 of stront, but that has knock-on effects with regards to siege, triage, and titans. Are there any metrics on how much stront gets used in a given time period due to POS reinforcement, across all of Eve?

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

Aryth
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#36 - 2016-02-10 17:31:40 UTC
When you iterate on the refine. Keep in mind the current bonus's are much larger in null and even that isn't enough to see much refining.

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EvilweaselFinance
GoonCorp
Goonswarm Federation
#37 - 2016-02-10 17:33:24 UTC
What does the PI and Customs Office part of an XL office/market rig do?
Two step
Aperture Harmonics
#38 - 2016-02-10 17:36:33 UTC
Calibration seems a bit useless right now. It is not currently possible to ever have calibration issues when fitting a Medium or Large Citadel.

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CCP Ytterbium
C C P
C C P Alliance
#39 - 2016-02-10 17:37:22 UTC
EvilweaselFinance wrote:
What does the PI and Customs Office part of an XL office/market rig do?


Crap, forgot to remove that from the rig name from my evil master plan excel sheet Oops.

Nothing for now, but we have future plans.

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Taosst
Black Night Industries
BORE
#40 - 2016-02-10 17:38:17 UTC
I see rigs to increase the Office number, but no mention of a base number to start. Do the Citadels only house the corp that deployed it unless additional rigs are used ?