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[February] Force Auxiliary Skills

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Tawaif
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#181 - 2016-02-09 10:12:01 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Morrigan LeSante wrote:
Confirming drone interfacing is useful to my dedicated logi/triage pilot. Jesus.

I get it, you're of the **** the old guys generation. Enjoy your game.

Confirming missile skills were useful to a dedicated Naglfar pilot.
CCP have changed ship roles many a time in the past which left a 'dedicated' pilot of just that ship with skills that were no longer applicable to that ship.
That however is not CCP's problem in overall game design but yours in insisting that the only ship you can and will ever fly is that particular ship.

Oh and CCP have never encouraged us to have alts that are specialized.
Morrigan LeSante
Perkone
Caldari State
#182 - 2016-02-09 10:42:36 UTC
I'm done arguing with people who have never sat in a carrier. That the only people who are happy about this are those enjoying a healthy dose of jealously driven schadenfreude and not actual credible cap pilots. Hell the entire focus group think's its a crappy way to handle this.

However when this precedent comes around to something you do care about, I'll be sure to remind you all to htfu.


And I don't even fly triage so these don't affect me, but even so I can see it's an awful, awful way to be handling this. A real two fingers to people.
Edward Olmops
Gunboat Commando
#183 - 2016-02-09 11:02:27 UTC
Guys. Really. Yes, some of us have 2 or 5 characters with maxed out skills for several racial capitals. But. We are flying multi-billion ISK capital ships. Into combat, for ratting or just ship spinning.

We are talking about a few hundred mil or a few bil (and the latter only for those among us who spend the same amount each month on subscriptions).
Just go out and make ISK for a few hours - if you are max skill (and I mean player ;-) ), you should know how.
Yes I know that everyone has a Jita alt and likes haggling and free stuff, but we could really do better things than starting a forum war over nothing (like log in and fly spaceships).
I am really confident that no new players or spacepoor people are hurt by the suggested transition procedure.

In short: to solve this whole reimbursement issue...
STOP BEING POOR!
Alex Harumichi
SoE Roughriders
Electus Matari
#184 - 2016-02-09 11:06:22 UTC
Well, I have carrier V, and don't really mind this change and the sp reinbursement seems more or less fair. So I have to inject a (race) fax skill, and I'll later have an option of moving all of my carrier points to fax, if I choose. Or of swapping carriers, or whatever. I can fly t2 triage now, and I'll be able to fly t2 triage when this goes live (if I choose).

The only problem is that now I need to pick a fax skill that matches my current carrier, with no info on what carrier & fax I want to fly after this goes live. On the other hand, I'm sure we'll get stats etc later, so I can wait on the skillbook buy until then.

One suggestion to CCP: would it make sense to just allow all carries sps to be reallocated, with no other strings attached and no fax skill requirements? That would allow people who are no longer happy with the new cap ships to go do something else, and it would also allow people to switch carrier race without paying potentially useless fax skill "tax".
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#185 - 2016-02-09 11:22:09 UTC
Morrigan LeSante wrote:

However when this precedent comes around to something you do care about, I'll be sure to remind you all to htfu.

You mean like every single subcap role change that has been done as part of tiericide that you have said 'HTFU' to in response to complaints already? Though I'll admit I've said the same thing to most of them also.
This is nothing to do with what I can or can not do, especially since I've just finished training carrier pre-reqs in order to fly a multirole carrier if I want and now have to reassess the budget needed to do that.

This is to do with the fact that this is not a precedent, the precedents have been and gone years previous and CCP are actually being more generous to cap pilots than they were to anyone else affected by their similar subcap changes.
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#186 - 2016-02-09 11:26:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Crosi Wesdo
Very Aggressive Reacharound wrote:
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
Would have been a lot simpler to just convert 'tactical logistics recon' to the new FAX skill. And base the performance of triage on that.


^this and it should be non racial its giant logistics and to train carrier and fax would still be long train but you could cross train easier much like current logistics. if it works for other logistics why change it for carrier... oh wait i forgot you hirred Maria Sayans and you have to make people pay for injectors.



Tbh, the best solution was to not introduce a new skill at all. There was zero need to.

The frigate skills covers a range of DPS ships and logistics.
The cruiser skills covers a range of DPS ships and logistics.

Why cant the carrier skills cover DPS and logistics also with other module/drone related skills dictating its performance in its roll like every other T1 ship.

The fact that there is a new skill at all makes the CCPs motivation abundantly clear.

I made a thread in GD a few days ago with the same point which was locked because of purile fanboys like Tippia spergng the thread and it was ultimately locked with:

ISD Buldath wrote:
The new Fax is a big imprvement to the game and changes the ways how capital logistics work. It is not " An archon with a new skin. "

Besides, its going to be fun for the first month watching people race too 5. Going to be a good month. Also locked.


Nor is a bantam a kestrel with a new skin, nor is an augorer a maller with a new skin.

You guys over at CCP have a very different idea of fun to me. Perhaps ypu are referring to the swelling of the beer budget from all that AUR money you expect to see. Hope it doesnt cost you more than you gain.
Skia Aumer
Planetary Harvesting and Processing LLC
#187 - 2016-02-09 11:40:03 UTC
CCP Larrikin wrote:
when the citadels expansion launches

How much time do we have?
Anthar Thebess
#188 - 2016-02-09 11:42:47 UTC
Edward Olmops wrote:
Guys. Really. Yes, some of us have 2 or 5 characters with maxed out skills for several racial capitals. But. We are flying multi-billion ISK capital ships. Into combat, for ratting or just ship spinning.

We are talking about a few hundred mil or a few bil (and the latter only for those among us who spend the same amount each month on subscriptions).
Just go out and make ISK for a few hours - if you are max skill (and I mean player ;-) ), you should know how.
Yes I know that everyone has a Jita alt and likes haggling and free stuff, but we could really do better things than starting a forum war over nothing (like log in and fly spaceships).
I am really confident that no new players or spacepoor people are hurt by the suggested transition procedure.

In short: to solve this whole reimbursement issue...
STOP BEING POOR!

It is not about being poor ( what is recently bad thing in the eyes of CCP devs )
Its about 'pay for and train every thing twice' because new monetarization guys demand this.

Stop discrimination, help in a fight against terrorists

Show your support to The Cause!
S810 Jr
Lowlife.
Snuffed Out
#189 - 2016-02-09 11:46:33 UTC
When will the dev blog be out telling up the 'set in stone' stats for the 4 faxs?

We are being told to train the new skills and that we have time to train then but not being told what those skills will even do on the different fax hulls.

' oh just train the Armar one for armour' is NOT good enough!

For the price of those skill books I want to know what I'll be getting.
Forlorn Wongraven
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#190 - 2016-02-09 11:55:58 UTC
Sisi prices are live on TQ now.

Winner ATXI , 3rd place ATXII, winner ATXIII, 2nd ATXIV - follow me on twitter: @ForlornW
Anthar Thebess
#191 - 2016-02-09 11:59:24 UTC
S810 Jr wrote:
When will the dev blog be out telling up the 'set in stone' stats for the 4 faxs?

We are being told to train the new skills and that we have time to train then but not being told what those skills will even do on the different fax hulls.

' oh just train the Armar one for armour' is NOT good enough!

For the price of those skill books I want to know what I'll be getting.

Information about Fax is not enough.
They will be using reps on something so stats for supers, dreads, combat capitals.
What we know about titans? They will be getting new doomsdays.
Dreads? Ship and fleet hangars
Motherships ? ??????

Citadels, they will also define what you will bring on field.

Maybe after knowing this you will not aim into the amarr fax, but minmatar one as for some strange reason it will be only Fax capable surviving on the new battlefield.

Stop discrimination, help in a fight against terrorists

Show your support to The Cause!
S810 Jr
Lowlife.
Snuffed Out
#192 - 2016-02-09 12:33:53 UTC
Anthar Thebess wrote:
S810 Jr wrote:
When will the dev blog be out telling up the 'set in stone' stats for the 4 faxs?

We are being told to train the new skills and that we have time to train then but not being told what those skills will even do on the different fax hulls.

' oh just train the Armar one for armour' is NOT good enough!

For the price of those skill books I want to know what I'll be getting.

Information about Fax is not enough.
They will be using reps on something so stats for supers, dreads, combat capitals.
What we know about titans? They will be getting new doomsdays.
Dreads? Ship and fleet hangars
Motherships ? ??????

Citadels, they will also define what you will bring on field.

Maybe after knowing this you will not aim into the amarr fax, but minmatar one as for some strange reason it will be only Fax capable surviving on the new battlefield.


That is my very point. We've not been given ANY information about what the skill even does on a hull let alone how it interacts with the changes to other hulls and new structures.
Luscius Uta
#193 - 2016-02-09 12:48:02 UTC
I noticed that the skills for Light Fighter Squadrons and Support Fighter Squadrons have the same multiplier as the Fighter and Fighter Bomber skills. I fail to see much sense in it, since light drone skill has lower multiplier than heavy drone skill.

Workarounds are not bugfixes.
Theon Severasse
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#194 - 2016-02-09 13:03:03 UTC
Luscius Uta wrote:
I noticed that the skills for Light Fighter Squadrons and Support Fighter Squadrons have the same multiplier as the Fighter and Fighter Bomber skills. I fail to see much sense in it, since light drone skill has lower multiplier than heavy drone skill.


From a game design point of view you are correct. But it makes sense when you remember that CCP are trying to milk us for our RL ISK, and hope that people will use skill extractors to speed up the training time.



As has been said by several people, there should be no new skill added, and the carrier skill should be the prerequisite for both
dhunpael
#195 - 2016-02-09 13:04:25 UTC
If you remove a skill, can we get the cost of the skillbook refunded?
Anthar Thebess
#196 - 2016-02-09 13:09:35 UTC
dhunpael wrote:
If you remove a skill, can we get the cost of the skillbook refunded?

no

Stop discrimination, help in a fight against terrorists

Show your support to The Cause!
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#197 - 2016-02-09 13:18:44 UTC
Morrigan LeSante wrote:
" you don't get to do tomorrow what you can do today".


Which amount to **** all since CCP's rule was always if you can fly ship X today, you will be able to fly it tomorrow. If you can fly an Caldari carrier today, you will be able to fly it come citadel unless YOU CHOOSE to use the option provided to spec out of it.

If your gonna cry about the "wasted" and "useless" skill for a dedicated X pilot, then remember this is the exact same way they handled to Orca skill shuffle where people were "stuck" with barge skill for example. CCP is following their usual rules quite to the letter in this case but people expect them to deviate from the usual procedure.

It's not unheard of for people to be left with non optimal skills. As was told to Orca pilots back then, your skill are not useless. You just decide not to use them.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#198 - 2016-02-09 13:19:17 UTC
Edward Olmops wrote:
Guys. Really. Yes, some of us have 2 or 5 characters with maxed out skills for several racial capitals. But. We are flying multi-billion ISK capital ships. Into combat, for ratting or just ship spinning.

We are talking about a few hundred mil or a few bil (and the latter only for those among us who spend the same amount each month on subscriptions).
Just go out and make ISK for a few hours - if you are max skill (and I mean player ;-) ), you should know how.
Yes I know that everyone has a Jita alt and likes haggling and free stuff, but we could really do better things than starting a forum war over nothing (like log in and fly spaceships).
I am really confident that no new players or spacepoor people are hurt by the suggested transition procedure.

In short: to solve this whole reimbursement issue...
STOP BEING POOR!


i'm not upset about the cost i'm upset that i now have to wait over 200 days to do what i can do now

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Lugh Crow-Slave
#199 - 2016-02-09 13:20:39 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Morrigan LeSante wrote:
" you don't get to do tomorrow what you can do today".


Which amount to **** all since CCP's rule was always if you can fly ship X today, you will be able to fly it tomorrow. If you can fly an Caldari carrier today, you will be able to fly it come citadel unless YOU CHOOSE to use the option provided to spec out of it.

If your gonna cry about the "wasted" and "useless" skill for a dedicated X pilot, then remember this is the exact same way they handled to Orca skill shuffle where people were "stuck" with barge skill for example. CCP is following their usual rules quite to the letter in this case but people expect them to deviate from the usual procedure.

It's not unheard of for people to be left with non optimal skills. As was told to Orca pilots back then, your skill are not useless. You just decide not to use them.


but the ship i can fly now will not be here when the citadel release hits its getting cut in half. one half is just keeping the same name and model

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Anthar Thebess
#200 - 2016-02-09 13:23:08 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Edward Olmops wrote:
Guys. Really. Yes, some of us have 2 or 5 characters with maxed out skills for several racial capitals. But. We are flying multi-billion ISK capital ships. Into combat, for ratting or just ship spinning.

We are talking about a few hundred mil or a few bil (and the latter only for those among us who spend the same amount each month on subscriptions).
Just go out and make ISK for a few hours - if you are max skill (and I mean player ;-) ), you should know how.
Yes I know that everyone has a Jita alt and likes haggling and free stuff, but we could really do better things than starting a forum war over nothing (like log in and fly spaceships).
I am really confident that no new players or spacepoor people are hurt by the suggested transition procedure.

In short: to solve this whole reimbursement issue...
STOP BEING POOR!


i'm not upset about the cost i'm upset that i now have to wait over 200 days to do what i can do now

EVE 2016 : No poors allowed.

Stop discrimination, help in a fight against terrorists

Show your support to The Cause!